CharlieS
GOLD Star
I'd buy one. I don't value those bells and whistles. My 80's didn't have them, my 100 didn't, and I don't need them on my 200.
300 series rumors??? (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Rando Kuruza
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Markuson
SILVER Star
My 200 is actually an off-road beast....BUT...
...
What I’d happily do without are the goofy electronics that so easily “decide” disable the vehicle due to unrelated circuitry issues or sensor complaints.
Example: one wheel speed sensor went out.
So.... I CAN’T SHIFT INTO 4-LO.
—Not because there is anything wrong with my transfer case...nothing wrong my gears/transmission...but because some little non-essential sensor makes the ECU decide to lock me out. Good thing I wasn’t at the bottom of an obstacle...
Dumbest thing of all about the 200...as there are a ZILLION random codes that can lock you out of essential tools in the field... So... I keep an OBD2 with me. Still...it’s an unfortunate decision by Mr. T. Should at least be an override.
That....is far more annoying than an unused cool-box...
...
What I’d happily do without are the goofy electronics that so easily “decide” disable the vehicle due to unrelated circuitry issues or sensor complaints.
Example: one wheel speed sensor went out.
So.... I CAN’T SHIFT INTO 4-LO.
—Not because there is anything wrong with my transfer case...nothing wrong my gears/transmission...but because some little non-essential sensor makes the ECU decide to lock me out. Good thing I wasn’t at the bottom of an obstacle...
Dumbest thing of all about the 200...as there are a ZILLION random codes that can lock you out of essential tools in the field... So... I keep an OBD2 with me. Still...it’s an unfortunate decision by Mr. T. Should at least be an override.
That....is far more annoying than an unused cool-box...
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I don’t disagree this is the direction the industry is going based on government mileage standards. But the complete dislocation from reality in the environmental movement is hard to believe. Consumer auto’s represent 7% of global CO2 emissions. Consumer auto’s in the USA represents 3% of global CO2 emissions. If we all stopped driving tomorrow, 97% of CO2 emissions would continue. The biggest driver of man made CO2 is electricity generation, and the only scalable way to significantly reduce this is nuclear...which the green lobby wants to eliminate.
In any case, the total sales of Land Cruisers worldwide is bound to have an impact on global Co2 emissions that rounds to 0%.
I’m not a climate skeptic, in fact I think it’s a major issue. But the green lobby is either insincere or amazingly stupid in their priorities if they actually want to lower emissions.
Wait. This is precisely the 200 Series that I'd buy tomorrow : Cloth, cruise control, air conditioning, and a good sound system. That's it. Like my 80, but simpler--roll windows even.
One that, like my 80, provides 27 years of service unfettered by needless (and expensive) gadgetry failing before the drivetrain--save perhaps for a dumb screen through which to display (the endless evolution of new) phones.
It was deflating to hear Ward's talk. Those last 1000 units could well be the Heritage Edition. For the Land Cruiser's U.S. demise to come at the hand of what is essentially a cultural miscommunication is like a tragic comedy.
The success of Wrangler and Gladiator--300,000 units combined in 2019?--shows demand for what could be 70 series derivatives, had Toyota not misread the market or been willing to go forward by going backward with more utilitarian models in the U.S.
Toyota should put Ward in charge of re-launching the Land Cruiser brand in the U.S. with the 300--Land Cruisers that return to the core values of simplicity, reliability, durability and longevity while employing inevitable low carbon technologies.
Toyota sold 380,000 4Runners and Tacoma’s combined last year. Jeep should be worried.
Mods, can we move this to Chit Chat? I’m tired of reading how horrible my 200 is in the 200 forum.
HDJdreams
SILVER Star
What I’d happily do without are the goofy electronics that so easily disable the vehicle due to unrelated circuitry issues.
Example: one wheel speed sensor went out.
So.... I CAN’T SHIFT INTO 4-LO.
—Not because there is anything wrong with my transfer case...nothing wrong my gears/transmission...but because some little non-essential sensor makes the ECU decide to lock me out. Good thing I wasn’t at the bottom of an obstacle...
Dumbest thing of all about the 200...as there are a ZILLION random codes that can lock you out of essential tools in the field.
That....is far more problematic than an unused cool-box...
X 2!!!!
Imagine if an 80 series disabled low range, elockers, and limited speed to 25-30 mph every time P0401 or other trivial CEL came up. They wouldn’t be the Overland icons they are today.
I also have a ghost CEL that pops up randomly and throws the 200 into limp mode. The most important tool to keep in my 200 by far is the WiFi OBD2 reader and a scanner app on my phone.
I find the over zealous limp mode locking you out of low range and traction control unforgivable on the nameplate of what was the pinnacle of off-road reliability.
Toyota sold a total of 155830 200's in 2018
(124236 LC + 31594 LX )
41539 70x
168867 Prado
29651 Lexus GX
*source Discover the Top 1300 best-selling cars in the world
It might be all doom and gloom in the US but land cruiser sales have never been better.
(124236 LC + 31594 LX )
41539 70x
168867 Prado
29651 Lexus GX
*source Discover the Top 1300 best-selling cars in the world
It might be all doom and gloom in the US but land cruiser sales have never been better.
So what data do we have that shows the electronics make the 200 dispatch less reliability that say an 80 or a 40? While it’s common to think that modern vehicles are ‘too complex’, I’ve yet to see a case on a 200 where something electronic has stranded the truck. Do we have any metric that actually confirms this conclusion?
bloc
SILVER Star
*COUGH* (PHH, head gaskets, fan clutches, heater T’s)
Anyone who thinks that Jonathan Ward would build a less expensive Land Cruiser if given the last 1,000 units is delusional.
If you think the 200 is a bloated luxury pig with electronics waiting to fail and strand you in the jungles of Africa then go buy an 80 series and let TLC/Icon build your Cruiser for an additional $200,000.
If you think the 200 is a bloated luxury pig with electronics waiting to fail and strand you in the jungles of Africa then go buy an 80 series and let TLC/Icon build your Cruiser for an additional $200,000.
If you’re trying to prove that the 200 isn’t a reliable overlanding rig @Markuson and his rig is the last datapoint you want to use as evidence.
Ha! Anyone with an extra 200K to drop will get whatever they want regardless. If I won the lottery, that's who I would be calling. The real conversation is the direction of Toyota in the US market moving forward. Keep in mind, the most remote point in the US is less then 25 miles from a road. The idea of being stranded in a 1st world country is kinda crazy. Modern electronics might make things more complicated, but they also provide a very reliable platform with a lot of diagnostics. The user facing electronics are garbage. We all know that. Even Toyota has finally given up and moving to Apple carplay and Android Auto, so the dumb terminal concept is already happening.
REAL overlanding would mean leaving our first world borders driving to places where the ECU's would likely be tossed in the garbage. In that case, a 70 or even a 40 series would probably be the answer anyway, but also appropriate for the market. Lets say you make it as far south as Mexico and as far north a Canada. You could have no problem getting what you need in both of those locations. You gotta go a LONG way before many of the arguments make much sense.
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False. Sourcing LC parts, at least in the northern half of Mexico, is not no problem.
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Are you speaking from experience? I spend a lot of time in Cabo. Lots of Toyota guys down there. But then, never really had a need for anything major either. I could be wrong.
Fair enough. My family are original owners of a 92 (a more primitive beast that predated those chronic problems) that, since the get go, has spent lots of time in Sonora and BC and BCS each year. I've been stranded once in 27 years (alternator). She still goes weeks into Mexico each year.
To be clear, I hope I didn't come off as a complainer about the 200 in its current form. That wasn't my intent. It's a beautiful, capable, incredibly comfortable and reliable truck that, for lack of a spec'd down version, will likely replace my 80 when that time comes, being the second and last Land Cruiser in my life.
But, having lived first-hand the arc of a Land Cruiser's aging toward the three decade mark, I'd prefer skip the various electro and luxury doo-dads that fail sooner but also cost more. That's all.
Yes.
And we are talking 200 series right? Because I could go to Toyota Cabo and order a new Landcruiser same spec as US.
My experience pertains to my vehicle across many years in rural Mexico. Toyota dealers in Cabo (or Mexicali or Hermosillo) hasn't corresponded to easy parts availability elsewhere. That requires driving a 1990s Chevy pickup.
Wait. Aren't you in an 80? Isn't that the other side of this discussion? The
300 should be more like the 80?
Markuson
SILVER Star
We weren’t even sure we’d find an open gas station at one point in Baja... Buying parts down there would have been a major problem.
As for reliability... my rig has been super solid despite harsh use. I do dislike the error reporting being deliberately linked to functions, and believe it’s overly cautious as a Toyota decision. but I can clear those, and have never been stranded...ever...in my 200.
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