285/60/18 vs 285/6518 KO2

[bloc]

I documented a 2.5mpg drop (accounting for diameter difference) at 73-74mph over many, many tanks, going from stock p285/60r18 to LT285/65r18 KO2s. Also the ride quality dropped dramatically compared to stock, mostly due to the increased required cold pressure, but also from the extra weight. Brand new stock shocks quickly became overwhelmed by the drastically higher tire spring rate. Many people disagree with me on this.. but I noticed it. Also my ride quality and mileage got a lot better when I switched to even taller P-metric tires on 17” rock warriors... similar weight to stock setup, stock pressure, stock ride quality and mileage.


Mileage before KO2s.. 17-18. With: 14-15. Back to p-metric ATs: 17

 

[Madtiger]

I documented a 2.5mpg drop (accounting for diameter difference) at 73-74mph over many, many tanks, going from stock p285/60r18 to LT285/65r18 KO2s. Also the ride quality dropped dramatically compared to stock, mostly due to the increased required cold pressure, but also from the extra weight. Brand new stock shocks quickly became overwhelmed by the drastically higher tire spring rate. Many people disagree with me on this.. but I noticed it. Also my ride quality and mileage got a lot better when I switched to even taller P-metric tires on 17” rock warriors... similar weight to stock setup, stock pressure, stock ride quality and mileage.


Mileage before KO2s.. 17-18. With: 14-15. Back to p-metric ATs: 17

Yeah that is why I am seriously considering going with Defender in stock size. I want to get back my mileage.

 

[SQRRRL]

I documented a 2.5mpg drop (accounting for diameter difference) at 73-74mph over many, many tanks, going from stock p285/60r18 to LT285/65r18 KO2s. Also the ride quality dropped dramatically compared to stock, mostly due to the increased required cold pressure, but also from the extra weight. Brand new stock shocks quickly became overwhelmed by the drastically higher tire spring rate. Many people disagree with me on this.. but I noticed it. Also my ride quality and mileage got a lot better when I switched to even taller P-metric tires on 17” rock warriors... similar weight to stock setup, stock pressure, stock ride quality and mileage.


Mileage before KO2s.. 17-18. With: 14-15. Back to p-metric ATs: 17

So true. I have a light duty Tough Dog suspension with BBS wheels on Michelin P275/65/18 tires. Performance feels like OEM. It’s a fantastic set up with an OEM performance feel.

 

[bloc]

So true. I have a light duty Tough Dog suspension with BBS wheels on Michelin P275/65/18 tires. Performance feels like OEM. It’s a fantastic set up with an OEM performance feel.

Correct.

I do believe a good higher end suspension can handle heavier higher pressure tires but stock or stock-like dampers just aren’t tuned for it. I forget who on this board posts a detail that toyota specs different dampers for Tacoma’s based on small differences in tire/wheel weight.

As for why mileage is impacted with LT tires vs p-metric, it is the same reason LT tires need higher cold pressures. More substantial construction has more internal friction. If they had the same lower pressures with all that extra friction they would get too hot and eventually fail. Also on tires like the toyo AT3 that are made in p-metric and LT-metric construction in a given size, you’ll see deeper tread, wider tread spacing, more sidewall tread, basically they aren’t designed to be as sleek/efficient.

All of that said.. if you spend a lot of time off road or in the rocks, these trade-offs may be worth it.

 

[Madtiger]

Correct.

I do believe a good higher end suspension can handle heavier higher pressure tires but stock or stock-like dampers just aren’t tuned for it. I forget who on this board posts a detail that toyota specs different dampers for Tacoma’s based on small differences in tire/wheel weight.

As for why mileage is impacted with LT tires vs p-metric, it is the same reason LT tires need higher cold pressures. More substantial construction has more internal friction. If they had the same lower pressures with all that extra friction they would get too hot and eventually fail. Also on tires like the toyo AT3 that are made in p-metric up to LT-metric in a given size, you’ll see deeper tread, wider tread spacing, more sidewall tread, basically they aren’t designed to be as sleek/efficient.

All of that said.. if you spend a lot of time off road or in the rocks, these trade-offs may be worth it.

Probably me. Tacoma TRD PRO had its FOX suspension recalibrated in 2020 because the rims were 5 lbs lighter each than prior years.

Back in the day, my 2002 4runner had different shocks based on which rims your 4runner came with.

Same goes for Prius previous gen where the Prius level V has different shocks because they came with 17” rims.

 

[bloc]

Probably me. Tacoma TRD PRO had its FOX suspension recalibrated in 2020 because the rims were 5 lbs lighter each than prior years.

Back in the day, my 2002 4runner had different shocks based on which rims your 4runner came with.

Same goes for Prius previous gen where the Prius level V has different shocks because they came with 17” rims.

Yes I think it was that.

 

[NLE]

I’m about to embark on a 2500 mile road trip down to Southern California and back to Seattle. I’ll report on ride quality and mpg once I get more seat time. It’s been 75 miles so far.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I documented a 2.5mpg drop (accounting for diameter difference) at 73-74mph over many, many tanks, going from stock p285/60r18 to LT285/65r18 KO2s. Also the ride quality dropped dramatically compared to stock, mostly due to the increased required cold pressure, but also from the extra weight. Brand new stock shocks quickly became overwhelmed by the drastically higher tire spring rate. Many people disagree with me on this.. but I noticed it. Also my ride quality and mileage got a lot better when I switched to even taller P-metric tires on 17” rock warriors... similar weight to stock setup, stock pressure, stock ride quality and mileage.


Mileage before KO2s.. 17-18. With: 14-15. Back to p-metric ATs: 17

I am going to be following this thread. On Saturday I traded in my 2016 LC that has been running 285/65R18E since essentially day one. For the first year I kept the stock suspension but then put in a modest lift and suspension upgrade (OME 2700/2721 springs and Nitrocharger Sport shocks) in the belief that this would help me cope with the 950 tongue weight from the trailer we were towing at the time. Overall I liked the KO2s a LOT! Except on washboarded roads where the stiffness seemed to result in more bounce and side-shifting. My 2016 with the Slee running boards and Gobi roof rack and nearly 200 lbs of my own weight tips 6700 lbs at the highway scales. Average MPG has been 14.3.

I have put 500 miles on the new 2021 LC. Average MPG has been 18+ and the ride is wonderful and quiet. Though I have yet to put the Slee sliders on that will happen tomorrow so I can see if they impact mileage. But this whole experience and the fact that my minimal “offroading” will mostly be dirt fire roads and “easy” off-road. My most significant concern is supporting the trailer weight. But our new trailer only has 750# of tongue weight and is lighter and shorter than our previous trailer.

I will be keeping the stock tires for a long (3,000 mile) road trip over the next few weeks. After that I will be considering tires that would be a bit tougher and maybe a higher load rating to help support the tire. But I don’t need E-rated. A slightly taller tire would be nice but not necessary. And I am really liking the 3MPG I am getting on the stock tires.

265/60R18D are certainly on the list. I like the Heritage wheels so won’t be changing those. I don’t plan to do any suspension upgrades. Other options? I have reached out to @gaijin for the RTIP on these tires.

The other consideration is that I do “air down” when on washboarded roads or rougher back roads. Or on sand or soft dirt. I would need a tire that can air down safely.

 

[Madtiger]

I am going to be following this thread. On Saturday I traded in my 2016 LC that has been running 285/65R18E since essentially day one. For the first year I kept the stock suspension but then put in a modest lift and suspension upgrade (OME 2700/2721 springs and Nitrocharger Sport shocks) in the belief that this would help me cope with the 950 tongue weight from the trailer we were towing at the time. Overall I liked the KO2s a LOT! Except on washboarded roads where the stiffness seemed to result in more bounce and side-shifting. My 2016 with the Slee running boards and Gobi roof rack and nearly 200 lbs of my own weight tips 6700 lbs at the highway scales. Average MPG has been 14.3.

I have put 500 miles on the new 2021 LC. Average MPG has been 18+ and the ride is wonderful and quiet. Though I have yet to put the Slee sliders on that will happen tomorrow so I can see if they impact mileage. But this whole experience and the fact that my minimal “offroading” will mostly be dirt fire roads and “easy” off-road. My most significant concern is supporting the trailer weight. But our new trailer only has 750# of tongue weight and is lighter and shorter than our previous trailer.

I will be keeping the stock tires for a long (3,000 mile) road trip over the next few weeks. After that I will be considering tires that would be a bit tougher and maybe a higher load rating to help support the tire. But I don’t need E-rated. A slightly taller tire would be nice but not necessary. And I am really liking the 3MPG I am getting on the stock tires.

265/60R18D are certainly on the list. I like the Heritage wheels so won’t be changing those. I don’t plan to do any suspension upgrades. Other options? I have reached out to @gaijin for the RTIP on these tires.

The other consideration is that I do “air down” when on washboarded roads or rougher back roads. Or on sand or soft dirt. I would need a tire that can air down safely.

BFG KO2 in 285/60/18 Load Range D…is what i have…PSI is 46.

Another tire you should consider is Michelin Defender 285/60/18 XL. It has good load rating. P-metric. And tough. And only weighs 39 lbs!! This is the tire that i have my eyes set on once my KO2 wears out.

 

[Dan Higgins]

BFG KO2 in 285/60/18 Load Range D…is what i have…PSI is 46.

Another tire you should consider is Michelin Defender 285/60/18 XL. It has good load rating. P-metric. And tough. And only weighs 39 lbs!! This is the tire that i have my eyes set on once my KO2 wears out.

Thanks. I was surprised by the 46PSI. That is stiffer than my 285/65R18Es at 42. I was hoping they would be “softer”. Clearly I don’t understand tire tech. I’ll need to check out the Michelins.

 

[Madtiger]

Thanks. I was surprised by the 46PSI. That is stiffer than my 285/65R18Es at 42. I was hoping they would be “softer”. Clearly I don’t understand tire tech. I’ll need to check out the Michelins.

At least for my butt-o-meter, the KO2 Load Range D rides pretty good despite 46 psi. My wife likes the ride better than her Acura MDX.

My main reason to consider the Defenders is getting better mileage. And somewhere in my mind, i am afraid that the heavy tires will cause more wear and tear on my suspension parts.

 

[greynolds]

I like the Heritage wheels so won’t be changing those. I don’t plan to do any suspension upgrades.

Same here.

I also like the Heritage wheels - the only change I'm considering there is getting a 5th matching wheel for the spare so I can do 5 tire rotations.

Suspension upgrades that increase the height are pretty much completely out of the question for me as my garage door is a limiting factor. I can go with slightly larger tires as 1" of extra diameter only makes the vehicle 1/2" taller, but I don't have room for much more than that. I also don't have plans to do any serious off road driving either, so there's no real need to go with larger tires.

 

[sadovnik]

BFG KO2 in 285/60/18 Load Range D…is what i have…PSI is 46.

Another tire you should consider is Michelin Defender 285/60/18 XL. It has good load rating. P-metric. And tough. And only weighs 39 lbs!! This is the tire that i have my eyes set on once my KO2 wears out.

Is that Defender tire any good in snow? On my previous vehicle, I've always had dedicated summer and winter tires, but I'm trying to get away from that. Swapping wheels twice a year is a hassle. I want a tire that will perform well in the winter and summer. The only offroading I do is on dirt roads to get into the trailheads where I offload my SxS. Thanks!

 

[Madtiger]

Is that Defender tire any good in snow? On my previous vehicle, I've always had dedicated summer and winter tires, but I'm trying to get away from that. Swapping wheels twice a year is a hassle. I want a tire that will perform well in the winter and summer. The only offroading I do is on dirt roads to get into the trailheads where I offload my SxS. Thanks!

I cannot tell you from direct experience…but i have read that they do really well in winter. Now, i am sure that they are not as good as dedicated winter tires. My wife’s MDX has Defenders…they do great in rain and do good in light snow...per wife.

 

[bloc]

Defenders “should” do better in snow/ice as their tread pattern is more along the lines of all-season tires designed with that as a major objective. Most other more aggressive AT tires have mud clearance and mechanical grip in softer terrain as a much larger priority in their development. Basically you can’t have it all.. and with ATs we are usually accepting some compromise in NVH/ice/wet to get the benefits off-road.

I am going to be following this thread. On Saturday I traded in my 2016 LC that has been running 285/65R18E since essentially day one. For the first year I kept the stock suspension but then put in a modest lift and suspension upgrade (OME 2700/2721 springs and Nitrocharger Sport shocks) in the belief that this would help me cope with the 950 tongue weight from the trailer we were towing at the time. Overall I liked the KO2s a LOT! Except on washboarded roads where the stiffness seemed to result in more bounce and side-shifting. My 2016 with the Slee running boards and Gobi roof rack and nearly 200 lbs of my own weight tips 6700 lbs at the highway scales. Average MPG has been 14.3.

I have put 500 miles on the new 2021 LC. Average MPG has been 18+ and the ride is wonderful and quiet. Though I have yet to put the Slee sliders on that will happen tomorrow so I can see if they impact mileage. But this whole experience and the fact that my minimal “offroading” will mostly be dirt fire roads and “easy” off-road. My most significant concern is supporting the trailer weight. But our new trailer only has 750# of tongue weight and is lighter and shorter than our previous trailer.

I will be keeping the stock tires for a long (3,000 mile) road trip over the next few weeks. After that I will be considering tires that would be a bit tougher and maybe a higher load rating to help support the tire. But I don’t need E-rated. A slightly taller tire would be nice but not necessary. And I am really liking the 3MPG I am getting on the stock tires.

265/60R18D are certainly on the list. I like the Heritage wheels so won’t be changing those. I don’t plan to do any suspension upgrades. Other options? I have reached out to @gaijin for the RTIP on these tires.

The other consideration is that I do “air down” when on washboarded roads or rougher back roads. Or on sand or soft dirt. I would need a tire that can air down safely.

I should probably point out a possible contributing factor to my experience is my relatively light weight. Loaded for a trip I’m usually only 6300lb with me in it. More mass could calm down some of the suspension dynamics I didn’t like from my KO2s but I’m not sure.

Also you mentioned changing tires to get more load rating. You just don’t need it. Stock tires will handle the loads he vehicle will just fine. You can increase pressure if you’d like more stability, but the tire can handle the load. (Stability isn’t always that simple though, as my anecdote with some fire apparatus demonstrates, if you haven’t seen it from me yet and are interested.)

That’s not to say a more robust tire doesn’t have other advantages.. but load capacity shouldn’t be one on a given vehicle.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Defenders “should” do better in snow/ice as their tread pattern is more along the lines of all-season tires designed with that as a major objective. Most other more aggressive AT tires have mud clearance and mechanical grip in softer terrain as a much larger priority in their development. Basically you can’t have it all.. and with ATs we are usually accepting some compromise in NVH/ice/wet to get the benefits off-road.



I should probably point out a possible contributing factor to my experience is my relatively light weight. Loaded for a trip I’m usually only 6300lb with me in it. More mass could calm down some of the suspension dynamics I didn’t like from my KO2s but I’m not sure.

Also you mentioned changing tires to get more load rating. You just don’t need it. Stock tires will handle the loads he vehicle will just fine. You can increase pressure if you’d like more stability, but the tire can handle the load. (Stability isn’t always that simple though, as my anecdote with some fire apparatus demonstrates, if you haven’t seen it from me yet and are interested.)

That’s not to say a more robust tire doesn’t have other advantages.. but load capacity shouldn’t be one on a given vehicle.

OK. I’ll bite. What is the fire apparatus analogy?

 

[bloc]

OK. I’ll bite. What is the fire apparatus analogy?

We had an issue where a new engine was hard to keep in a lane at freeway speeds. Mechanically everything checked out. Tire pressures at the rated 110/120psi front/rear. Our mechanics said to lower the rear tires to 100 and it totally fixed the issue.

I wouldn’t ever tell someone to run less than the load chart recommended pressure, and I have no idea what was going on here dynamically, but it makes the point that experimentation can sometimes lead to surprising results.

 

[SQRRRL]

We had an issue where a new engine was hard to keep in a lane at freeway speeds. Mechanically everything checked out. Tire pressures at the rated 110/120psi front/rear. Our mechanics said to lower the rear tires to 100 and it totally fixed the issue.

I wouldn’t ever tell someone to run less than the load chart recommended pressure, and I have no idea what was going on here dynamically, but it makes the point that experimentation can sometimes lead to surprising results.

What Dept?

 

[bloc]

What Dept?

PM sent.

 

[NLE]

Just drove 1200 miles down to LA, mostly doing highway at 70-75mph and averaged about 16-18mpg depending on incline / grade. Best tank was ~18mpg on flats in central California. 16.8mpg combined including some adventuring in the mountains around Ojai and LA traffic. Not bad for the 285/65/18 ko2s.