3 Row vs. 4 Row Radiator (1 Viewer)

[DirtaddictLC80]

I have an older model CSF that is at the radiator shop getting cleaned. The Rad guy said it's 3 row, but he could upgrade it to a 4 Row and make the rad a little deeper...going from 2 inches to 2.5 inches, and it won't cause any issues fit-wise in the engine bay.

He said that it would help with cooling at the extremes. He also said that this CSF rad is durable and would be worth a recore vs. buying a new rad.

What's everyone thoughts on a recore, going from 3 row to 4 row? Will this give me a real improvement in the cooling system?

 

[inkpot]

What’s this going to cost for a re-core?

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

What’s this going to cost for a re-core?

Approx. $600 for a fully refurbished rad (fixing a few leaks I had) with the "upgraded" core. In addition to the extra row, there are more fins and bigger tubes.

 

[HARDGEAR]

Approx. $600 for a fully refurbished rad (fixing a few leaks I had) with the "upgraded" core. In addition to the extra row, there are more fins and bigger tubes.

That guy must be a great joint welder . Just fix the one you have, and, or buy an oem one for far under 6 bills.
Other brands of rads and sellers are around here to.
Radiator Assembly - Toyota (16400-66081) | Toyota Parts

https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-16400...ota:land+cruiser&keywords=Oem+Toyota+radiator

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

That guy must be a great joint welder . Just fix the one you have, and, or buy an oem one for far under 6 bills.
Other brands of rads and sellers are around here to.

It's welding and also increasing the width plus a new 4-row core with more fins and bigger tubes. So, theoretically, it will be better performing than a new stocker that is only 2 or 3 rows. Curious to know if there are real world improvements over and above just throwing in a new rad without the mods.

 

[HARDGEAR]

If you want more coolant capacity go for it!
But beyond normal or xtra hot baking conditions, why else do a 4 core custom radiator?
Head gasket paranoia? Crawler? Baja desert race truck?
No expense spared my ideal set up would be diesel with a xtra fat five core.

I’m sure a 4 core rad on a 1fz would no doubt be beneficial. But I’m to cheap.
Someone else will have to elaborate on this since your in hot sunny soCal.

 

[-Spike-]

Theoretically it should give you more capacity for heat removal. Realistically the thermostat will regulate the heat, so the actual temp will not change. It would give you more headroom, so if the radiator becomes partially clogged it would still be sufficient to keep up with the load. I'd only do something like this if the available radiators couldn't keep up with the load. $600 is about $470 more than I spent on my last radiator, which has no issues keeping up with Arizona climate and my mods. I'd rather replace it every few years as a maintenance item than spend that kind of money and hope it lasts 20 years.

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

If you want more coolant capacity go for it!
But beyond normal or xtra hot baking conditions, why else do a 4 core custom radiator?
Head gasket paranoia? Crawler? Baja desert race truck?
No expense spared my ideal set up would be diesel with a xtra fat five core.

I’m sure a 4 core rad on a 1fz would no doubt be beneficial. But I’m to cheap.
Someone else will have to elaborate on this since your in hot sunny soCal.

Yep, it gets hot around here. I don't have major issues running around town, but in the summer, loaded heavy for camping in over 100 degree weather, running trails in the desert and climbing over mountain ranges at 3300+ rpm...these things can really put a cooling system to the test.

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

Theoretically it should give you more capacity for heat removal. Realistically the thermostat will regulate the heat, so the actual temp will not change. It would give you more headroom, so if the radiator becomes partially clogged it would still be sufficient to keep up with the load. I'd only do something like this if the available radiators couldn't keep up with the load. $600 is about $470 more than I spent on my last radiator, which has no issues keeping up with Arizona climate and my mods. I'd rather replace it every few years as a maintenance item than spend that kind of money and hope it lasts 20 years.

Good feedback. My cooling issues are probably a result of a partially clogged rad. Rodding it would probably get me back the performance I've lost over time. Or, I could treat the rad like a consumable and just replace it every 2-4 years. The price for a new rad almost makes it a no brainer, although I like the CSF all metal tank. Not sure if they make those any more, and if they do, are probably in the 300-400 dollar range.

 

[flintknapper]

Good feedback. My cooling issues are probably a result of a partially clogged rad. Rodding it would probably get me back the performance I've lost over time. Or, I could treat the rad like a consumable and just replace it every 2-4 years. The price for a new rad almost makes it a no brainer, although I like the CSF all metal tank. Not sure if they make those any more, and if they do, are probably in the 300-400 dollar range.

^^^^^

Yes, the CSF is still available. It is what I put in mine.

Paid about $375.00 for it in 2013. Still working great.

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

Well, went ahead and upgraded the CSF to 4-rows and increased the width thickness. So far so good. Temps are down but I haven't really taxed the system yet.

While I was in there, I also did the rear heater bypass. The hoses to the rear heater underneath the truck were very brittle.

Here's a few pics of the rad being built. The guy in the pic is the owner of San Jose Radiator. He runs one of the few places in the area that specializes in this sort of work.

CSF Rad Recore


CSF Rad Recore-Tanked

 

[inkpot]

Curious how you/he made it wider? And it still fits inside the factory brackets? I have done a ton of radiator jobs on 80's, and all of them have been really tight for width between the brackets.

 

[-Spike-]

Curious how you/he made it wider? And it still fits inside the factory brackets? I have done a ton of radiator jobs on 80's, and all of them have been really tight for width between the brackets.

Pretty sure he made it thicker, not 'wider'.

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

Pretty sure he made it thicker, not 'wider'.

Sorry, you're right. Correction made. Width is the same. He was able to increase the thickness of the rad from 2" to 2.5"

 

[Qball]

Before you did all the work have you check/replaced the fan clutch? I was in Death Valley in 115 degree heat and had ac running with koyo 2 row aluminum radiator.

 

[baldilocks]

Good move on keeping the well built csf. We live in a “throw away world” where jackasses blame the previous generations for our “global warming” or whatever the turds are calling it these days, when, in fact, it’s their “buy junk and replace it much more often” mentality that has manufacturing (read pollution production) at an ever increasing rate.

Would anyone like to guess how much pollution a container ship belches into the atmosphere during one trip across the ocean?

I’m surprised that an actual radiator repair shop still exists in this junky ass throw away world.

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

Before you did all the work have you check/replaced the fan clutch? I was in Death Valley in 115 degree heat and had ac running with koyo 2 row aluminum radiator.

I checked the fan clutch and it was still "good". I replaced it a few years ago so it is still relatively new. However, those blue fan clutches aren't that strong out of the box, so changing out to a heavier weight fluid is on my list, along with a snorkel for cooler intake air. I've seen IAT over 150 degrees F, traveling long distance in the summer.

My original diagnosis, and what started me on this process, was that my rad was clogged. I was seeing some gray sludge and wanted it out of my cooling system. I bet I could have just had the rad hot tanked/rodded out, refreshed the coolant, and things would have improved. Time will tell if the modifications to the rad will make a significant difference over and above what a simple cleaning/coolant refresh will do. If it does, it will be at the extremes of usage. Summer is coming up so I will have a chance to test it.

 

[Qball]

I checked the fan clutch and it was still "good". I replaced it a few years ago so it is still relatively new. However, those blue fan clutches aren't that strong out of the box, so changing out to a heavier weight fluid is on my list, along with a snorkel for cooler intake air. I've seen IAT over 150 degrees F, traveling long distance in the summer.

My original diagnosis, and what started me on this process, was that my rad was clogged. I was seeing some gray sludge and wanted it out of my cooling system. I bet I could have just had the rad hot tanked/rodded out, refreshed the coolant, and things would have improved. Time will tell if the modifications to the rad will make a significant difference over and above what a simple cleaning/coolant refresh will do. If it does, it will be at the extremes of usage. Summer is coming up so I will have a chance to test it.

First thing anyone should do on the 80s when there is cooling issues is to change out the fluid in the blue fan clutch per landtank instruction or buy the landtank one from @NLXTACY, even OEM fan clutch does NOT have proper amount and type of fluid for hot summer asreas.

Second if you have cooling issues(get a scagauge or ultragauge) then switch to aluminum radiotors like the guys in Arizona, if they don’t have their cooling system figured out then no one does. They wheel with AC on in AZ summer that’s well over 100 degrees.

Word of caution, now that you made the radiator thicker and if you do add 20 or 30k fluid in the clutch the tip of fan blades could make contact with the radiator, thoroughly test it at 4000 rpm with fan clutch fully locked before you go to middle of no where and slice your radiator open. Sometimes there are reasons people stick with tried and true.

 

[Dave 2000]

Whilst fluid capacity has risen it does not follow that cooling will be better. It has been mentioned in previous posts that the thicker core is additional obstruction to airflow, unsure if the additional cost versus a new OEM unit is a plus?

Rsgards

Dave

 

[DirtaddictLC80]

Whilst fluid capacity has risen it does not follow that cooling will be better. It has been mentioned in previous posts that the thicker core is additional obstruction to airflow, unsure if the additional cost versus a new OEM unit is a plus?

Rsgards

Dave

I'm no expert on this, but the recore netted 4 rows, more fins and larger tubes. My understanding is that this provides more surface area for cooling. I agree though that going thicker doesn't necessarily give you better cooling. I think it really depends on several factors.

And to your point, I really don't know if the performance increase is significant enough to warrant the cost. I won't know until this summer.

Probably the most logical approach for someone wanting to improve cooling performance would be to follow these steps:

1. Fresh Coolant and Clean Rad (or new one)
2. Upgraded Fan Clutch

Then maybe a Snorkel for cooler IAT.

Rather than new radiator, I decided to try to do a deep clean on it, and that is where the scope creep happened. I'm interested to see if the recore will improve performance at the extremes.