2024 GX/Prado Release and Discussion (4 Viewers)

[malden]

The 70 series is nowhere near as refined as a the current Wrangler/Bronco or whatever else to daily drive.
It won't even come close to selling as much as those do without some re-engineering.

I have a modern BMW sedan, modern Audi sedan, an old Bentley and three vintage 911s, and a vintage FJ70 is my daily driver. There are thousands of guys like me that would scoop up a modern FJ70 in a second flat.

And YES it is a shame they are not bringing in a SWB version LC

 

[Rednexus]

The 70 Series likely not coming here because most Americans have zero interest in a base "work vehicle" (i.e., stripper model). How many base Bronco/Jeeps/etc do you see running around? Very, very few. Your average suburbanite/mall-crawler who buys a Jeep or Bronco that will never so much as see dirt would walk from a bare-bones 70 Series and only buys the Jeep/Bronco because they look badass and have the modern convenience features of a crossover. Americans want big, expensive, loaded, and bloated vehicles. A few die-hard fans would buy a 70 series, but it's a drop in the buckets. Even if Toyota could bring the 70 here there have no where near the production capacity to actually do it.

Putting our Toyota business hat on....why bother with a true Jeep/Bronco competitor? Their current fleet sells very well, they can't meet production demand.....why sink hundreds of millions into R&D on a model you don't even have the capacity to actually build when they sell 100% of the 4Runners, Tundras, Tacos, and GXs they make and could sell way more if the wanted (2022 sales for all 4 were nearly 500K vehicles - just the 4Runner and GX alone were 150K which were damn close to Jeep/Bronco #s). The last thing you want to do as a business is dilute your core money-maker in order to get into a new market.

Another line is that Toyota should do a better job of increasing producing capacity, fixing chip shortages (7 months of waiting for a 2nd key now for our Highlander....) so they would be able to expand their bandwidth, which I would 100% agree with. Ford/Stellantis/GM have done a much better job in that arena.

Just trying to provide some business context here.

 

[malden]

I totally know what you are talking about & definitely think some sort of 70 series like vehicle, or 70 that is safe and passes US regulations would be a dream vehicle.

+1000

I have driven the LCs you own and I love it. It is a great truck, period. The FJ70 fits my use profile better because of the terrain I have to deal with, and I get to town and do everything I need to do with it...except drive 1000 kms on the autoroute. We get pretty worked up about our LCs because we love them and they need to continue and flourish for the next generations. We are the UNESCO looking out for the future of Land Cruisers and who better to do it than people who use them everyday.

 

[jayp2]

The 70 Series likely not coming here because most Americans have zero interest in a base "work vehicle" (i.e., stripper model). How many base Bronco/Jeeps/etc do you see running around? Very, very few.

They're all over the place.....literally

Ford sold 100k each year since reintroduction.

Jeep has sold over 1100 Jeeps each month for pushing ten years.

 

[malden]

Even if Toyota could bring the 70 here there have no where near the production capacity to actually do it.

Production bottleneck is a problem though Toyota is reintroducing the FJ70 into Japan so they must have some way to make them.

I have driven a modern FJ70 and I would not call it a stripper model though that is the trim level I would choose The Limited Anniversary edition FJ76 sold in Australia that serves as the premise for the new Japan release looks to be at a standard equal to the 4Runners.

Your point that, unable to deliver the models they have, Toyota does not really need either sale stimulus or the cost of new development is a good one. But the FJ70 is a model they already have. They just need to get the thing into the States. If the 4Runner moves to Mexico, the open space might be available to make FJ70s in Japan. I am not discounting the challenges, but they certainly can be mediated and overcome.

 

[Rednexus]

They're all over the place.....literally

Ford sold 100k each year since reintroduction.

Jeep has sold over 1100 Jeeps each month for pushing ten years.

Very few base models around here...almost all are the mid to higher tiers. I've deen maybe 1 legit stripper Bronco.

 

[OGBeno]

Production bottleneck is a problem though Toyota is reintroducing the FJ70 into Japan so they must have some way to make them.

I have driven a modern FJ70 and I would not call it a stripper model though that is the trim level I would choose The Limited Anniversary edition FJ76 sold in Australia that serves as the premise for the new Japan release looks to be at a standard equal to the 4Runners.

Your point that, unable to deliver the models they have, Toyota does not really need either sale stimulus or the cost of new development is a good one. But the FJ70 is a model they already have. They just need to get the thing into the States. If the 4Runner moves to Mexico, the open space might be available to make FJ70s in Japan. I am not discounting the challenges, but they certainly can be mediated and overcome.

There are no FJ7x anythings today.

Anything associated with a 7x series with an F series engine were discontinued in 1994.

The 4Runner is not moving manufacture to Mexico.

The 7x is not coming to the US, ever.

Get your information straight, please.

 

[Jetboy]

The 70 Series likely not coming here because most Americans have zero interest in a base "work vehicle" (i.e., stripper model). How many base Bronco/Jeeps/etc do you see running around? Very, very few. Your average suburbanite/mall-crawler who buys a Jeep or Bronco that will never so much as see dirt would walk from a bare-bones 70 Series and only buys the Jeep/Bronco because they look badass and have the modern convenience features of a crossover. Americans want big, expensive, loaded, and bloated vehicles. A few die-hard fans would buy a 70 series, but it's a drop in the buckets. Even if Toyota could bring the 70 here there have no where near the production capacity to actually do it.

Putting our Toyota business hat on....why bother with a true Jeep/Bronco competitor? Their current fleet sells very well, they can't meet production demand.....why sink hundreds of millions into R&D on a model you don't even have the capacity to actually build when they sell 100% of the 4Runners, Tundras, Tacos, and GXs they make and could sell way more if the wanted (2022 sales for all 4 were nearly 500K vehicles - just the 4Runner and GX alone were 150K which were damn close to Jeep/Bronco #s). The last thing you want to do as a business is dilute your core money-maker in order to get into a new market.

Another line is that Toyota should do a better job of increasing producing capacity, fixing chip shortages (7 months of waiting for a 2nd key now for our Highlander....) so they would be able to expand their bandwidth, which I would 100% agree with. Ford/Stellantis/GM have done a much better job in that arena.

Just trying to provide some business context here.

I think it's a regional difference. In the western USA - they are everywhere. Wranglers are the 17th most popular model in the USA. Far surpassing the 4Runner, tundra, sequoia, 4 times the volume of the GX, about 50 times the volume of LX. More than Honda Civic. I can't imagine Honda saying "Sorry guys, there's just no business case to keep producing the civic."

If Toyota can make a business case for sequoia that sells around 10k vehicles per year - they can make a case for a 100k unit per year model. Especially when it'll just be a reskin on an existing platform. It's not a heavy lift. Take the new LC, lop that giant (empty) front nose off the body to have decent approach angle, make a top panel that comes off instead of a panoramic roof - it's already engineered for a panoramic roof - just put a drop in panel, borrow the TRD Pro suspension from Tacoma, front locker, and big tires. Make the doors come off without too much effort. That's really all it would take. All the difficult engineering is done.

 

[Rednexus]

I think it's a regional difference. In the western USA - they are everywhere. Wranglers are the 17th most popular model in the USA. Far surpassing the 4Runner, tundra, sequoia, 4 times the volume of the GX, about 50 times the volume of LX. More than Honda Civic. I can't imagine Honda saying "Sorry guys, there's just no business case to keep producing the civic."

If Toyota can make a business case for sequoia that sells around 10k vehicles per year - they can make a case for a 100k unit per year model. Especially when it'll just be a reskin on an existing platform. It's not a heavy lift. Take the new LC, lop that giant (empty) front nose off the body to have decent approach angle, make a top panel that comes off instead of a panoramic roof - it's already engineered for a panoramic roof - just put a drop in panel, borrow the TRD Pro suspension from Tacoma, front locker, and big tires. Make the doors come off without too much effort. That's really all it would take. All the difficult engineering is done.

However, they've obviously done the cost benefit analysis already and decided it isn't core to their business, or they would already be producing it. I am providing some context for their business decisions. Whether it is a good or bad decision is a whole different question. Businesses make bad or wrong decisions all the time. I'm sure there is also a lot of internal politicking at Toyota that resulted in us getting a new low-volume Sequoia (that I think is ugly/expensive and will never buy) but not a true LC/Offroader.

 

[TexasFunRunner]

Production bottleneck is a problem though Toyota is reintroducing the FJ70 into Japan so they must have some way to make them.

The Limited Anniversary edition FJ76 sold in Australia that serves as the premise for the new Japan release looks to be at a standard equal to the 4Runners.

Toyota sources in the US also alluded to the FJ76 to serve as the premise for the new US release looks.

Call it FJ70, call it Rankle 70, call it Nanamaru, or any other term it is called in Japan, reading between the lines I suspect:

International LC Prado = US LC = Japanese FJ70 / Rankle 70 / Nanamaru

I'm thinking they are basically all one in the same, the differences being a few stamped sheet metal parts, lights, and powertrain.

 

[malden]

I call it pretty awesome....

 

[Jetboy]

However, they've obviously done the cost benefit analysis already and decided it isn't core to their business, or they would already be producing it. I am providing some context for their business decisions. Whether it is a good or bad decision is a whole different question. Businesses make bad or wrong decisions all the time.

I'm not convinced that they have. I think there's a big void between how Toyota corporate understands the USA market and how the USA market actually is. Remember that this is the same company that put a 157hp 4cyl in a 4700lb 4Runner and tried to sell it in the USA and currently have the worst EV on the market. I'm not sure where the breakdown is, but there's a missing connection somewhere. Toyota does very well in some segments. The appliancemobile - Toyota kills it. I don't think the company really understands this market segment in the USA.

 

[Brown98LC]

I call it pretty awesome....

I'll be honest
The 76 is my least favorite 70

After the amazing 80 series & 105

The 76 feels like such a downgrade honestly.

The only perk is it has more modern engines I guess.

 

[Rednexus]

I'm not convinced that they have. I think there's a big void between how Toyota corporate understands the USA market and how the USA market actually is. Remember that this is the same company that put a 157hp 4cyl in a 4700lb 4Runner and tried to sell it in the USA and currently have the worst EV on the market. I'm not sure where the breakdown is, but there's a missing connection somewhere. Toyota does very well in some segments. The appliancemobile - Toyota kills it. I don't think the company really understands this market segment in the USA.

Mostly likely Toyota dealers, the USA-based design teams, marketing folks, etc do understand it but the decisions made at the executive level don't agree or the C-suite decided to focus on other things (probably based on an assessment finding it not core to their business goals). This is probably due to Toyota being a global company relative to Ford/Stellatnis which are still very US-centric (assuming Jeep gets a lot of north American autonomy).

It's all somewhat moot anyway as until they increase their production capacity, they really can't make another model anyway. They may also be just riding out economic cycles and not bothering to invest in big $$$$ production capacity given the market will eventually have a downturn in the future. That would result in higher profits now (sugar high of selling all the product you can make and pocketing the cash instead of reinvesting the profits into expansion) and later during an eventual downturn (not having un-used production capacity and high-interest loans on something you then have to idle or slow down).

We're in the "new norm" of shortages of things we want and it's not going completely until there is a big economic downturn. Companies will have limited incentive to make true consumer-pleasing goods until there is a shortage of consumers rather than products.

 

[Gr8Daneger]

I call it pretty awesome....

If I could import this one, or the tan one, and keep it in a storage unit for 20 yrs until I can drive it I would!

 

[Jetboy]

Mostly likely Toyota dealers, the USA-based design teams, marketing folks, etc do understand it but the decisions made at the executive level don't agree or the C-suite decided to focus on other things (probably based on an assessment finding it not core to their business goals). This is probably due to Toyota being a global company relative to Ford/Setllatnis which are still very US-centric (assuming Jeep gets a lot of north American autonomy).

It's all somewhat moot anyway as until they increase their production capacity, they really can't make another model anyway. They may also be just riding out economic cycles and not bothering to invest in big $$$$ production capacity given the market will eventually have a downturn in the future. That would result in higher profits now (sugar high of selling all the product you can make and pocketing the cash instead of reinvesting the profits into expansion) and later during an eventual downturn (not having un-used production capacity and high-interest loans on something you then have to idle or slow down).

We're in the "new norm" of shortages of things we want and it's not going completely until there is a big economic downturn. Companies will have limited incentive to make true consumer-pleasing goods until there is a shortage of consumers rather than products.

The reason I question even the American side is the Tundra. I like the powertrain and the GA-F platform. But the part that's done by the north america team - the cabin, the bed, the layout - it's just not great compared to the domestic trucks. They could have basically copied any of them with Toyota quality and done better. I'd rather have the old body on the new truck. Sales are good, but not setting the world on fire. It seems like they built a truck that the people who really want a Toyota and need a full size truck will buy, and probably no one else.

The new Land Cruiser is possibly the same. I think the GX looks great for what it is. But I'm not sure we really need something different from the LC300 to be an american Land Cruiser. It could just be a LC300 in a lower and mid range trims. The retro face haphazardly applied to a the GX/Prado may do more harm than good. IMO - choose one or the other. Either it's a modern Land Cruiser wagon, or make a legitimate 40 series styled offroader. For me, the mashup attempt represents a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to have a heritage inspired model in the USA. Some odd looking round headlights that don't fit aesthetically on a wagon is no more an FJ40 than a Chevy HHR was a modern 40's suburban.

 

[MeWantLC]

Could you please elaborate on these two points?

Thank you !

Remember that this is the same company that (1) put a 157hp 4cyl in a 4700lb 4Runner and tried to sell it in the USA and

(2) currently have the worst EV on the market.

 

[MeWantLC]

Toyota reminds me of an "International" company that I worked 8 years with. My summary was after 8 years, and the main reason why I left, it was not really "International", it was from XXX country, but had international business. In comparison, the company I have worked now for 20 years, IS an international company and as such, has succeeded , and failed, internationally. It is not always easy to get the Merican way. My first company was never ever able to get it, and totally failed here. They are however, VERY successful in many parts of the globe !

 

[ThRiLlGmYr]

I call it pretty awesome....

Only die hards will buy that truck. It looks straight out of the 1990's. People buy Broncos and Wranglers because they are retro/cool. The 70 series is just retro.

 

[jayp2]

Only die hards will buy that truck. It looks straight out of the 1990's. People buy Broncos and Wranglers because they are retro/cool. The 70 series is just retro.

I'd buy it in a second....its perfect