300 series rumors??? (2 Viewers)

[JohnPW]

For what it’s worth the chicken tax doesn’t/wouldn’t apply to the 200 and 300 LCs (unless it was offered in some “cargo” configuration). It only applies to light trucks and cargo vehicles. The LC sees the same import tariff that the 4Runner sees (between 2.5% and 4% which is pretty low for the vehicle import tariff list for countries).

Your point on Toyota’s general refresh cycles and market decision tomfoolery stands. It seems they’re successful in their SUV market (in the US) in spite of themselves. It was pretty well known industry info that the 4Runner as we know it (j150 platform) was to be discontinued and switched into a cross over following it’s mid cycle refresh in 2014. Sales picked up and Toyota seemed happy to keep raking it in. Now they’ve pivoted completely to offer an allegedly capable 6th gen as a successor.

Toyota’s refresh cycles really don’t make much sense but given that they’re profits are consistently fine they probably don’t care. Additionally I don’t think I’ve seen a single ad or promo from a non enthusiast source on the LC since I’ve been old enough to drive. Hopefully the new gen Tundra and Sequoia bring enough to the table to keep enthusiasts happy and sell.

Ultimately, in my opinion, the LC doing so poorly here is a self fulfilling prophesy from Toyota itself. No marketing. Decontenting/lame refresh cycles (not LC specific). Cannibalize sales with redundant product. Then blame the market when it didn’t do so hot.

Its irritating to think that while the 300 GR is all over Russia or some s*** I’ll see Grand Wagoneers fly off the shelf locally.

OA

I see a lot of conflicting reports on this. The Forbes article below implies the 25% tariff applies to full size SUV’s as well. Which would explain why the European brand SUV’s are all produced in the US or Mexico.

Trump Will Keep Tariffs On European SUVs

Trump says he will keep steep tariffs on European car imports

www.forbes.com

Here’s another article stating the 25% tariff applies to SUV’s:That 25% U.S.A. import tariff on all pickups and fancy SUVs costs you big money, because it stops foreign competition - https://freddonaldson.com/2019/06/18/for-the-past-55-years-americans-probably-paid-an-extra-25-to-buy-pickup-trucks-or-suvs-thanks-to-democrat-lyndon-johnson/


I also found an article stating that Ford is facing $1.3 billion in taxes and fines for importing Transit vans from Europe without paying the chicken tax. Does someone have clarity on whether this tariff applies to SUV’s?

 

[foeix]

Does someone have clarity on whether this tariff applies to SUV’s?

It does not apply... simple as that.

 

[omar rva]

It does not apply... simple as that.

This.

I see a lot of conflicting reports on this. The Forbes article below implies the 25% tariff applies to full size SUV’s as well. Which would explain why the European brand SUV’s are all produced in the US or Mexico.

Trump Will Keep Tariffs On European SUVs

Trump says he will keep steep tariffs on European car imports

www.forbes.com

Here’s another article stating the 25% tariff applies to SUV’s:That 25% U.S.A. import tariff on all pickups and fancy SUVs costs you big money, because it stops foreign competition - https://freddonaldson.com/2019/06/18/for-the-past-55-years-americans-probably-paid-an-extra-25-to-buy-pickup-trucks-or-suvs-thanks-to-democrat-lyndon-johnson/


I also found an article stating that Ford is facing $1.3 billion in taxes and fines for importing Transit vans from Europe without paying the chicken tax. Does someone have clarity on whether this tariff applies to SUV’s?

I saw the same conflicting reports and decided to bite (maybe that's the bourbon talking).

Regarding the transit connect vans - that's true and has nothing to do with the SUV aspect. They crux of that issue is that they're importing passenger vans with the intent of them becoming cargo vans (which would have otherwise been subject to a 25% tariff if they were imported in their final state).

Regarding the 25% tariff on SUV's - the vast majority of articles I see that state this are from late 2018 to early 2019 when 45 was considering keeping or raising tariffs on imported vehicles. They conflate light trucks to mean SUVs when in reality - they aren't in the same world unless they're meant for cargo (see ford's transit connect). Rather than other news articles I jumped to the source: Harmonized Tariff Schedule Search - https://hts.usitc.gov

Chapter 87 (pdf attached) goes into detail in part 8703 regarding passenger vehicles. The dumbed down version is 25% doesn't kick in until you're transporting 16 or more people, or you're transporting goods (e.g. a truck or cargo van) ,or has a special purpose (e.g. ag, industrial, construction etc.), or if you're importing pretty much any vehicle part (e.g. an axel, door, etc).

OA

 

[Bludozer]

The GR looks so goodView attachment 2700261

View attachment 2700263

View attachment 2700264

View attachment 2700265

It still looks like a bloated Highlander. Why do I like it?

 

[Dashome]

Alright, I may have a somewhat uninformed although provocative opinion. Before you lose your cool.... I own a 200.

I think the writing was on the wall with the TNGA platform migration. While it's sensible to discontinue the product line based on sales.... The rest of the world doesn't get the Sequoia. So in 2021 US had the LC200, Tundra, and Sequoia.... Of which two shared the same platform. So in 2022 how would they go about differentiating a LC300 and a Sequoia TRD pro from a platform or mechanical perspective. Nevermind, maintaining halo status on the LC given that you'll likely be paying more for less given the anticipated mechanical differences of a unified platform. Furthermore, would it be blasphemy if the made a smaller GR version of the Sequoia that essentially would be a LC300 with the Sequoia name? Would you buy a Sequoia GR? Honestly, I think that the Sequoia GR is likely far fetched in the states; however, it makes sense operationally for them to focus on trying to win over the current LC crowd with Sequoia or 4r TRD pros. I think US LC300 buyers would be relegated to die hard purists that insist on the LC name as opposed to people shopping with their brain. Let's also consider the 4r has continued to grow in size year over year, so there's even less differentiation between the 4r TRD Pro, non-existent 300, and Sequoia TRD Pro from a specs perspective. Thanks for coming to my TED talk on this topic. Signed, a LC snob.

 

[milesc3]

Irrelevant, as it is taking sales away from the LC in the US market. If no Sequoia, I bet the LC would still be here.

Exactly----the Sequoia and the LX570 cannibalize the LC market. Sequoia because it's larger and cheaper and LX because Americans are soft and like things cushy and are luxury brand name sensitive---especially when it's basically the same price. For me, I like the understated/"stealth wealth" nature of the LC. I also just like how it looks more then the LX570. Most people in the US don't understand how mechanically awesome and off road capable the LC is, like they do in OZ or EMEA. It's a Toyota marketing problem and a US consumer problem.

 

[TonyP]

Thinking a large amount of people are cross-shopping the LX and the Sequoia against the LC is not correct.
Few people are cross shopping an ES and Camry yet they're the "same".

 

[Stevesnj]

Wonder if the GR can handle 35's ?

 

[kreiten]

Wonder if the GR can handle 35's ?

The KDSS bar no longer appears to be a problem for larger tires based on the new shape, that's a win!

 

[MSU LC200]

My 2c...
I think Toyota will figure out a way to bring the LC300 back as a niche off-roader that is more capable and masculine than the Sequoia, but not as luxurious as the LX. The GR Sport looks like it fits the bill, and a note in the launch video did say that model will be released later. Plus Toyota just debuted “GR” models in other North American segments so this market will recognize the badge. I can see the Sequoia price range $55-$75k, the GR Sport LC300 somewhere around $80k, and the LX $95-100k. That would satisfy 3 completely different SUV customers without stealing any market share from the other. I think it boils down to Toyota being in the business of selling as many vehicles as they can, and historically every Land Cruiser imported to the US has sold.

Edit to add: Also keep in mind that Toyota has skipped years importing Land Cruisers to the US as recently as 2012. So it’s not out of the question that the US would miss out on a 2022 LC300, but get the 2023

 

[kendrickdlr]

My 2c...
I think Toyota will figure out a way to bring the LC300 back as a niche off-roader that is more capable and masculine than the Sequoia, but not as luxurious as the LX. The GR Sport looks like it fits the bill, and a note in the launch video did say that model will be released later. Plus Toyota just debuted “GR” models in other North American segments so this market will recognize the badge. I can see the Sequoia price range $55-$75k, the GR Sport LC300 somewhere around $80k, and the LX $95-100k. That would satisfy 3 completely different SUV customers without stealing any market share from the other. I think it boils down to Toyota being in the business of selling as many vehicles as they can, and historically every Land Cruiser imported to the US has sold.

Edit to add: Also keep in mind that Toyota has skipped years importing Land Cruisers to the US as recently as 2012. So it’s not out of the question that the US would miss out on a 2022 LC300, but get the 2023

The GR Sport is gonna cost $100k+

 

[kendrickdlr]

They need to redesign the Sequoia, make a Lexus variant based on it to compete more directly against Escalade, QX80, and Navigator (this is the LX’s biggest failure — a Lexus “Escalade“ would sell 20k+ a year easily). Axe the LX altogether (all you LX lovers would riot, but seeing as it most likely cannibalized Land Cruiser sales, IDGAF). Bring back the LC300 in a slightly more basic form than we’re used to, slot it at around $75K with 3 distinct trim levels, and boom we‘re golden with virtually zero confliction across platforms and a way higher potential for sales

 

[ntsaint]

Good lord. Toyota did not SKIP 2012.

 

[cahill]

Toyota’s refresh cycles really don’t make much sense but given that their profits are consistently fine they probably don’t care. Additionally I don’t think I’ve seen a single ad or promo from a non enthusiast source on the LC since I’ve been old enough to drive. ......

I am not sure the long refresh cycles are a downside. I personally hate buying something and then having a "new version" be sold the following year or two or 3 that "fixes" a problem with the previous version. Longer product cycles means longer parts availability, allows for longer product research and development and testing and ultimately a better product when the next version is made. I would have to agree that lack of advertising for the land cruiser is a contributing factor in lack of sales in the US.

In speaking with people in general about cars is that they have been too used to owning unreliable vehicles and when a vehicle starts getting to 75,000 miles they start thinking it is time to sell their 'old vehicle' and buy a new one because it is going to start to break soon. I don't think they are talking about just maintenance items, but about real problems with the vehicle because this was my experience too with American made vehicles. The vehicles produced now may be more reliable than the ones I owned but I am not about to buy another US made vehicle to find out if they are making them better than before.

I am very happy with what I currently own. People are shocked when I tell them that I have 230,000 miles on my vehicle and that I am expecting it to do just fine for another 200,000 or more and am not concerned driving it with my family on long trips. This is why these vehicles retain value.

Reliability, repairability, and parts availability long term are more important to me by far when looking at a vehicle and manufacturer that I will buy from; not quick refresh cycles.

 

[MSU LC200]

Good lord. Toyota did not SKIP 2012.

I don't know of any 2012 200s, in the US at least. Whether the rest of the world got a 2012 model or not, I do not know. My point was, just because Toyota said we aren't getting a 2022 here doesn't mean that we will never see the 300 land on our shores.

 

[OSS]

Toyota said that the Land Cruiser has been discontinued in North Anerica.
Direct quote:
""The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a legendary name for more than 60 years," Toyota said in a statement. "While it will be discontinued in the United States after the 2021 model year, we remain committed to the large SUV segment and will continue to explore future products that celebrate the Land Cruiser’s rich off-road history. We encourage loyal enthusiasts and intrepid adventurers to stay tuned for future developments.""

 

[MSU LC200]

Toyota said that the Land Cruiser has been discontinued in North Anerica.
Direct quote:
""The Toyota Land Cruiser has been a legendary name for more than 60 years," Toyota said in a statement. "While it will be discontinued in the United States after the 2021 model year, we remain committed to the large SUV segment and will continue to explore future products that celebrate the Land Cruiser’s rich off-road history. We encourage loyal enthusiasts and intrepid adventurers to stay tuned for future developments.""

I read that too, but the last part leaves the door open.

 

[ntsaint]

I don't know of any 2012 200s, in the US at least. Whether the rest of the world got a 2012 model or not, I do not know. My point was, just because Toyota said we aren't getting a 2022 here doesn't mean that we will never see the 300 land on our shores.

2012 japan tsunami - Google Search

 

[xswl]

Currently driving a LX470 and haven't been interested in getting a newer LC/LX until the 300. Would prefer a split tail gate, but everything else looks really good especially the fold down 3rd row and getting better mileage (I'd even get the hybrid). The GR looks great and I would spend the extra $$ to get that. If only it was available in the US.

 

[xswl]

Looks like rumor is that the 300 comes to US only as LX600 LX 570 and LX 600 Sport, F SPORT and VIP Trims Leaked - https://lexusenthusiast.com/2021/06/09/lx-570-and-600-sport-f-sport-and-vip-trims-leaked/ with the GR being the F-Sport. That front grill though... ugh...