- Thread starter
- #21
If the rear springs were placed on the wrong sides and are moved to the correct sides, do you think an alignment would need to be redone since it will change ride heights on both front and back?
2021 LC 200 HE OME BP51 side to side measurement (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ronnunan
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bloc
SILVER Star
Interesting. Would you mind telling me how properly functioning KDSS can induce a lean on a suspension that is correct otherwise?
(If you need a reference on how the system works there are images in this thread)
Anatomy of a KDSS valve
I think you guys and gals are gonna like this.. HUGE thanks to @jimoldguy who shipped me his rust-damaged KDSS valve after it was replaced for him with a new one. That can't have been cheap. Fortunately for me he kept the old one, and when I PM'd asking if he'd send it for a project I'm working...
forum.ih8mud.com
bloc
SILVER Star
It depends on the severity of the lean, but camber was likely set to spec with the vehicle tilted to one side by x degrees. If you level the vehicle the camber on both front wheels will be off by that same value x.
Edit: big picture, 3/4” is not a lot of lean though.
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In my experience so far, in most cases where I have installed a lift suspension on a 200, this lean was introduced. In some cases coilover preload / adj corrected it and/or incorrect rear springs installation correction - in others where the suspension install was flawless and it still leaned - it was fixed by the KDSS lean method. <this is why we make sure the vehicle is driven about 1000-2000kms before we make any further adjustments, lets the suspension and springs settle.Interesting. Would you mind telling me how properly functioning KDSS can induce a lean on a suspension that is correct otherwise?
(If you need a reference on how the system works there are images in this thread)
Anatomy of a KDSS valve
I think you guys and gals are gonna like this.. HUGE thanks to @jimoldguy who shipped me his rust-damaged KDSS valve after it was replaced for him with a new one. That can't have been cheap. Fortunately for me he kept the old one, and when I PM'd asking if he'd send it for a project I'm working...
I have also seen a few cruisers lean on their own, no lift, no work done on suspension and the culprit was found out to be the kdss system, valve and accumulators replaced all good.
Next time a cruiser comes in with a lean, I will share here
Ideally, yes a front wheel alignment will be required and should be done - practically it may be unnoticeable
bloc
SILVER Star
I’d still like to know what about a healthy KDSS causes the lean. I’d even settle for a description of why a system that worked at stock height suddenly leans with a lift, if the rest of that system is healthy. Due to the stainless steel bellows in the accumulators ours don’t slowly lose nitrogen pressure like AHC globes do with their rubber diaphragms.In my experience so far, in most cases where I have installed a lift suspension on a 200, this lean was introduced. In some cases coilover preload / adj corrected it and/or incorrect rear springs installation correction - in others where the suspension install was flawless and it still leaned - it was fixed by the KDSS lean method. <this is why we make sure the vehicle is driven about 1000-2000kms before we make any further adjustments, lets the suspension and springs settle.
I have also seen a few cruisers lean on their own, no lift, no work done on suspension and the culprit was found out to be the kdss system, valve and accumulators replaced all good.
Next time a cruiser comes in with a lean, I will share here
As stated earlier, plenty of stock cruisers developed a lean before KDSS was introduced in 2008.. Toyota’s method of building coils and speccing different ones per side appears plenty capable of causing it on a stock-height vehicle.
The “KDSS lean method” 100% uses the system in a way it wasn’t intended, loading the sway bars to fight a lean caused by something else. By twisting up the suspension then closing the shutter valves pressure is locked into parts of the system that would normally stabilize slowly by themselves, putting long-term forces on the ram seals and other components. See my post on the operation of the internal balance valves.
And while this is an anecdote it didn’t come close to sorting out the lean (long term) on my stock 2013 with ~105k miles.. which is what launched me down the path of understanding how these systems work in the first place. Replacing the springs did.
Dozens if not hundreds of people on this board used to be told their post-lift lean was caused by KDSS only to sort it out with ensuring the springs were in the correct spot, and if not, adjusting the collars in the front and installing trim packers in the rear. Those same people then balanced the KDSS system as Toyota specifies and are trucking along just fine.. for a whole lot of miles.
The huge caveat being the system’s weakness resisting corrosion and catastrophic problems caused by resulting leaks.. but that doesn’t qualify as a healthy system.
any vehicle can lean if a spring sags, don't know what you're on about
plus, maybe he kdss isn't healthy anymore thats why it causes to lean?
maybe lifting causes imbalance at the sway bars which in turn leans the vehicle - but what i know is, adjusting using the balance screws correctly doesn't cause any extra load of on the kdss system
as i said before if the suspension install isn't correct, that should be dealt with first.
plus, maybe he kdss isn't healthy anymore thats why it causes to lean?
maybe lifting causes imbalance at the sway bars which in turn leans the vehicle - but what i know is, adjusting using the balance screws correctly doesn't cause any extra load of on the kdss system
as i said before if the suspension install isn't correct, that should be dealt with first.
I'm with @bloc on this.
IMO a functioning KDSS system cannot cause a lean, nor can it be used to fix one. I tried several times to fix my lean, to no avail. The system eventually balances to whatever the springs are doing. There is no "adjusting", you open the bleeders, let it balance, then close them.
IMO a functioning KDSS system cannot cause a lean, nor can it be used to fix one. I tried several times to fix my lean, to no avail. The system eventually balances to whatever the springs are doing. There is no "adjusting", you open the bleeders, let it balance, then close them.
bloc
SILVER Star
