I would agree that parts of the industry are headed that way but I would submit as proof that not all of it is the number of full size trucks and SUVs still powered by normally aspirated V8s with no publicized plans to change. (Tahoes, Suburbans, etc....) However, as it pertains to the North American market, one could argue that direction is shortsighted, considering our newfound oil independence and current efforts to push back on the unrealistic emissions standards set forth by the previous administration. All that aside, I was specifically responding to the absurd assertion that CO2, which all animals and humans exhale, and all plant life basically "inhales", is a toxic pollutant and somehow harmful to the Earth.
300 series rumors???
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I would agree that parts of the industry are headed that way but I would submit as proof that not all of it is the number of full size trucks and SUVs still powered by normally aspirated V8s with no publicized plans to change. (Tahoes, Suburbans, etc....) However, as it pertains to the North American market, one could argue that direction is shortsighted, considering our newfound oil independence and current efforts to push back on the unrealistic emissions standards set forth by the previous administration. All that aside, I was specifically responding to the absurd assertion that CO2, which all animals and humans exhale, and all plant life basically "inhales", is a toxic pollutant and somehow harmful to the Earth.
Science though would disagree with you. I am not a tree hugger or an environmentalist, but an engineer who recognizes that aspect of the data. However, with all the emissions crap on our vehicles, they have a slight contribution
However, everyone is entitled to their opinions. Telling someone their opinion is absurd does not lend to constructive conversations that are required for the tech forum, not for chat though
bloc
SILVER Star
Those NA V8s are impressive, but rely on technology that is nowhere near reliable enough for toyota.
Even Honda had tons of problems with their cylinder deactivation scheme on the 3.5L v6.
Your post just perfectly encapsulated the problem here. Science is not a matter of agreement. You also equated "science" with an opinion. A consensus of opinions does not science make. A consensus of scientists said the Earth was flat. A consensus of scientists said the the Earth was the center of the universe. There is utterly no science whatsoever that shows that there is a causal relationship between CO2 and temperature. None. Off to chat.....
I wasnt tying it to temperature. I was tying it to pollution. I do believe if you are in LA you dont need a lot to know the brown cloud does come from cars. I think there is clear science and evidence of that. It isnt a consensus of opinions. I am not smart enough in weather to know if the hotter weather is just a cycle or caused by humans.
I drive a gas guzzling Land Cruiser. In fact I have two of them and my daughters each have one. If I was really worried about global warming I would sell them and buy a Prius
Relative to science. I build spacecraft that go to other planets for a living. That is what pays for my vehicles and mods. I do believe I need science to do that and consensus of opinions don't work. I need proof as I can't fix things once they launch. Orbit insertion, gravity effects, solar impacts, etc is all science that we have come to understand
My comment to you is that attacks are not allowed in tech. I have no issue with constructive dialogue. You certainly could have politely told him you disagree or you dont see what that has to do with the topic. My wife could easily say the $$ I spend on Cruisers and mods is absurd, but she tells me politely by asking if I am done yet
I drive a gas guzzling Land Cruiser. In fact I have two of them and my daughters each have one. If I was really worried about global warming I would sell them and buy a Prius
Relative to science. I build spacecraft that go to other planets for a living. That is what pays for my vehicles and mods. I do believe I need science to do that and consensus of opinions don't work. I need proof as I can't fix things once they launch. Orbit insertion, gravity effects, solar impacts, etc is all science that we have come to understand
My comment to you is that attacks are not allowed in tech. I have no issue with constructive dialogue. You certainly could have politely told him you disagree or you dont see what that has to do with the topic. My wife could easily say the $$ I spend on Cruisers and mods is absurd, but she tells me politely by asking if I am done yet
Markuson
SILVER Star
There is utterly no science whatsoever that shows that there is a causal relationship between CO2 and temperature. None. Off to chat.....
Maybe consider inserting beer in mouth with Ken BEFORE railing away...
If you slow down long enough for that...you’ll discover Ken (@Romer) is a reasonable, intelligent, & considerate dude... & not at all prone to thoughtless anything. There are lots of hot-heads on both sides of that stuff, but Ken ain’t one of em. Since I’m too young to drink beer... ima go have some chocolate milk whilst y’all down a couple brews and become bros...haha.
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Uggh, I didnt attack anyone. I attacked the practice of asserting one's opinion as fact. The "CO2 bad, humans are killing the planet" narrative has become a religion for these people and Im sick of them preaching it to everyone and stating that anyone who doesnt BELIEVE it, or agree with their OPINION, is "evil" and some actually saying that "denial" should be criminalized! THAT is fascism, Im sick of it and I damn sure dont want to be preached at in a tech section of an automotive forum. This is where I come for a respite from all of that. You said yourself it was his opinion. Yes of course we are free to have our own opinions, but when someone states their opinion as fact and imply that anyone who doesnt agree with it is wrong, theres a problem. It's the asserting of one's opinion as fact that I attacked. I didnt attack him personally. When I initially told him that his "assertion was absurd and to take his BS and go preach elsewhere, this is a car forum", and you deleted my post, I rephrased it asking him to keep the preaching to himself. I dont think preaching has a place in tech and others obviously agree.
Sac Cerevisiae
Reid
I’d say it’s time to lock this thread or move it to chit chat.
But back to the "300 series" and Johnathan Ward's interview. Something jumped out at me. He talked about how they wanted to get him to consult on the last 1000 units. He also talked about how the Toyota exec told him because of the current infrastructure, that if they decontent the LC, the price would actually go up, and used the example of the taking out the refrigerated console. Well, isn't that exactly what happened with the Heritage Edition? They took out the coolbox, and the price went up. They are only making 1200 of them. So I'm now left wondering, is the Heritage Edition the LAST of the Land Cruiser, as we know it, in the US? Im starting to think it IS going to be killed off here.
Thank you
Hey @Romer did I ever tell you about that lake in Cameroon? Very factually interesting.
And yes the Land Cruiser goes byebye, but we keep the Lexus variant.
I dont believe you have, but doubt it is relevant to this thread
As a teenager, I thought one day I might possibly marry a supermodel. As an adult, I think one day I might possibly have a chance to own a stripped down 200. Let me have my dreams man, they make my life better.
You can have a stripped down 200. If now - move to another country.
in 2033 you can import the 200 you want.
Sac Cerevisiae
Reid
Unless you absolutely needed to purchase new, what's the allure of having a stripped down Cruiser? You can purchase used after someone else takes the depreciation hit and you're left with a luxury vehicle that still has years of great mechanical life.
If you dislike some of the interior appointments, then remove then and install what you want. Replace with cloth seat covers, delete the DVD screens, install an aftermarket radio head unit etc.
Sure it would be great to have a bare-bones Cruiser at a lower starting price, but the margins for Toyota are in the upgraded luxury items that justify their markup.
If you dislike some of the interior appointments, then remove then and install what you want. Replace with cloth seat covers, delete the DVD screens, install an aftermarket radio head unit etc.
Sure it would be great to have a bare-bones Cruiser at a lower starting price, but the margins for Toyota are in the upgraded luxury items that justify their markup.
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I keep hearing talk of stripped down cruiser. How can Toyota sell a LC at $55k which is 35% less than the $85k they sell for now. Can they remove 35% of the vehicle to get there? Remove some leather and the Nav but you still need back up camera, so maybe $3k-$4k right there. Remove cool box, make 3rd row seats an option, make rear AC, heated and cooled seats, side steps, roof rack, sun roof all options. Seems like $75k with no options. Maybe the rest down to $55k is just pure profit?
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Markuson
SILVER Star
Yep! Pretty sure automaker’s biggest profits have almost always been centered around “higher end” trim levels they make a killing on. There really isn’t much motivation out there to make to make stripped versions of anything save for maybe huge fleet vehicles like bare bones work trucks.
Stripped versions save manufactures NOTHING for shipping costs...engines, steel, aluminum, welding, machining, drive trains...and ALL the most expensive parts of manufacture.
So... strippy or not, ALL the heavy-lifting parts of a Cruiser stay for them...
-Take away the silly $3000 screens (that probably cost them maybe 20% of that) and profits dry up pretty quickly, along with their motivation to endure EPA hassles our the wazoo.
Watch TV ads or the fine print in newspaper ads (anyone still getting the newspaper?).
Dealership adverts on TV flash SUPER cheapo, strippy versions of various cars to get you there. BUT...you read the ad’s fine print and it often says something like “2 vehicles at this price...” -The Rear are NOT stripped versions. In other words...they make diddly squat selling bare bones cars. The big $$ is in the upgrades.
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Sadly - These are all good points. Guess that's why LX out sells LC almost 3:1. Now that I'm in an LX, I find myself very aware of every LX I see on the road. Almost always Mom cruisers. Guess that speaks to the durability of these vehicles. I know my kids can trash just about anything!
God bless all the Moms who drive them so we can buy them later.
I guess that's the thing. Everyone says they want a stripped down Land Cruiser but when it comes down to it if you had a $50-60k stripped down Land Cruiser w/o infotainment, w/o heated and cooled leather seats, w/o three zone climate, w/o memory seats, w/o the cool box, w/o sun roof, w/o xyz creature comfort who would actually spend that much money for it? You look at a similarly priced competitor or Sequoia that have all of the bells and whistles and people would reconsider the value prospect. A stripped down cruiser is offered in other countries because it's needed and they can sell. I'm not sure people want a stripped down Land Cruiser, they just want it to be cheaper.
