200 Series (VDJ200) Vibration - URGENT HELP PLEASE

[bundynice]

I need some help, as my mechanic is out of ideas.

A quick background.
I have just had a full engine replacement (including new turbos, injectors, alternator, radiator, intercooler, air intake, and snorkel). While they were in there, they also did my DPFs, auto trans mounts, and a diff drop.

The issue
I got the car back 3 weeks ago, and the engine is running smoothly as silk at idle.
Vibration scenario 1 - Slow pull-away vibration/shudder - When I am rolling at idle there is a bit of a vibration/shudder - not in the steering wheel or dash, it is like a whole car / under-the-seat vibration (i.e. no accelerator, just foot off the brake and rolling away). When I turn off the Aircon it stops. When I accelerate it stops. It seems to be when the engine is under medium load.

Vibration scenario 2 - 100km/hr vibration - When I am driving on the highway and building up to 100km/hr I feel a vibration coming. It starts shaking the car, not violently but enough that all passengers notice. It is like a shaking/shudder (around 1,800 rpm in 5th gear). It stops when I take it out of 5th gear (and put it in manual mode 4th gear and revs go up to 2,500 rpm). It also stops when I am going downhill at 100km/hr and unload the engine, but then starts again when I go up a hill and start loading the engine up again.

Attempts by the mechanic to resolve so far
They have balanced and rotated the wheels, they have checked all the bolts are tight, they have removed the front tail shaft and taken it for a drive (still vibrates), they have removed the rear tail shaft and taken it for a drive (still vibrates), they told me the rear shocks had worn bushes so those have been replaced (still vibrates). They are now telling me it is my tires (even though they have been balanced and rotated this week, and also they are saying my rear shocks have little resistance so it must be them. I am refusing to get new tires, but might get the rear shocks done (although I doubt it will fix the problem). They have also told me the aircon bearing is tight, and because turning it off at low speed stops the vibration it could be that (but turning it off at high speeds doesn't stop that vibration so I don't think that is the issue).

So I need some help. What could it be??
My thoughts on possible issues
- Could it be the diff drop - I bought the diff drop kit online and supplied it to the mechanic. It was for my make and model, but could they have installed it incorrectly, or could it be causing a misalignment of the driveline??
- Could it be the auto trans mounts they installed - they supplied and installed these, could they have done that incorrectly, or could it be causing a misalignment?
- Could there be something in the engine not installed correctly - Could it be a harmonic balancer or something in the engine not installed correctly?

Apologies for the long thread but I am an engineer, and just trying to attack this issue logically. Thought the more info the better.

I would be super grateful for any advice, ideas, etc. I am based in Brisbane, Australia

 

[Workhorse]

Was your engine dusted? Why did the engine need replaced? Who replaced the engine (Toyota or independent shop) and related? Did they use a Factory Toyota long block and all other parts? We definitely need more info and specifics to help. Also, have you posted this in the FB page for 200's downunder? Log into Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/200seriesowners

Also, how many Kms on your truck? What else has been modified that may cause vibrations or other similar issues?

 

[Sandroad]

From what has been described so far, I suspect it’s engine related. Something about the engine or installation is setting up a vibration under some conditions. What parts in a diesel engine and which of the new accessory parts installed are most likely to cause a vibration?

 

[TheComedian]

Hmm so lets evaluate the situation.

- Before it was good. So probably everything that stayed in the car isn’t the cause.
- you say it only comes when the car is rolling so I would cross out the engine itself (btw what caused the need for an engine change since I have the feeling everything else on my GX trim diesel will fail before the engine doesn’t- maybe only the H150 trans will live longer..)
- dpf shouldn’t do anything with vibrations
- the trans mounts had been only a replacement but haven’t changed the position itself right?

-> so in my eyes the only thing left is the diff drop (here again since I am curious…why?). Since you get vibration at different rpm and speeds I would definitely check if the the angles between gearbox and diff are exactly parallel to each other since a slight angle can/will cause that one side of the cardan will spin in a different way than the other one wich can cause vibrations.
But since english isn’t my first language I leave this video heare wich explains way better what I want to say about the angles…
Old but gold

 

[bundynice]

Was your engine dusted? Why did the engine need replaced? Who replaced the engine (Toyota or independent shop) and related? Did they use a Factory Toyota long block and all other parts? We definitely need more info and specifics to help. Also, have you posted this in the FB page for 200's downunder? Log into Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/groups/200seriesowners

Also, how many Kms on your truck? What else has been modified that may cause vibrations or other similar issues?

Hi thanks for your reply.

Yes engine was dusted by the previous owner. All the manifolds etc were cleaned up when I bought the car, so I had no idea, until running the car for around 30,000km when I started getting some rattles. Engine was fully rebuilt by an accredited Toyota mechanic, using OME parts.

Other mods only include suspension. There was no vibration before these works were carried out. Car now has 250,000km.

Thanks for the idea of posting to the facebook page, I will do that aswell.

 

[bundynice]

Hmm so lets evaluate the situation.

- Before it was good. So probably everything that stayed in the car isn’t the cause.
- you say it only comes when the car is rolling so I would cross out the engine itself (btw what caused the need for an engine change since I have the feeling everything else on my GX trim diesel will fail before the engine doesn’t- maybe only the H150 trans will live longer..)
- dpf shouldn’t do anything with vibrations
- the trans mounts had been only a replacement but haven’t changed the position itself right?

-> so in my eyes the only thing left is the diff drop (here again since I am curious…why?). Since you get vibration at different rpm and speeds I would definitely check if the the angles between gearbox and diff are exactly parallel to each other since a slight angle can/will cause that one side of the cardan will spin in a different way than the other one wich can cause vibrations.
But since english isn’t my first language I leave this video heare wich explains way better what I want to say about the angles…
Old but gold

This is a great video. Thanks so much.

I hole hartedly agree that this is inline with my thoughts aswell (i.e. nothing has changed accept the driveline changes to trans mounts, and diff drop).

i will do some more research on diff drops, to see if some process has been missed.

 

[Sandroad]

Hmm so lets evaluate the situation.

- Before it was good. So probably everything that stayed in the car isn’t the cause.
- you say it only comes when the car is rolling so I would cross out the engine itself (btw what caused the need for an engine change since I have the feeling everything else on my GX trim diesel will fail before the engine doesn’t- maybe only the H150 trans will live longer..)
- dpf shouldn’t do anything with vibrations
- the trans mounts had been only a replacement but haven’t changed the position itself right?

-> so in my eyes the only thing left is the diff drop (here again since I am curious…why?). Since you get vibration at different rpm and speeds I would definitely check if the the angles between gearbox and diff are exactly parallel to each other since a slight angle can/will cause that one side of the cardan will spin in a different way than the other one wich can cause vibrations.
But since english isn’t my first language I leave this video heare wich explains way better what I want to say about the angles…
Old but gold

Interesting video. But if the vibration is in the driveline, why does it stop from turning off the air conditioner or from downshifting 5 -> 4, both of which change engine rpm without changing vehicle speed or driveline load. Maybe some normal engine resonance at certain rpms trigger an abnormal vibration in the driveline made possible by the diff drop? Then even a slight rpm change would stop the resonance?

 

[hdj105]

Are the active engine mounts working correctly, i.e. was the vacuum plumbing to the engine mounts reinstalled properly?

 

[LX Cruiser]

Are the active engine mounts working correctly, i.e. was the vacuum plumbing to the engine mounts reinstalled properly?

The new transmission mounts were my first thought.

Are the engine mounts new, too, @bundynice? Worth checking them as well.

The first issue may be engine mounts, and the second transmission mounts.

 

[Boston Mangler]

I know this sounds nuts… BUT…

Since you mention is goes away when you shut AC off, I had similar issue when I first picked up mine with 213k

Crazy vibration in steering wheel that I was 100% sure was driveline related, it was BAD!

Read somewhere on here, the HVAC fan behind the glovebox can go bad, and cause the vibes. I was 98% sure that wasn’t the issue, but when I took it apart, the bearing in my AC fan was absolutely toast.

I installed a new OEM fan and ALL the vibes completely disappeared.

Was very bizarre, but since you mention it goes away when ya shut the ac off, might be worth looking into

 

[bundynice]

Are the active engine mounts working correctly, i.e. was the vacuum plumbing to the engine mounts reinstalled properly?

Yes new engine mounts installed. And those have been checked. Not sure about vacuum plumbing. Will get that looked at tomorrow.

 

[bundynice]

The new transmission mounts were my first

thought.

Are the engine mounts new, too, @bundynice? Worth checking them as well.

The first issue may be engine mounts, and the second transmission mounts.

Yes checked trans mounts aswell

 

[bundynice]

I know this sounds nuts… BUT…

Since you mention is goes away when you shut AC off, I had similar issue when I first picked up mine with 213k

Crazy vibration in steering wheel that I was 100% sure was driveline related, it was BAD!

Read somewhere on here, the HVAC fan behind the glovebox can go bad, and cause the vibes. I was 98% sure that wasn’t the issue, but when I took it apart, the bearing in my AC fan was absolutely toast.

I installed a new OEM fan and ALL the vibes completely disappeared.

Was very bizarre, but since you mention it goes away when ya shut the ac off, might be worth looking into

Thanks for the reply. It only goes away when I turn the A/c off at slow roll. Not when I am travelling faster.

 

[bundynice]

Thanks for everyones replies, much appreciated.

So the vibrations are now getting worse (approx 600kms after engine works completed) and are present in all gears / speeds when at 1,500 - 1,700rpm. It's is now becoming undrivable.

So I have started the process of getting 3rd and 4th opinions. Booked in to Fulcrum suspension (where I bought the diff drop kit from) tomorrow to get a full geometry check in the driveline, and see if it is a diff drop / tailshaft issue.

If that doesn't find anything, I will go to an auto trans place to have the toque convertor and trans looked at.

The search continues.

 

[TheComedian]

Interesting video. But if the vibration is in the driveline, why does it stop from turning off the air conditioner or from downshifting 5 -> 4, both of which change engine rpm without changing vehicle speed or driveline load. Maybe some normal engine resonance at certain rpms trigger an abnormal vibration in the driveline made possible by the diff drop? Then even a slight rpm change would stop the resonance?

Well the ac also rises the rpm on the diesel from ~550-580 without load to ~800-850rpm thats why I still bet a bit on rpm x angle error.

@op I can’t await what they (hopefully, crossing fingers!) will find.

Oh another thing came to my mind since a friend had this with his Hilux. It also ince started to vibrate and even stutter in the middle of winter and after long search we found that the fuel filter was partial clogged and frozen (wich I guess isn’t a thing in Aus hehe). But I guess with the whole engine replacement they pretty sure changed the filter as well?

 

[xplr]

@bundynice I am having similar issues with a 2010, 240,000km, I get similar judder / shudder only in reverse and 1st gear under 10km/h. Had auto transmission serviced last month but no change. Was advised this may be front or rear drive shaft and or bad uni joint.

 

[bundynice]

Hi all,

After months of hunting, happy to report the issue has finally been resolved.

Recap
- Engine was dusted at 250,000km
- Engine removed by my mechanic, rebuilt by 3rd party and re-installed by my mechanic
At the same time as the engine install, new turbos, an intercooler, injectors, hoses, belts, batteries, a radiator, catalytic convertors, engine mounts, trans mounts, and a diff drop were also installed —pretty much everything I could think of as a potential future driveline issue.
- When the car was delivered from the mechanic, there was a shudder at 100km/hr. At first, it was intermittent, but it got worse as time went on. It felt like it was coming from under the seat, not in the steering wheel, so lead me down the driveline path.
- Driveline (i.e. tailshafts, joints, etc) was fully inspected by independent 3rd party - no issues
- Inspection of all recently installed, and other components not replaced (I.e wheel bearings, cvs, shafts etc), by a 3rd party - no issues
- Suspension inspected by 3rd party - rear shocks worn out, so replaced - didn't fix anything
- Tires rotated, balanced, then replaced - didn't fix anything
- Transmission and torque converter inspected - no issues (but added anti shudder solution to trans) - didn't fix anything
- That lead my back to the engine. Inspection of the a/c and alternator showed both bearings were starting to seize up - so replaced both - didn't fix anything
- So with no solution identified, knowing that driving the car with a shudder was better now whilst under warranty, I put some miles on it. After a few weeks and about 1,400km, I was able to narrow down the shudder though. Turns out it wasnt a speed issue, it was an rpm issue. I learnt after a while that no matter what the speed i could get it to happen right on 1,500rpm. I also figures out that when the shudder started, if I fluctuated the accelerator pedal, the engine would make an injector rattling noise.
- Went back to the workshop - 9th time back - and injectors (which were new) were removed and sent for testing, and that turned up nothing.
- HOWEVER, when they were putting the injectors and seals back in they did a camera inspection of each hole and found that there was a seal still in one of the injector slots, at the back of the engine on the rear passenger side hole.

Turns out it was one injector seal, which wasn't removed from the block at rebuild, so when the motor was being reassembled and new injector seals were installed, it created a double spacing on one injector, causing it to malfunction, and only at a specific rpm, without throwing an error code. And since it was in the back corner of the engine the slot couldn't be seen with the naked eye, only by telescope camera.

Who would of thought, that such a simple part would result in the such a malfunction, and months of searching, testing and head scratching. Was truly like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

Thanks for all your input; it is much appreciated.