2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (5 Viewers)

[ThRiLlGmYr]

Speaking of expensive top trims, and I know it is bad manners to bring up money, but does anyone have a real idea of what these new Toys top trims are going to cost? Time to stop speculating and talk turkey. In Europe, clients are expecting a 3500 to 5000 euros price increase over 2023 Prado numbers. That would put the top trims of the Landcruiser 250 (ex Prado) at 80-85K euros or more. That is getting to be a pretty big pill to pay, don’t you think?

Toyota is not going to get Euro Landrover buyers to drop down because people buy Range Rover for a slew of reasons and none of them have anything to do with automotives. Toyota does not have the chic/snob appeal. The new LC250 is going to be too dear for middle range buyers who will likely take their euros elsewhere. And there is no 4Runner. Prado was the EU 4Runner.

Is there appetite for the LC250 and GX550 at elite boutique prices in the States? And please no low ball numbers for the L250 and GX. There is a good reason they are delaying revealing the price!

Pricing is tough to estimate with inflation all over the place.

Car & Driver's guess is as good as mine and this is their's for the GX.

Premium $60k
Premium + $65k
Luxury $70k
Luxury + $75k
Overtrail $75k
Overtrail + $80k

GX550

If I had to guess, for the versions that would matter to me, a 4Runner Trailhunter will probably be in the mid $50's and the LC Trailhunter equivalent will be close to $70k.

I just checked Car & Driver for the Land Cruiser and I am not convinced of their predictions and the use of variants.

SR5- $60k
Limited- $70k
Platinum- $80k
Capstone- $90k

2025 Land Cruiser

 

[Rednexus]

Pricing is tough to estimate with inflation all over the place.

Car & Driver's guess is as good as mine and this is their's for the GX.

Premium $60k
Premium + $65k
Luxury $70k
Luxury + $75k
Overtrail $75k
Overtrail + $80k

If I had to guess, for the versions that would matter to me, a 4Runner Trailhunter will probably be in the mid $50's and the LC Trailhunter equivalent will be close to $70k.

My 2007 GX470, as optioned, had a MSRP somewhere around $52,000. The base was $46,635. In 2023 dollars that's $70,000 for a base rig and $78,000 for one that has nav and premium sound. Considering the GX550 is going to be a bigger, more powerful, more capable, more advanced, and safer rig, it's actually actually a much better value than these rigs were new, 20 years ago.

 

[malden]

Just as a point of reference, here is the top trim for the 2023 Prado in France. It starts at 81,050 euros (US$91,000) plus options. A 3500 to 5000 euros increase is expected above and beyond the 2023 pricing. That would put this model “starting” at say 85,000 euros (US$96,000.) Normally the EU price in euros winds up being the US$ price. That would put the top trim GX/LC250 starting at US$85,000. How many trims of the LC250 are you expecting? Would there be a $30K difference between trims?

 

[malden]

Car & Driver's guess is as good as mine and this is their's for the GX.

Premium $60k
Premium + $65k
Luxury $70k
Luxury + $75k
Overtrail $75k
Overtrail + $80k

If I had to guess, for the versions that would matter to me, a 4Runner Trailhunter will probably be in the mid $50's and the LC Trailhunter equivalent will be close to $70k.

I just checked Car & Driver for the Land Cruiser and I am not convinced of their predictions and the use of variants.

SR5- $60k
Limited- $70k
Platinum- $80k
Capstone- $90k

Yes, thanks for this, and the Overtrail, Overtrail+, Platinum and Capstone trims seem to match what our projected EU top trim prices will be. Cheers

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Just as a point of reference, here is the top trim for the 2023 Prado in France. It starts at 81,050 euros (US$91,000) plus options. A 3500 to 5000 euros increase is expected above and beyond the 2023 pricing. That would put this model “starting” at say 85,000 euros (US$96,000.) Normally the EU price in euros winds up being the US$ price. That would put the top trim LC starting at US$85,000. How many trims of the LC250 are you expecting? Would there be a $30K difference between trims?

View attachment 3375131

First year US LC250 is rumored to be limited to two trims, however I think three trims is more realistic.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

Yes, thanks for this, and the Overtrail, Overtrail+, Platinum and Capstone trims seem to match what our projected EU top trim prices will be. Cheers

I just find it hard to believe there will be Toyota Land Cruiser models that far upmarket from Lexus. Especially on the basis of extra luxury features. I don't think the Capstone is realistic. I can see a base "SR5" trim and an upgraded "Limited or Platinum" (when did Toyota start stealing trim levels from Ford and Jeep) and eventually a hybrid upgrade. But not a trim $10k over the highest price GX.

I can see a $60k 4cyl/EKDSS SR5 and I can see a $70k-75k model just under the Lexus Overtrail.

 

[Phillyd2]

As we can see from the TRD and Taco Trailhunter trend, it may not be just the MSRP but all the bolt on extras that will really drive the prices. And yes, they will sell each and every one of them at a premium - along with a healthy waitlist.

 

[malden]

No kidding. If you can buy a new bonafide 2024 Toyota LC250 for US$ 60k, people from all over the blinking world will be coming to buy them, and you should buy a dozen. The current entry level 2023 Prado in France is higher than $60K. I have a feeling the projected pricing on these trucks is vastly underestimated, but in the States, yes, no matter what the price turns out to be plus all the options, add-ons, and dealer avarice fees, Toyota will sell every last one of them before they have landed. Agreed. Today the USA is an amazing market for cars in general, and a gold mine for Toyota. But it wasn't too long ago Toyota could not give the LCs away and had to halt importation. Right? So Toyota had better get it right with this LC250!

In all of the EU plus Russia, Israel, Turkey, Ukraine etc. Toyota only sold 12,495 Landcruisers and 71 Lexus GXs in the first six months of 2023. Europe is a very different market and I think this spiral upwards in pricing does not bode well.

Toyota Motor Europe’s sales grow to 573,976

TME’s total electrified sales increased by +6% to 409,506 vehicles year-on-yearToyota brand maintains its position as 2nd place best-selling passenger car brand in Europe Lexus total sales volume increased strongly with +43% growth vs the same period in 2022

newsroom.toyota.eu

 

[MountaineerLC]

All of this talk of pricing just reminds me that I've got Land Cruiser taste on a clapped out Jeep TJ budget...

 

[Jetboy]

Where did you find the LC300 RTI score?
I really don't think the license plate number was an Easter egg for anything honestly, because the GX in that photo wasn't even the overtrail version which as we know is the only version with E-KDSS
View attachment 3374891
.... and I don't think the 250 will end up having a higher RTI than a 300.

I hope someone in Australia ends up doing an RTI comparison between them, that would be fun, or a full off road comparison. They probably might.

Toyota claims about 29 inches of articulation on the 300. That seems unrealistic. But if you combine that with the wheelbase it calculates out to 732 RTI score on a 20° ramp. I think the GX is going to be identical. So the extra 2 degrees is rounding, tires, or??

I don't think the 300/lx will be protected anymore. The LX is not a halo off-road vehicle anymore. Arguably it's not an off-road model at all. It has less clearance than a Rav4. And the base model likely has less articulation than many current Toyota models - need some tests to see.

As far as pricing - you can't compare to markets that include VAT or on-road fees. We know the Prado is slightly cheaper than the 4runner in markets both are sold in. The 4runner is the obvious guide to USA pricing. I think it'll be significantly overlapped between them. LC is unlikely to match Sequoia pricing. So about 55-70k.

 

[m4hk33]

Pricing is tough to estimate with inflation all over the place.

Car & Driver's guess is as good as mine and this is their's for the GX.

Premium $60k
Premium + $65k
Luxury $70k
Luxury + $75k
Overtrail $75k
Overtrail + $80k

If I had to guess, for the versions that would matter to me, a 4Runner Trailhunter will probably be in the mid $50's and the LC Trailhunter equivalent will be close to $70k.

I just checked Car & Driver for the Land Cruiser and I am not convinced of their predictions and the use of variants.

SR5- $60k
Limited- $70k
Platinum- $80k
Capstone- $90k

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

If the GX and LC have the same base price, what's the value proposition for each entry model? If the LC swaps leather seats in favor of lockers and crawl control. I am a buyer. Knowing that I would be doing a tire and wheel package, 60k feels about right for where the base LC should be.

If, like in the last gen 4Runner, the lock KDSS, lockers and crawl control into the Limited at around 70k, There are better tools in the toolbox. Outside of ford sucks, something like a Bronco, Badlands, with sasquatch and lux options at 65k blows a base LC out of the water for outdoor stuff. As you go further up the trim ladder that are way better people movers/commutes

 

[TexasFunRunner]

With the discussion of the RTI I got curious about the LC250 dimensions as compared to the GX 550. The first thing I noted in the comparison below was that the greenhouse window angles and length are all the same, the wheelbase is the same, etc. So it's clear the underlying structural body cage is identical with only the exterior sheet metal skin being different between the GX 550 and LC250.

Therefore, we can assume the dimensions will be virtually identical with the GX 550:

Length: 197.04" w/ trailer hitch, 194.88" w/o trailer hitch​

Width: 77.95" w/o mirrors, 83.22" w/ mirrors​

Height: 76.18 in. (GX 550 Overtrail)​

Wheelbase: 112.2"​

​

 

[malden]

As far as pricing - you can't compare to markets that include VAT or on-road fees. We know the Prado is slightly cheaper than the 4runner in markets both are sold in. The 4runner is the obvious guide to USA pricing. I think it'll be significantly overlapped between them. LC is unlikely to match Sequoia pricing. So about 55-70k.

In the example above for France I backed out the cost of VAT in my estimate for a US equivalent and came into line with what Car &Driver estimates as well.

If you guys can get a brand new LC250 with top of the line engines for $55-70K that would be an amazing bargain. And there is no longer an argument for the 4Runner to exist. Why would someone spend $50K for a 4Runner when for another five thousand they can get a LC250? My gut tells me something is wrong here.

But the old saying is that if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it, and we have already established that no matter the price, every unit will be sold. Toyota is doing something seriously right.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

So basically, the Baby LC is just going to be a top 4R trim, that has certain options locked into it, that has been re-skinned to make the masses think they are getting a real LC.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

So basically, the Baby LC is just going to be a top 4R trim that has been re-skinned to make the masses think they are getting a real LC.

Nope, it is going to be a GX550 re-skinned. It has nothing to do with the current 4Runner.

 

[M1911]

Nope, it is going to be a GX550 re-skinned. It has nothing to do with the current 4Runner.

He is talking about the 6th gen 4Runner, not the 5th gen. Since the 4th and 5th gen 4Runners were very closely related to the GX, if the Land Cruiser 250 is going to basically be a GX with Toyota badges, then where does the 4Runner fit into the lineup? If the 4Runner is also basically a GX with Toyota badges, then it appears that the LC 250 will, indeed, effectively be a top trim 4Runner. Or to put it a different way, the 6th gen 4Runner will be a stripper LC 250.

 

[Jetboy]

In the example above for France I backed out the cost of VAT in my estimate for a US equivalent and came into line with what Car &Driver estimates as well.

If you guys can get a brand new LC250 with top of the line engines for $55-70K that would be an amazing bargain. And there is no longer an argument for the 4Runner to exist. Why would someone spend $50K for a 4Runner when for another five thousand they can get a LC250? My gut tells me something is wrong here.

But the old saying is that if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it, and we have already established that no matter the price, every unit will be sold. Toyota is doing something seriously right.

The top trim Prado in Japan is $51k USD. That's inline with the top trim 4runner. They're the same car with different sheet metal. Pricing is going to be nearly identical. Next generation, who knows

There are some price caps IMO. The bronco raptor is $85k, but it's realistically $20k away from a 350hp LC250. And the Sequoia TRD pro is 77k and it's the hybrid. The equivalent LC will be at least $5k less is my guess. Probably closer to $10k less. I think it tops out about $70k with ttv6. If it's only 4cyl - 65k max.

So basically, the Baby LC is just going to be a top 4R trim, that has certain options locked into it, that has been re-skinned to make the masses think they are getting a real LC.

The LC is a reskinned lc300. So, is a reskinned, reskinned lc300 a real Land Cruiser if the 300 is really just a baby Sequoia anyway?

 

[vantage78]

In the example above for France I backed out the cost of VAT in my estimate for a US equivalent and came into line with what Car &Driver estimates as well.

If you guys can get a brand new LC250 with top of the line engines for $55-70K that would be an amazing bargain. And there is no longer an argument for the 4Runner to exist. Why would someone spend $50K for a 4Runner when for another five thousand they can get a LC250? My gut tells me something is wrong here.

But the old saying is that if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it, and we have already established that no matter the price, every unit will be sold. Toyota is doing something seriously right.

Your thoughts makes me wonder then if the TTv6 will be reserved for the GX. Ie all LCs will have the turbo 4, with the hybrid turbo 4 as the top engine. Given the likelihood of the 4Runner name continuing, the differentiation may be size rather than engine.

 

[malden]

The top trim Prado in Japan is $51k USD. That's inline with the top trim 4runner. They're the same car with different sheet metal. Pricing is going to be nearly identical. Next generation, who knows

Look above at the price taken right from Toyota’s webpage in France. The 2023 Prado top trim is 81,050 euros plus options, that is US$91,000 plus options. If you back out all the 20% VAT, that is US$73,000 plus the cost of options. So you are telling me French buyers are paying $22K more for the same product that is $51,000 in Japan and US? Ouch. Euro buyers can’t be happy about that, and it explains why Toyota is selling so few of them in the EU plus Russia, Turkey, Ukraine etc….only 12,500 units in six months. That is probably a month’s worth of sales in the USA.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

He is talking about the 6th gen 4Runner, not the 5th gen. Since the 4th and 5th gen 4Runners were very closely related to the GX, if the Land Cruiser 250 is going to basically be a GX with Toyota badges, then where does the 4Runner fit into the lineup? If the 4Runner is also basically a GX with Toyota badges, then it appears that the LC 250 will, indeed, effectively be a top trim 4Runner. Or to put it a different way, the 6th gen 4Runner will be a stripper LC 250

I get what he was saying. It is the same as calling a Bentley a glammed up VW Phaeton. It is pretty simplistic to judge vehicles based on them sharing a common platform. I suspect there will be substantial differences between the Land Cruiser and 4Runner.

I personally believe the 4Runner will be limited to the 4 cyl engines, probably not get EKDSS, and will have different sheet metal. Calling the LC the top 4Runner trim is about as smart as calling it the new midlevel Tundra.