2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (5 Viewers)

[jayp2]

I was speaking about 2 doors, which based on a quick Google search is about 10% of Wrangler sales.

Even at 10% it still totally eclipses Toyota sales numbers for the lexus school bus form factor.

The statement still holds

The niche market isnt the short to mid wheelbase form factor (LC73 or LC76 equiv).....the niche market is the one that the LC reintroduction falls into

 

[MeWantLC]

So much truth here ! .

PM me pleaase to know more about the year with the Wranlger, please ! .

Thank you !

My father owned a classic for a short period. It’s nothing more than a Wrangler really. And I’ve owned a wrangler for a year. Rough riding and a fairly more difficult to use in everyday life.

When Toyota moved from the 40 to a 60-300 they saw that wagons were the future for the US market. People are not commuting or building businesses or raising families in 2 door Wranglers, Defenders, or 40 series.

The people that want those, are again, a sub group of an even more niche group of buyers.

The new Defender is better adapted to current times because the majority of its buyers are taking road trips where a light duty trail might be involved. But if it gets sticky they’ll likely be okay. All the while being able to have incredible smoothness on road for every day familial duties. I think this is 95% of buyers, so not just me…

You should look at the Defender, it’s been an awesome vehicle really. It’s character is great and I would keep it but my heart is with Toyota because my dad had 2 80 series growing up and those Wagons were great for our family. Just like the new wagons are great for current families.

 

[Phillyd2]

They guys are guessing that the Non Jeep, Non Bronco, School Bus US LC will only have the 4-cylinder

Shortly after the official teaser for the return of the Land Cruiser nameplate in the US market confirmed the close ties with the Lexus GX, a new report suggests that the two SUVs won’t be sharing all of their powertrain options. More specifically, the Toyota Land Cruiser will be reportedly offered with just four-cylinder engines, leaving the twin-turbo V6 to its Lexus sibling.

A leaked document reveals a trio of 4-cylinder powertrain options. The first one code-named “1GD-FTV” is the 2.8-liter turbodiesel from the Hilux and the Fortuner. The “TJA250” is believed to be a turbocharged 2.4-liter petrol from the Tacoma and the Kluger, that could be part of a hybrid powertrain. Finally, the “2TR-FE” is referring to a naturally aspirated 2.7-liter petrol, likely destined for entry-level models. Notably, the twin-turbo 3.4-liter petrol of the 2024 Lexus GX is missing from the list. Although this doesn’t mean it couldn’t be added later on, its omission could serve as an extra point of differentiation between the two.

2025 Toyota Land Cruiser To Reportedly Stick To Just 4-Cylinder Engine Options | Carscoops

Sounds like the new Land Cruiser will miss out on the twin-turbo V6

www.carscoops.com

 

[M1911]

I am not sure if that's the reason they would not come here. If Wrangles and Broncos can pass saftey regulations regarding crash test, the 70 series would as well, they simply need to install a couple extra airbags.

I strongly disagree. The JL Wrangler was introduced in 2018, so it underwent a full redesign, probably starting around 2015. The Bronco was introduced in 2021, so it was designed probably starting around 2018. Both of these vehicles were designed with modern crash test standards in mind.

The 70 Series was introduced in 1984, so it was probably designed starting around 1981.

Crash test standards have changed significantly in the 40+ years since the 70 Series was designed. You can't just slap a few airbags on a vehicle to meet offset crash and side-impact crash standards. It requires designing in from the start.

Same thing with diesels engines, They simply need add def system. Toyota simply needs to stop acting like invalids.

Toyota is simply not going to bring a diesel engine to the US. We will get gas engines and possibly a gas hybrid. But we won't get a diesel.

As for just adding a def system, def systems and the high pressure fuel injection system have been huge reliability problems for diesels in the US. That is true for heavy duty pickups, for large trucks (i.e., semis and the like), and even for tractors. They also significantly reduce fuel economy and significantly increase cost (on the order of $4,000 per engine). The 70 Series is already an expensive vehicle where it is sold.

I know some of you say you really want a 70 Series. But you aren't going to get a new one in the US. It is simply not going to happen. You can find a 25-year-old one that has been imported if you really want one. It won't be much different than what is sold today overseas.

 

[malden]

My father owned a classic for a short period. It’s nothing more than a Wrangler really. And I’ve owned a wrangler for a year. Rough riding and a fairly more difficult to use in everyday life.

When Toyota moved from the 40 to a 60-300 they saw that wagons were the future for the US market. People are not commuting or building businesses or raising families in 2 door Wranglers, Defenders, or 40 series.

The people that want those, are again, a sub group of an even more niche group of buyers.

The new Defender is better adapted to current times because the majority of its buyers are taking road trips where a light duty trail might be involved. But if it gets sticky they’ll likely be okay. All the while being able to have incredible smoothness on road for every day familial duties. I think this is 95% of buyers, so not just me…

You should look at the Defender, it’s been an awesome vehicle really. It’s character is great and I would keep it but my heart is with Toyota because my dad had 2 80 series growing up and those Wagons were great for our family. Just like the new wagons are great for current families.

Clear as a bell. Thanks.

I am surprised Wrangler sells as many 2drs as they do. I test drove one and at 1.9m tall I felt very cramped inside. And I did not care for the manual trans or engine. But I feel my FJ70 is very spacious. The back seats are easy to acces and large. When folded down the cargo space is large. Probably not a great family hauler, but the GX sounds like it would fit your needs well. Good luck.

 

[jayp2]

I strongly disagree. The JL Wrangler was introduced in 2018, so it underwent a full redesign, probably starting around 2015. The Bronco was introduced in 2021, so it was designed probably starting around 2018. Both of these vehicles were designed with modern crash test standards in mind.

The 70 Series was introduced in 1984, so it was probably designed starting around 1981.

Crash test standards have changed significantly in the 40+ years since the 70 Series was designed. You can't just slap a few airbags on a vehicle to meet offset crash and side-impact crash standards. It requires designing in from the start.

Toyota is simply not going to bring a diesel engine to the US. We will get gas engines and possibly a gas hybrid. But we won't get a diesel.

As for just adding a def system, def systems and the high pressure fuel injection system have been huge reliability problems for diesels in the US. That is true for heavy duty pickups, for large trucks (i.e., semis and the like), and even for tractors. They also significantly reduce fuel economy and significantly increase cost (on the order of $4,000 per engine). The 70 Series is already an expensive vehicle where it is sold.

As an owner of one of those high pressure fuel injection diesels complete with def/dpf etc for more than 10 years I can tell you I've had zero issues to speak of

this unloaded 9,000 lb vehicle frequently gets 21-22mpg on the highway

Cummins makes numerous engines for OEM applications and we've seen them partnew with Nissan, Dodge and others for new manufacter vehicles with diesels

If toyota wanted to bring a diesel to the US there are no impediments....whether its their own or a company like Cummins

The fact of the matter is that Toyota wants to sell what they want to sell.....not necessarily what the market wants and would buy hands down

 

[M1911]

Yes, Toyota could completely redesign the 70 Series to meet US crash test standards and then federalize a diesel engine for it and offer it with a manual transmission, brown paint, front and rear lockers, and a winch. But they won't.

We won't get the 70 Series (or something like the 70 Series) here in the US.

 

[malden]

Fascinating recent video shows both the LC300 and FJ70 being made in Japan. The FJ70 is very much a hand made truck and that explains in part why there are 2 year waits in some markets. How are they going to supply a new FJ70 into Japan unless they have planned a new assembly line?

 

[Rednexus]

As an owner of one of those high pressure fuel injection diesels complete with def/dpf etc for more than 10 years I can tell you I've had zero issues to speak of

this unloaded 9,000 lb vehicle frequently gets 21-22mpg on the highway

Cummins makes numerous engines for OEM applications and we've seen them partnew with Nissan, Dodge and others for new manufacter vehicles with diesels

If toyota wanted to bring a diesel to the US there are no impediments....whether its their own or a company like Cummins

The fact of the matter is that Toyota wants to sell what they want to sell.....not necessarily what the market wants and would buy hands down

Are you US-based or non-US based? US diesel emissions standards are among the most strict in the world. Other Japanese automakers like Mazda and Subaru have had successful diesel engines in Europe/Asia that don't make it here due to the difficulty in permitting them. Nissan went through the effort with the 32V Cummins V8 and it barely sold. I've driven the Jeep eco-diesel and while it was torquey AF and fuel efficient, it's a very expensive option (around $8-10K IIRC). GM has some decent lighter-duty Duramax diesels but they don't sell particularly well either. I think Ford canned their smaller F150 PowerStoke due to low sales too.

I live in diesel bro-dozer country and lots of folks around here have PowerStrokes. Cummins, Duramax diesels. The pre-2007.5 diesels sell for over the 2007 MSRP now (like $40K for a nice LBZ Duramax) due to their better reliability associated with earlier EPA standards that are less stringent. 2007.5+ diesels in the USA are a royal pain due to the add-on requirements and EPA mandates for software that kills your power and makes you stop if there is a slightest problem with the emissions systems. I've personally been stuck on the side of the road (rental Fuso box truck) due to a loose connection on an emissions sensor. This would have simply thrown a code in a gas vehicle that could have been fixed any time, but instead is started giving reduced power every few miles until you stopped. On top of the emissions stuff you have to deal with fuel/water separators, fuel gelling in gold climates, glowplugs, etc. No thanks.

Overall, Toyota brining a diesel here would be a big lift for what has proven to be a low-sales and expensive option - none of the light-duty diesel options from Ford, GM, Jeep/Chrysler, or Nissan have really flown off the lots. It's another example of an automaker producing something enthusiasts clammor for ( light duty diesel) and no one buying them.

A better approach would be for EPA to have light duty diesel emissions standards that are consistent with the rest of the world....but they don't. Air quality is prioritized over carbon emissions.

 

[M1911]

A better approach would be for EPA to have light duty diesel emissions standards that are consistent with the rest of the world....but they don't. Air quality is prioritized over carbon emissions.

There are all sorts of regulations that are unique to particular markets, from lights (headlights and taillights) to crash testing to emissions, etc. The difference in regulations from market to market significantly adds to the cost of vehicles. But regulators gonna regulate ...

 

[Rednexus]

There are all sorts of regulations that are unique to particular markets, from lights (headlights and taillights) to crash testing to emissions, etc. The difference in regulations from market to market significantly adds to the cost of vehicles. But regulators gonna regulate ...

Oh yes they do! Most of my career has been helping companies with environmental regulation compliance (non-air, non-vehicle). It's been a good run. Some of the regulations are good and others are totally pointless and redundant but at least it gives me a job!

 

[M1911]

Oh yes they do! Most of my career has been helping companies with environmental regulation compliance (non-air, non-vehicle). It's been a good run. Some of the regulations are good and others are totally pointless and redundant but at least it gives me a job!

My wife spent most of her career doing environmental cleanups (site investigations and remediations). She’s intimately familiar with MA environmental regulations, to the point where sometimes in discussions with MA Dept of Environmental Protection the DEP folks would ask her “so what do you think that regulation means?”

In her opinion, MA DEP used to be reasonable (less so lately) but the less said about the US EPA the better (feds gonna be feds).

 

[jayp2]

Are you US-based or non-US based? US diesel emissions standards are among the most strict in the world. Other Japanese automakers like Mazda and Subaru have had successful diesel engines in Europe/Asia that don't make it here due to the difficulty in permitting them. Nissan went through the effort with the 32V Cummins V8 and it barely sold. I've driven the Jeep eco-diesel and while it was torquey AF and fuel efficient, it's a very expensive option (around $8-10K IIRC). GM has some decent lighter-duty Duramax diesels but they don't sell particularly well either. I think Ford canned their smaller F150 PowerStoke due to low sales too.

I live in diesel bro-dozer country and lots of folks around here have PowerStrokes. Cummins, Duramax diesels. The pre-2007.5 diesels sell for over the 2007 MSRP now (like $40K for a nice LBZ Duramax) due to their better reliability associated with earlier EPA standards that are less stringent. 2007.5+ diesels in the USA are a royal pain due to the add-on requirements and EPA mandates for software that kills your power and makes you stop if there is a slightest problem with the emissions systems. I've personally been stuck on the side of the road (rental Fuso box truck) due to a loose connection on an emissions sensor. This would have simply thrown a code in a gas vehicle that could have been fixed any time, but instead is started giving reduced power every few miles until you stopped. On top of the emissions stuff you have to deal with fuel/water separators, fuel gelling in gold climates, glowplugs, etc. No thanks.

Overall, Toyota brining a diesel here would be a big lift for what has proven to be a low-sales and expensive option - none of the light-duty diesel options from Ford, GM, Jeep/Chrysler, or Nissan have really flown off the lots. It's another example of an automaker producing something enthusiasts clammor for ( light duty diesel) and no one buying them.

A better approach would be for EPA to have light duty diesel emissions standards that are consistent with the rest of the world....but they don't. Air quality is prioritized over carbon emissions.

US, cold climate that regularly drops below -20 in winter

Never an issue.....stay on top of changing filters, pay attention to whats being delivered to fuel station in fall/be sure to have winter diesel in vehicle when temps drop and use healthy amount of power serve.

Most issues I've seen were owner induced.

Its not a terrible lift for Toyota to do diesel if the will power was there from management...the how to is well established and proven by companies like cummins.

They would sell a ton of them in tundra's and overall it would bring the fleet mileage up over the current gas engine offering

Edit: The people who have trouble with diesels are folks that use them for short/stop start errend running and never really run them.....thats a terribad use case for diesel.

The VW TDI community has had same observations on diesels across all generations of emissions controls

 

[Rednexus]

US, cold climate that regularly drops below -20 in winter

Never an issue.....stay on top of changing filters, pay attention to whats being delivered to fuel station in fall/be sure to have winter diesel in vehicle when temps drop and use healthy amount of power serve.

Most issues I've seen were owner induced.

Its not a terrible lift for Toyota to do diesel if the will power was there from management...the how to is well established and proven by companies like cummins.

They would sell a ton of them in tundra's and overall it would bring the fleet mileage up over the current gas engine offering

Glad yours has been good. I also had another issue with a rental 2022 F250 PowerStroke on the water/fuel separator - required disconnecting the battery for it to register that yes, I had drained the water out of it. On a brand new truck with less than 10K miles on it. The truck did have crazy amounts of power, however. Diesels certainly can be good but require lots more maintenance/oversight than a good old gas motor. I'll personally never buy one unless we get a giant camper in the future.

I agree that Toyota could do a diesel, but don't agree that it would be a sales hit. I don't see it out-selling light-duty diesels from Nissan, Ford, GM, and Chrysler (all of which have a reputable and long diesel history and name recognition in the US and still sold slow). Toyota would have to overcome the lack of USA diesel branding, need to make their diesel more complex for USEPA regulations, and then the sticker-shock of which would be a $5K+ option on an already expensive truck.

 

[malden]

US diesel emissions standards are among the most strict in the world.

In Oslo and Copenhagen all diesel vehicles are prohibited. Paris is set to follow suit. Already in Paris you cannot drive a diesel older than 2001. Next year it will be diesels older than 2006. The following year diesels older than 2011 and gas cars older than 2006. There are no exemptions for classic car collectors and most have had to move cars to their country homes if they have one. Lyon and Marseille are doing the same. Hamburg and Stuttgart are headed in this direction.

Those are pretty draconian diesel emissions standards! Feel fortunate for your freedoms in the USA.

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

They guys are guessing that the Non Jeep, Non Bronco, School Bus US LC will only have the 4-cylinder

Shortly after the official teaser for the return of the Land Cruiser nameplate in the US market confirmed the close ties with the Lexus GX, a new report suggests that the two SUVs won’t be sharing all of their powertrain options. More specifically, the Toyota Land Cruiser will be reportedly offered with just four-cylinder engines, leaving the twin-turbo V6 to its Lexus sibling.

A leaked document reveals a trio of 4-cylinder powertrain options. The first one code-named “1GD-FTV” is the 2.8-liter turbodiesel from the Hilux and the Fortuner. The “TJA250” is believed to be a turbocharged 2.4-liter petrol from the Tacoma and the Kluger, that could be part of a hybrid powertrain. Finally, the “2TR-FE” is referring to a naturally aspirated 2.7-liter petrol, likely destined for entry-level models. Notably, the twin-turbo 3.4-liter petrol of the 2024 Lexus GX is missing from the list. Although this doesn’t mean it couldn’t be added later on, its omission could serve as an extra point of differentiation between the two.

2025 Toyota Land Cruiser To Reportedly Stick To Just 4-Cylinder Engine Options | Carscoops

Sounds like the new Land Cruiser will miss out on the twin-turbo V6

www.carscoops.com

That leaked document is clearly not US market specific. Toyota may well just use the 4cyl engines and it will be a big mistake. But I would want a better source before I believe it.

 

[Rednexus]

In Oslo and Copenhagen all diesel vehicles are prohibited. Paris is set to follow suit. Already in Paris you cannot drive a diesel older than 2001. Next year it will be diesels older than 2006. The following year diesels older than 2011 and gas cars older than 2006. There are no exemptions for classic car collectors and most have had to move cars to their country homes if they have one. Lyon and Marseille are doing the same. Hamburg and Stuttgart are headed in this direction.

Those are pretty draconian diesel emissions standards! Feel fortunate for your freedoms in the USA.

Diesel emissions are actually pretty terrible for NOX, diesel particulates, etc that lead to asthma and other lung issues. It's not a big deal here in my rural area where folks can rolll coal but diesel does have quantifiable negative health effects, especially in congested urban areas like Europe.

In all reality, I'm guessing Toyota is betting on their hybrid technology as the future instead of diesels. Most automakers will be abandoning light-duty diesels to focus on EVs and PHEVs. From owning a Toyota hybrid it's is 10X easier to live with than any diesel (better reliability, low emission, takes normal gasoline, great fuel range. great fuel economy). Governments are really pushing EVs (moreso than PHEVs, which is a giant mistake IMO) and making it harder and harder to have any kind of diesel.

 

[jayp2]

Diesel emissions are actually pretty terrible for NOX, DPF, etc that lead to asthma and other lung issues. It's not a big deal here in my rural area where folks can role coal but diesel does have quantifiable negative health effects.

Sucking on a tail pipe qualifies folks for darwin awards.....

Not to get off topic but there's a lot of propaganda about the "large" diameter particulates emitted by older diesels vs the very small diameter particulates emitted by gas engines

The former are easily expelled by the body

The latter travel far deeper into the lungs are are not expelled and have far more detrimental effects.

the near zero emissions propaganda manufacturers pimp is just that....propaganda

There's no shortage of bias in what is regulated/less regulated/deemed acceptable and has been for decades

 

[M1911]

Toyota would have to overcome the lack of USA diesel branding, need to make their diesel more complex for USEPA regulations, and then the sticker-shock of which would be a $5K+ option on an already expensive truck.

Where I live diesel fuel is about 15% more expensive than regular gas. So combine the more expensive fuel with the higher upfront cost and higher maintenance costs makes it hard to make an economic case for a diesel versus a gas or gas hybrid.

 

[malden]

Diesel emissions are actually pretty terrible for NOX, diesel particulates, etc that lead to asthma and other lung issues. It's not a big deal here in my rural area where folks can rolll coal but diesel does have quantifiable negative health effects, especially in congested urban areas like Europe.

The problem is that these regulations/taxes are highly regressive and it is estimated that over 500K people largely from the lowest socio-economic groups and working people will lose their cars with no recompense from the government. Meanwhile the Oligarchs who live in Paris fly their private jets down to Cannes for tea! Moliere said that the greatest of human sicknesses was hypocrisy!