2013 LX 570 Drivability Issue (13 Viewers)

[jtcu]

I just purchased a 2013 LX 570 130k miles and discovered a issue afterwards that no one has been able to diagnose. When driving, some bumps in the road feel quite harsh and there is a shudder sensation (almost the feel of a transmission slipping). Doesn't seem to happen on smooth roads, and not usually noticeable on the interstate (which is why it was missed prior to purchase) I've shifted into neutral on one particular stretch of road where it is most noticeable and it still happens. I've replaced the accumulator globes, taken it to the Lexus dealer and even purchased new tires. None of those have helped and the new tires (more aggressive tread) have actually made the issue worse. No noticeable difference when changing from comfort to sport. When I changed the accumulator globes the fluid appeared to be new. Tonight I plan on flushing out the hydraulic fluid and replacing with the Toyota fluid in hopes they just replaced it with the wrong type of fluid and it's causing the issues. I ordered and should receive the ecu to usb cable by this weekend. I've already checked with the dealer on a return period no such luck, and since no one has been able to diagnose the issue I can't go to them with that either. If anyone has any other ideas I'd be thrilled to hear them.

 

[1world1love]

I experienced the same thing in my 13 LX. It was only occasionally and difficult to reproduce. Although I did not swap the globes, I did have many different services and none seemed to help.

I have now come to the conclusion that it was simply the effect of the 20" wheels and dumb luck of hitting a bump a certain way. The reason I believe this is that while it would reliably happen randomly once or twice a week, since I switched to 17s, it is smooth as butter and I have not experienced anything close to it again.

And while you might assume that this is because I am not driving it as much due to the lockdown, I normally only drive it on weekends anyways, and I am averaging about the same mileage now as before the switch to 17s.

Could be coincidence, but I absolutely despise how 20s felt on this truck. There is not nearly enough sidewall for a vehicle of this weight. IMO.

OTOH, it could be complete coincidence, but everybody in my family has noticed that it doesn't happen any more.

 

[jtcu]

I experienced the same thing in my 13 LX. It was only occasionally and difficult to reproduce. Although I did not swap the globes, I did have many different services and none seemed to help.

I have now come to the conclusion that it was simply the effect of the 20" wheels and dumb luck of hitting a bump a certain way. The reason I believe this is that while it would reliably happen randomly once or twice a week, since I switched to 17s, it is smooth as butter and I have not experienced anything close to it again.

And while you might assume that this is because I am not driving it as much due to the lockdown, I normally only drive it on weekends anyways, and I am averaging about the same mileage now as before the switch to 17s.

Could be coincidence, but I absolutely despise how 20s felt on this truck. There is not nearly enough sidewall for a vehicle of this weight. IMO.

OTOH, it could be complete coincidence, but everybody in my family has noticed that it doesn't happen any more.

I wish it was that infrequent but it happens consistently enough for several of the technicians to notice it and replicate it. I switched from the stock tires to the bfgoodrich lt285 55 r20 as suggested elsewhere on the forum but it only seemed to make the problem more noticeable.

 

[TeCKis300]

Part of the trouble with finding a diagnoses, I think you'll agree, is trying to describe the problem.

Based on your description, it seems like you highly suspect the problem to be within the suspension? Not the drivetrain as you've put it in neutral and had the same symptoms.

Thinking out loud here to help frame the issue. If you can continue to describe the symptoms, that would go a ways to help narrowing the problem.

Putting the vehicle in neutral does isolate the engine. Everything after the engine, namely the driveline including transmission, transfer case, driveshafts, axles and CV joints can be contributors. Does it only happen in steady state? Coasting? What speeds? More so when accelerating? Decelerating? Cornering?

If suspension, does the harshness or shudder come from the front or rear end of the vehicle? Whole car? Is it sharp expansion joints that result in a harsh jolt? Is it uneven roads that cause harmonics and vibration? Are you feeling this through the steering wheel, pedal, or seat? Can rear passengers feel this?

 

[jtcu]

Part of the trouble with finding a diagnoses, I think you'll agree, is trying to describe the problem.

Based on your description, it seems like you highly suspect the problem to be within the suspension? Not the drivetrain as you've put it in neutral and had the same symptoms.

Thinking out loud here to help frame the issue. If you can continue to describe the symptoms, that would go a ways to help narrowing the problem.

Putting the vehicle in neutral does isolate the engine. Everything after the engine, namely the driveline including transmission, transfer case, driveshafts, axles and CV joints can be contributors. Does it only happen in steady state? Coasting? What speeds? More so when accelerating? Decelerating? Cornering?

If suspension, does the harshness or shudder come from the front or rear end of the vehicle? Whole car? Is it sharp expansion joints that result in a harsh jolt? Is it uneven roads that cause harmonics and vibration? Are you feeling this through the steering wheel, pedal, or seat? Can rear passengers feel this?

The reason I believe it to be suspension related would be that it doesn't seem to happen on smooth roads, to me the feel is more towards the front drivers side, but passengers can feel the "shudder" it in their seat as well. The manager at the tire shop said it felt like something wrong with the 4wd as if the wheels tried to go in different directions when going over a ridge in the road. I'm not sure if the differential is worth checking? It is noticeable above 30mph or so, ridges seem to be the most likely if I had to nail it down. The worst road seems to be one that has buckled and also when going over the bridge to the local lexus dealership it happened at almost every joint in the bridge. Thank you for taking the time to help, I'm getting gaslighted by the car for sure.
EDIT: I've also been torn between thinking the feeling is near the front of the car (maybe wishful thinking that it was a strut) and feeling as if rear wheels are breaking loose.

 

[coleAK]

Just from the limited info given sounds less like AHC and more like bushings, transfer case, driveshafts, axles, CV joints,...

 

[jtcu]

Just from the limited info given sounds less like AHC and more like bushings, transfer case, driveshafts, axles, CV joints,...

Quite possibly, I don't have any noticeable noises associated with it or it may be easier to diagnose.

 

[TeCKis300]

Is it a single sharp jolt or does the shudder reverberate after? Can you feel it through the steering wheel?

 

[jtcu]

Is it a single sharp jolt or does the shudder reverberate after? Can you feel it through the steering wheel?

Gonna go for a ride and report back.

 

[afgman786]

If you're getting a feeling of rear wheels breaking... have you checked your motor mounts? If the motor has sunk a little by tilting forward it affects everything else in your driveline and could potentially be the cause of the symptoms you're describing.

 

[jtcu]

If you're getting a feeling of rear wheels breaking... have you checked your motor mounts? If the motor has sunk a little by tilting forward it affects everything else in your driveline and could potentially be the cause of the symptoms you're describing.

I will look at the motor mounts and see if I notice anything. I just got back and it definitely feels as if the back wheels are breaking loose, I found a specific spot in the road where I was able to keep driving over it different ways and it happened under acceleration (worst) and while coasting. It was a whole car feeling not a wheel or seat only but more like the whole car was being shook.

 

[jtcu]

If you're getting a feeling of rear wheels breaking... have you checked your motor mounts? If the motor has sunk a little by tilting forward it affects everything else in your driveline and could potentially be the cause of the symptoms you're describing.

Engine seems to be pretty stationary on startup and when giving it some gas, I believe these are the motor mounts?

 

[grinchy]

So does it pitch left right or up down? many of your symptoms could be a bad alignment, particularly the bridge joint description. A screwed up thrust angle does that on a rwd vehicle.

 

[jtcu]

So does it pitch left right or up down? many of your symptoms could be a bad alignment, particularly the bridge joint description. A screwed up thrust angle does that on a rwd vehicle.

Thanks for shooting out some ideas, best way I can describe it is a shudder like the rear wheels being pulled or losing traction similar to wheel hop in a rwd car. I had it aligned with the new tires 3 days ago and after the new tires it was even more noticeable.

 

[TeCKis300]

Does the vehicle have any history of an accident or major suspension work?

I'm not clear as to what you're saying. Is it a vibration, impact harshness, or instability? Or a little bit of everything?

If you were to go over rolling gutters or heaves that cause the suspension to really compress/cycle, is there any issue?

Is it more high frequency or sharp impacts that cause an issue?

A car can be aligned but still have bad alignment if there is a suspenion link, joint, or bearing that is not holding alignment. There's no real known vulnerabilities in chassis with normal driving however. There has been cases of rear wheel bearings going bad at higher mileage. Perhaps that's a possibility based on your description. It would help if you can offer commentary on the specific questions as we can deduct better that way based on symptoms.

 

[jtcu]

Does the vehicle have any history of an accident or major suspension work?

I'm not clear as to what you're saying. Is it a vibration, impact harshness, or instability? Or a little bit of everything?

If you were to go over rolling gutters or heaves that cause the suspension to really compress/cycle, is there any issue?

Is it more high frequency or sharp impacts that cause an issue?

A car can be aligned but still have bad alignment if there is a suspenion link, joint, or bearing that is not holding alignment. There's no real known vulnerabilities in chassis with normal driving however. There has been cases of rear wheel bearings going bad at higher mileage. Perhaps that's a possibility based on your description. It would help if you can offer commentary on the specific questions as we can deduct better that way based on symptoms.

I've only had it for about 300 miles at this point, no documented history of accident and no visible difference in panels and everything visible appears to be clear of damage underneath. The Lexus dealer did notice the hydraulic actuator had been replaced at some point but they tested it and it was fine. It isn't a vibration, it isn't speed dependent and in no ways constant. To me it feels like the rear wheels shudder over ridges in the road.

 

[grinchy]

measure your wheels inset at the rear relative to the fender. is the axle centered?
go to the same rold and try to replicate in high mode
do you have a bent rim?
try to swap rear tires? Try the spare?

 

[jtcu]

measure your wheels inset at the rear relative to the fender. is the axle centered?
go to the same rold and try to replicate in high mode
do you have a bent rim?
try to swap rear tires? Try the spare?

Thanks, I'll get the measurements tomorrow, but the rims were inspected during the new tire install.

 

[mcgaskins]

Check the rear backing plates which may have rusted and are failing along with the wheel bearings. I know some 200s have experienced premature failure due to the backing plates rusting out.

 

[jtcu]

Check the rear backing plates which may have rusted and are failing along with the wheel bearings. I know some 200s have experienced premature failure due to the backing plates rusting out.

Not much rust on this one