If the Land Cruiser is a Toyota version of a Lexus GX 550 Overtrail but with "Heritage" styling and improved sheet metal angles (and slightly degraded interior and audio system, of course) I would definitely buy the Toyota. Heck, I might even buy the 4Runner depending on how it and the LC end up being specced.
2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (2 Viewers)
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If the Land Cruiser is a Toyota version of a Lexus GX 550 Overtrail but with "Heritage" styling and improved sheet metal angles (and slightly degraded interior and audio system, of course) I would definitely buy the Toyota. Heck, I might even buy the 4Runner depending on how it and the LC end up being specced.
Me too. I don't care at all what the badges say. I'd rather it be a Toyota over a Lexus if it means a better value and I don't care if it says Land Cruiser or 4runner or something else. My driveway includes a Land Cruiser and Lexus. I really like them both. Just don't really care what the badges say.
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I would have rather gotten a Toyota. I made the mistake of making a non-refundable deposit on a Tacoma and they let me roll it over into the LX. It was that or a 2008 Toyota 100 Series that was much rougher (service history indicated overheating issues) but a lot cheaper.
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Overtrail + version is the most expensive trim based on everything included on it.
Here is a link to the preorder guide for the GX.
Here is a link to the preorder guide for the GX.
It really depends on what the poison pills are going to be for each vehicle and where the end up price wise.
Is the overtrail going to be priced within a couple grand of a base LX600? Thats a hard no.
How detuned is the LC going to be? If we are talking about round down from say 349/479 to 340/470, I would be fine with that.
What is the price point at which I can get front and rear lockers on the LC.
There's no more free lunch for Toyota. I am not really interested in being forced into a top trim level to get one or two options and have to spend thousands of dollars on aftermarket that are more appropriate. I am not interested in a US 250 series that's more expensive than a Base GCC 300 series.
Yeah,
It feels like there are setting it up to be within a couple grand of the top tier/"flagship" base LX600. I am sure this convince a lot of winebox moms to bump up into the LX.
This Is exactly why they aren't selling the new Gx550 in the Middle East.
The current GX 460 which is also sold in the ME is actually more expensive than the base 300 twin 6 in some countries where they are sold together.
So you can imagine the GX 550 will be even more expensive.
Yeah...
Toyota is definitely taking an odd approach.
While the 250 and 300 series are getting really close in most areas, I am just not tracking some how they arrived at some of their decisions.
The 300 series, or the LX in the US is supposed to be the top of the line and is marketed as "incomparable indulgence." Considering that you unless you are willing to spend 130k on the Ultimate Luxury package, The second row is just the same bench seat that is in a GXR with a different seat cover. I do think their 2nd row in the ultimate luxury trim is really nice, but is sort of undermined with the single sun roof.
The 250 series, or at least in the case the GX, is sorta of marketed as Rugged yet refined, but It one ups the 300 series by offering a panoramic roof and second row captain's chairs. So on one hand, I sorta of feel that the GX can be setting up to better offer incomparable indulgence, than the LX,
BUT... It appears, at least for now, that this incomparable indulgence in the GX luxury plus trim doesn't have KDSS or Crawl control which is pretty week. for something that's it mission statement says is supposed to be rugged yet refined.
This is the typical interaction between Toyota and their BOF customers.
ME: Hey Toyota, I really like new GX, and would like to give you money. I would like to order one with options A,B,C, and D.
Toyota: Thank you, we can offer you options A and B with the Luxury Plus trim or Options C and D with the Overtrail trim. Thos optoins can not be combined/
Me: Sigh...
I wouldn't worry much about the certain aspects where the 250 currently one ups the 300 like the panoramic roof and other details
This actually has happened in the past with the gx/lx when the gx 460 and prado came out for MY2010 they actually had updated specs vs the 200 that had been put for 2 years already, like the updated version of crawl control & all new multi terrain select as well as a few other things.
Also remember the GX got kdss a few years before the 200 came out.
It happens not just with lexus/Toyota but with other manufacturers too.
It's been 2 years since the 300 made its debut and by the time most customers actually receive the 250 it would have been 3 years since the 300 made its debut.
I am sure with the next face-lift they will make sure the 300 has all that it misses out and more.
I have actually noticed this even with the 300.
Kdss used to be offered on more versions of the 200, right now to get E-KDSS on the 300 you have to get the GR-Sport and on the 250 GX the over trail.
The thing is they end up having so many different trim levels and they don't differentiate the flagship level enough and it affects the lower spec versions.
I feel the GR sport 300 for example, really deserves better attention. Other than E-KDSS, you can get everything it offers on other versions of the 300, even the lockers. Right now I am hoping this is just a result of it still being a brand new generation, and that over time as the model years pass by we will see some nice additions to different trim levels. The sad thing is sometimes this takes so much time that by the time it happens, the vehicle is already pretty outdated.
I've read a few of you comment negatively about the 4Runner powertrain. Could you expand a bit on why you do not like it? The V6 engine has about three times the bhp of my Landcruiser and I get by pretty well. I've even driven the FJ70 across Europe on the autoroute (though it did not love the experience.) Is the 4Runner so heavy that nearly 300 bph is not enough?
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I don't have experience with the 4Runner V-6 but everything is relative. I did have an 87 Cherokee and a 94 Wrangler with the 4.0L I-6 and I loved that engine (the Toyota V-6 kills it on power). Heck, I think my Wrangler may have been a 3-Speed AT. As the saying goes, perfection is the enemy of good enough.
What would be annoying is if the 4Runner has the same throttle mapping and transmission issues I hear about in the Tacoma.
I will tell you what is a horrible engine. My LX is getting worked on at the dealer and I have a NX loaner. Now that engine is dogs#%t.
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It's the thing to say. Hell, I said it too coming from a V8 4R but stopped saying it in just a few days. The main thing missed was low end power feel in comparison but once you figure out that the gas pedal can actually be pushed down farther, all was fine.
Engine is more than beyond enough for everything but drag racing.
The engine itself is actually ok. I just think the throttle mapping could be better and it could use an extra gear or two to work with. It just feels really sluggish to me on the low end. When you floor it you can feel it screaming with all its might (especially when running the TRD exhaust) to get up to speed. Then on the high end, say for example cruising around 80-85 it likes to sit in the 2,500-3000 rpm range and gear hunt a bit.
This article from Japan's Best Car web says the new LC will get the 4 cyl Turbo, the V6 like the Lexus GX550 and a new hybrid engine as well.
bestcarweb.jp
新型ランクルプラド今秋登場!? 初のハイブリッド＆GX似の超イケメンになるゾ - 自動車情報誌「ベストカー」
新型ランクルプラド今秋登場!? 初のハイブリッド＆GX似の超イケメンになるゾ 都会的に洗練されつつ本格オフローダーとしての使用にも耐えるという「ランクルの弟分」トヨタ ランドクルーザープラド。そのプラドが2023年、14年ぶりのフルモデルチェンジを迎える。次期型では歴代初のHEVになるとも言われているが、はたして!?
Thanks for the link, so this confirms the Alleged 3.5L Twin Turbo V6.
Also note:
"There is also information that the car name will be changed to "Land Cruiser 250" instead of Prado."
Here is the Google Translate version.
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It's all in the tune and gearing. The V6 has pretty decent peak power, but the tune in the 4runner requires you to really demand the power. It feels weak because the first 50% of the pedal travel is only about 25% throttle. You basically end up pedal to the floor before it'll give you any of that power.
In addition the engine is not well balanced, power is at high rpms, and it has pretty weak low end power. The combination means under and high load scenario you're up into the higher rpm range a lot and it's got a lot of NVH. It's just not very comfortable to drive that way.
And on top of that the geniuses at Toyota choose to sandbag the transmission by only using 5 gears. This is the biggest intentional handicap and the example of why I have a love/hate view of Toyota lately. The trans is a 6 speed that only uses 5 gears. And with the power output and efficiency of the 1GR it needs better low speed gearing. It drives much much better with 4.56 gears with slightly taller tires. Feels like adding 50hp. It's wonderful to drive everywhere except on the highway. It should be 4.30 or 4.10 stock. But the 5 speed lacks the range to do that efficiently. With 4.56 gears the highway mpg falls off a cliff because the 1GR goes out of it's high thermal efficiency rpm range. It was bad enough I pulled my 4.56 gears back out. It really needs the extra transmission gear Toyota takes away for no reason other than to handicap it and proper gearing.
And this something Toyota knows. And even acknowledged finally by the new Tacoma engineer that the Tacoma gearing was trash despite Toyota defending it for years. The rx350 with the 6at had 4.40 diff ratios and the same transmission ratios. It feels like it has 100hp more.
So that all ads up to why the 1gr isn't as well liked as it should be. It's how Toyota matches it with the transmission, gearing, and tune that makes the 1gr kinda suck in the 4r. It's a fantastic engine. And it's really great on the trail. IMO it may be Toyota's best engine. It's just poorly executed in the 4runner.
I got an nx loaner with the older 8ar 2.0 turbo 4. Also very anemic feeling. It should be really comparable to my RX. Especially at 6000 feet. But it was really disappointing in how it actually felt to drive. I hope that the turbo 2.4 is a lot better or it'll be a complete dog in a 5k lb SUV. On paper it should be a nice upgrade from the 4.0. Especially low rpm power. And even moreso with the 8 or 10 speed. But we won't know until we try.
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Thanks to all of you for your insights. I only ever test drove a 4Runner round the block kind thing at a dealer and your descriptions mesh with what I felt. I got the impression that of you drive it easy, don't tow too much, it might be pretty nice, and there is something about the 4Runner that I like (as do thousands of you.)
Now that we have seen the future of the GX and LC, any speculation about the future of the 4Runner?
Now that we have seen the future of the GX and LC, any speculation about the future of the 4Runner?
I think it will be based on the new Tacoma with the same engines and TRD-Pro and Trailhunter options.
SR5 with the 4cyl Turbo and the Trailhunter, TRD-Pro and Limited with the Max engine. I have no clue about a TRD-OR model.
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