22re remanufacture from a machinists perspective

[88repo]

I dont use anything except The Right Stuff...

Ok, so take the pan, is there any skin over time or are you torquing bolts while it's still fully wet?

I'd tend to think snugging the bolts down finger tight then sitting overnight before torquing would be the way to go as it should prevent metal to metal contact but hey, what do I know....

 

[toyotaboy80]

Ok, so take the pan, is there any skin over time or are you torquing bolts while it's still fully wet?

I'd tend to think snugging the bolts down finger tight then sitting overnight before torquing would be the way to go as it should prevent metal to metal contact but hey, what do I know....

Torque it asap. If you cant get it torqued in 5 minutes, start over. By the time you lay down the right stuff, put the pan on, finger all your bolts in 3/4 of a thread and grab the speed wrench, the right stuff is already skinned over. Suck it down in 3 hand tight increments and torque down.

For something like a 2 bolt plate where I need it sealed and can install and torque it in 30 seconds, I will set it hand tight, let it set for a minute or two, and then torque it down.

The actual procedure for most standard wrong stuff is roughly tight enough to see the squeeze, let it set 1 hour, and then torque spec.

Finger tight 24hrs later torque it, IMO, is just going to split the material after its already bonded; it wont be able to flow and will create a leak.

 

[88repo]

Great info, thanks!

Of the 3 pan installs I've done, the only one that sealed 100% was amazingly done while on my back and o/c with the wrong stuff. Other two done on the stand leaked like stuck pigs.

Next one I want right and tight but have a long way to go before that happens.

Anxious to hear about the results of your build.

 

[toyotaboy80]

The previous owner had the oil pan, front cover, water pump, and water pipes all glued on. Zero leaks, no gaskets used. Id assume he would of had to use the right stuff given how hard it came apart.

For what its worth I put it on the pan following the grooves and circling the holes then installed the pan. Putting it on the block and then installing the pan doesnt guarantee theres enough sealant in the right spots to fill the voids in the pan.

Even though youre not supposed to use silicone with paper gaskets, I do....but only the right stuff. An ULTRA thin bead, so thin it barely squeezes out. My theory is that the do not use both ideal came from following the skin over approach and then when it came to torquing it the skinned over sealant would split the paper gasket. When I use the right stuff with a paper gasket I torque it within 30 seconds...extra insurance that it takes care of variance in surface flatness that would otherwise seep or leak when ran with a straight up gasket.

for the 22re pan gasket being cork, I think it is best to delete it entirely.

I'm not expecting any leaks or issues... but who does after spending hours building something...

 

[Mudder]

One thing worth nothing on the 22r(e) oil pans, the earlier styles does use a gasket, the pan as raised bumps going towards the engine block, while the later style uses FPIG and has the recessed grooves pointing away from the engine block.

 

[toyotaboy80]

One thing worth nothing on the 22r(e) oil pans, the earlier styles does use a gasket, the pan as raised bumps going towards the engine block, while the later style uses FPIG and has the recessed grooves pointing away from the engine block.

Good to know.... I've only ever seen the pan with recessed grooves. In the case of requiring the use of the cork gasket I'd right stuff both sides of the gasket with an 1/8" bead and torque asap.

 

[ALX4X4]

Can I ask a layman question for a machinst point of view ? At least in Aus, to have a crank ground, block decked and honed, all the basic stuff, we seem to be asked to pay a lot ( A LOT) more for a 4-cyl diesel engine to be put through what seems to be exactly the same process / machining that a 4-cyl gas engine .
I cant see it costs more to tunnel bore deck and hone a diesel block that a gas, same machine, same operation.
Are we just getting gouged because diesel has a different perception ??
Cheers.

 

[toyotaboy80]

A diesel crank requires more attention to the radius on the journals due to the extra load the crank sees. The radius has to be dressed into the stone, and stones arent cheap. I'd have to check but I think we charge more for a diesel crank.

Setting up decking the block is the same amount of time for a gas or diesel. Although we would charge more for either a gas or diesel application if we had to take extra steps to ensure a specific deck height whether that is zero deck, piston protrusion, or piston recession. That is a much more critical measurement for a diesel engine than gas. A typical gas rebuild you "take what you get" so to speak.

Resizing the piston bore doesnt matter price wise if the bore is integral to the block and can be taken to a nominal oversize. If machining for a sleeve or re&re'ing a sleeve and then honing is required, it costs more.

Generally speaking a diesel engine requires more time and attention to details.

 

[jgranthevagrant]

I'm looking at a new head and probably a cam. .430 lift is standard or stock? I don't know much about cams. Looks like you left the head mostly stock also. Any opinions on the fairly expensive head and cam options like the Pro head and cam from LCE?

 

[pappy]

I'm looking at a new head and probably a cam. .430 lift is standard or stock? I don't know much about cams. Looks like you left the head mostly stock also. Any opinions on the fairly expensive head and cam options like the Pro head and cam from LCE?

Looooong time ago I did some research on the various camshaft options for the 22RE. By long ago I mean at least 20 years ago. Attached. Not sure how relevant the tables are now since most grinds are NLA, and I'm sure some have changed.

 

[ntsqd]

For cams I always go by what the cam mfg of choice suggests. What they suggest is almost always going to be smaller than what you think you want. They know way more about it than I do, so I stick to their suggestion(s). OEM EFI adds a complication in that there are dimensions to certain features of some cams that EFI is intolerant of.

In port work I want work done that emphasizes the low valve lift flow. I couldn't care less about the max lift flow because the valve spends very little time there. The valve does spend a fair amount of time at or more than, say, .05" off the valve seat, so the flow at .05" is important to me. Simularly the flow at .100" off the seat is important to me although a little less than the .050" flow, but the flow at .500" off the seat means nothing as it is nearly useless.

 

[Mudder]

I may be the odd one out, but I see no point to a cam in a 22re. It won’t make that much of a difference. I did it on the 22re that I built, used an engnbldr 261 RV camshaft and noticed no difference. If your stock can is in good shape I’d just run it, especially if you’re EFI. From what I remember reading long ago to make a real difference you need a .430 lift cam and that doesn’t play well with the stock ecu. It has been a long time since I read about cams in the 22re though.

 

[pappy]

I may be the odd one out, but I see no point to a cam in a 22re. It won’t make that much of a difference. I did it on the 22re that I built, used an engnbldr 261 RV camshaft and noticed no difference. If your stock can is in good shape I’d just run it, especially if you’re EFI. From what I remember reading long ago to make a real difference you need a .430 lift cam and that doesn’t play well with the stock ecu. It has been a long time since I read about cams in the 22re though.

Interesting. I've run the DOA C270, the Crane/TRD #1, and the LCE EFI street. I did notice a difference between all three. All were better than stock, but, it's been forever since I've run stock.

 

[Mudder]

@pappy, maybe I ran the wrong cam on mine as I never messed around with another. I built the 22re and still hated how slow it was. I knew a 3RZ or a turbo was going to be the end goal so I stopped spending money on it until I knew what I was going to do.

Did you run into issues with any of the cams and valve to piston clearance issues?

 

[pappy]

@pappy, maybe I ran the wrong cam on mine as I never messed around with another. I built the 22re and still hated how slow it was. I knew a 3RZ or a turbo was going to be the end goal so I stopped spending money on it until I knew what I was going to do.

Did you run into issues with any of the cams and valve to piston clearance issues?

No, but ... The DOA was installed in a DOA engine. After it failed I found out he had ground down the valves to a "knife edge." I don't know if that was due to the camshaft (I doubt it looking at the lift), or due to the fact that he decked the block to min spec, and decked the head to min spec.

 

[aztoyman]

My last 22RE build was also a LONG time ago. I built two of them side by side. One for my truck and one for my son's. I did see a difference with a cam change.

I ran the Engnbldr 270 cam in mine. Stated to be the largest cam compatible with the stock EFI. I blended the bowls and gasket matched the ports and ran the Engnbldr larger valves.

My son wanted the Crawler cam (260?) but also got the same bowl blending, port match but stock valves. Everything else was the same. Mine was an 88 and his a 91 so a better intake on his supposedly.

We both had a long tube header and 2 1/2" exhaust with CAT. Both had to pass emissions. Both of us had 5.29 gears and 35's. Both SAS'd and dual cased. Both of us had W56's at the time.

At a stoplight race he would slightly pull me off the start but I would pull and keep pulling away after that. I did notice a very slight reduction in low end torque but mid range was awesome. Perfect for commuting in traffic like I did at the time. I had my truck up to 100 MPH (speedo, not GPS) on the freeway and could never do that before. I was always in lower gears off road so never noticed any loss of torque.

My son's truck did not have that midrange or top speed. Just my personal experience.

 

[jgranthevagrant]

I will start a new thread on this. Did not expect the depth of responses or to hijack the OP's thread.