200 series camper suggestions?

[Romer]

It fit well in this garage, but then I got a BMW Z4 so had to build it a new home

And to finish my Retirement Toy set I got an Alu-Cab for the trail runs the Karvan isn't practical due to the terrain, rough shelf roads you dont want to pull a trailer up. They make a good set

 

[tincan45]

View attachment 2614586

It fit well in this garage, but then I got a BMW Z4 so had to build it a new home

Now you are just showing off!

 

[catastrofe]

If I remember right Oliver's are priced around 50k to 60k a little less than but closer to Airstream pricing.

I thought the Kimberly Kruisers run a whole different price range from $85k base to 180k+ for the "T" series, isn't that correct?

They are nice but can get into 6 figures.

A well optioned Oliver Legacy Elite II is around $85K. Kimberleys (Kruiser models) are definitely more expensive, but they provide many features you just can't get on an Oliver (or any other US made trailer).

 

[Artie]

(or any other US made trailer).

This is the unfortunate truth with the adventure/overland campers. The Australian and South Africa manufacturers offer the quality and features that set the bar pretty high. With the overland craze hitting the states like it is there will either be some US manufacturers that step up or the makes like Kimberly and Conqueror will move from importing here to building here to cut the purchase costs of their models in the states.

 

[stolikat]

This is the unfortunate truth with the adventure/overland campers. The Australian and South Africa manufacturers offer the quality and features that set the bar pretty high. With the overland craze hitting the states like it is there will either be some US manufacturers that step up or the makes like Kimberly and Conqueror will move from importing here to building here to cut the purchase costs of their models in the states.

That is going to take some time. The Aussies are years and years ahead of the game.

 

[Bomar]

Sad part I don’t think Americans are willing to pay the price. You get what you pay for

I can tell you it is super easy to tow the Karavan with any of my trucks.

I probably have towed it 10k miles in less than a year.

 

[highfructose]

Sad part I don’t think Americans are willing to pay the price. You get what you pay for

I can tell you it is super easy to tow the Karavan with any of my trucks.

I probably have towed it 10k miles in less than a year.

We don’t have an outback in the states.

realistically we don’t NEED the high quality gear that they have. What we will likely get, for the most part, is lower quality items that look the part.

think max trax vs xbull. Telluride vs land cruiser.

 

[linuxgod]

Some good ideas for the water line issue. It’s not an all the time thing to camp that cold. Just have had a few trips where it got in the 20’s and though the tank doesn’t freeze, the lines freeze quite quick. At that point I could then have a full water tank, but not have a way to get the water out til it warms up and the lines thaw. I know a guy local here that’s fried 2 water pumps on my same model trailer because he didn’t drain the lines overnight then turned the pump on in the morning. I have my workarounds if I am knowing it’s gonna be a cold trip, just would be nice not to have to worry about this.
On both the patriot and Turtleback Facebook groups I browse on I must have seen 20+ people with the same complaint or question about winter camping

I assume the parts of the water line that freeze are under the trailer and not inside?

My Lance is 4 season. I've only camped down in the mid 20s (overnight) but there are some other guys on the forum who have definitely been down into single digits, possibly less. With a little creativity you could likely modify your trailer to handle temps in the 20s without issue. Lance doesn't use unobtanium to insulate underneath, it's just styrofoam, thin plywood, and that black waterproof mesh. The only other thing they do is to route one of the heat ducts under the floor so that it provides some radiant heat into the insulated area where the tanks are.

In your case if the tanks aren't freezing, you may be able to get away with just insulating the water lines that are exposed. Failing that you can get electric heat tape which you can turn on, though you'll probably need 120V for that. (I used to have some wrapped on a cold water pipe in our old house which was along an exterior wall... not ideal for Chicago winters).

 

[DPA200]

I assume the parts of the water line that freeze are under the trailer and not inside?

My Lance is 4 season. I've only camped down in the mid 20s (overnight) but there are some other guys on the forum who have definitely been down into single digits, possibly less. With a little creativity you could likely modify your trailer to handle temps in the 20s without issue. Lance doesn't use unobtanium to insulate underneath, it's just styrofoam, thin plywood, and that black waterproof mesh. The only other thing they do is to route one of the heat ducts under the floor so that it provides some radiant heat into the insulated area where the tanks are.

In your case if the tanks aren't freezing, you may be able to get away with just insulating the water lines that are exposed. Failing that you can get electric heat tape which you can turn on, though you'll probably need 120V for that. (I used to have some wrapped on a cold water pipe in our old house which was along an exterior wall... not ideal for Chicago winters).

Thanks for the tips. Yeah on mine the water lines are inside the trailer, but the trailer itself is essentially just a big non insulated cargo box. Basically same configuration as a Turtleback, a box with a slide out kitchen in back, RTT on top. So it’s not like a teardrop that has an insulated cabin. I cant really visualize any way to insulate the whole cargo area. Adding a heater or that heat tape could possibly work. We’ve had this trailer for about 4 years and are nearing outgrowing it anyways. So 4 years in I’ve mostly just accepted the cold/water issue as a downside of any of these style of trailers. They are all just a cargo box with a tent on top, Turtleback, Patriot, Bivouc ect all have this same issue. At this point mainly just exploring something that’d fit out family as the kids keep growing. Ideally would’ve that Bruuder EXP4 as it’s so small on its own, but can have the 2 older kids in a hard shell tent on top and parents with our younger kid and dog inside below. Virtually zero setup with that route also

 

[linuxgod]

Thanks for the tips. Yeah on mine the water lines are inside the trailer, but the trailer itself is essentially just a big non insulated cargo box. Basically same configuration as a Turtleback, a box with a slide out kitchen in back, RTT on top. So it’s not like a teardrop that has an insulated cabin. I cant really visualize any way to insulate the whole cargo area. Adding a heater or that heat tape could possibly work. We’ve had this trailer for about 4 years and are nearing outgrowing it anyways. So 4 years in I’ve mostly just accepted the cold/water issue as a downside of any of these style of trailers. They are all just a cargo box with a tent on top, Turtleback, Patriot, Bivouc ect all have this same issue. At this point mainly just exploring something that’d fit out family as the kids keep growing. Ideally would’ve that Bruuder EXP4 as it’s so small on its own, but can have the 2 older kids in a hard shell tent on top and parents with our younger kid and dog inside below. Virtually zero setup with that route also

If it doesn't have a propane heater then yeah, you'd need to add one. Even with the 4 season Lance I have, it's only 4 seasons when you run the heat. They even tell you to open the cabinets when the temp drops to ensure some warm air is circulating around the water lines inside the cabin. 2" of styrofoam only does so much.

Heat tape would keep the lines from freezing but you'd probably drain a battery too quickly. At 5-6W/ft it takes quite a while to thaw a line.

I suppose if you felt creative you could hook a hose up to the tap and run it back into your fresh water fill, then let the faucet drip. The water pump should run occasionally and help move water through the lines. Moving water shouldn't freeze in the 20s, though again you'll be running the water pump pretty regularly so between the battery use and the pump noise you might not want to do this.

Maybe do what mountain climbers do and sleep with water bottles under your airpits?

 

[Artie]

On the Conqueror the only line exposed outside is a fill/drain line with a spigot that runs out the front and two tanks. The shower is external but I remove the shower part and toss a few hand warmers in that compartment and it’s kept it warm enough. For the tanks I can place the small little buddy propane heater and it’s been all I’ve needed but I wouldn’t go below the 20°’s with that. I’m building a skirt as we speak to address the underneath tank and fill line, all I need is some type of heat source to throw under there and that should keep me sleeping through the night with out the fear of freezing. I have a few remote temp sensors from Kestrel I can monitor and set alerts for my phone to let me know if it’s time to panic or not.

 

[1world1love]

We don’t have an outback in the states.

We don't have what we would call the outback, but there are plenty of remote places that call for extraordinarily robust gear. We have more paved/improved roads crossing our "outback" which makes it seem less remote but there are plenty of places where you can go 100 miles or more, on-road, or off-road, without seeing a house or services. And that is not including Alaska.

Consider that in the United States, most of our deserts are high elevation and in addition to seeing >100f temps, they also receive the bulk of their limited precipitation in the form of snow, which is a problem that Australians don't have to think about.

Saline Valley Road is 70 miles and it's lowest point is 1000 ft and can be well over 100 degrees in the summer. Its highest point is 7,500 ft and can see snow at anytime of the year. Same with Big Pine in Death Valley. If you break down in one of those places and don't have appropriate coms, you are going to be in trouble.

I'm not going to argue that anything in the US is comparable to the Australian bush, but there are unique challenges that exist here and there is a market for higher quality options. I do think that the price of that quality is a tough sale here in the US. Things will get better if companies like Kimberly gain a real foothold. We need more innovation in the US and if companies see Kimberly doing well selling 115k off-load trailers, there will be more incentive.

 

[Fisher23]

When I look at the Karavan I do not see an A/C unit.

Does it come with A/C options, I do not see it on the option list.

Even on the $115,950 one I do not see A/C, did I miss it?

I think it would be odd in the smoking hot outback without a/c.

Link on prices

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/7423790/PRICE%20BOOKS/Karavan%202020%20Detail%20Price%20Book.pdf

 

[Bomar]

Eco Suite has AC.

I have AC in my Karavan and have camped in 100 plus weather and below freezing I have been extremely comfortable in both.

I optioned for extra diesel heater because I loved it in my kamper

It is you choose the options you want and credit for those you don’t.

 

[Fisher23]

Thanks .. I see it now on the brochure, I just didn't see it listed as and option or inclusion,

 

[TeCKis300]

A close buddy that I camp with a lot just pulled the trigger on a Vorsheer XOC. He's been back and forth on Turtle, OPUS, Partiot, etc. I don't know too much about this one other than while still pretty darn expensive (low-mid $40k), but not exotic priced, seems to hit most of the marks for what he needs. He was focused on a high end off-road trailer, but couldn't get himself to pay the bucks for what amounts to a glorified tent on wheels. Hence the compromise for a compact off-road camper which may be less nimble for goat trails, but with 35s and pretty huge clearance, should still get through anything his Raptor will get through. I'll be avidly following his experience to see how such a setup plays out in use.

As another example of this being a very personal choice and perhaps an expensive lesson - he's trading in his '27 Lance 2285 for this as he realized a full size travel trailer didn't suit the trips he really wanted to do and didn't get enough use to justify storage costs, maintenance, logistics of getting it from storage and ready for trips. He can store this in his home and always ready to go for even a short weekend jaunt.

 

[Fisher23]

Those are nice, one of the guys I wheel with has one. His wife's complaint is you can't stand up in it.

I know he's running 35's on his and his newer style FJ.

 

[rscoleman]

Cool thread, we have been looking at trailer with 2 purposes in mind. First would be to pad park it along gulf coast so I have place to go to for weekend fishing trips from Austin. I would leave it on pad unless hurricane or road trip. I have found year round pad (water, sewer, electric, internet) for about 5000 for year. The Second use of course is road trip option to visit national parks etc... It is just me, wife, and dog. I did not see anyone list this particular manufacture or maybe I missed it. 2021 Transcend XPLOR 240ML - https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2021/travel-trailer/transcend-xplor/floorplans/240ml I like this model best it would be at limit of what I would want to pull with LC but I sure LC can handle it no issues.

 

[linuxgod]

Cool thread, we have been looking at trailer with 2 purposes in mind. First would be to pad park it along gulf coast so I have place to go to for weekend fishing trips from Austin. I would leave it on pad unless hurricane or road trip. I have found year round pad (water, sewer, electric, internet) for about 5000 for year. The Second use of course is road trip option to visit national parks etc... It is just me, wife, and dog. I did not see anyone list this particular manufacture or maybe I missed it. 2021 Transcend XPLOR 240ML - https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2021/travel-trailer/transcend-xplor/floorplans/240ml I like this model best it would be at limit of what I would want to pull with LC but I sure LC can handle it no issues.

Assuming you are set up stock, it's definitely at the upper limits but given the relatively low tongue weight (even though it'll be higher once you add propane, battery, gear, etc) you should be within the Toyota specs. 30' is a bit long but with the right hitch setup you should be OK. Hard to tell real TW until you put it on a scale though as in my experience all the manufacturers lie on this stat (my Surveyor was listed at 385 but was over 500 without any gear and my Lance was listed at ~540 IIRC but empty it was actually 770#). I've personally seen TW end up 1.5-2x what it's stated at once loaded down if you're not careful. Your actual trailer weight will easily exceed 7000# under normal use, which is a lot of weight though the LC will handle it

I saw a Grand Design a few years back at an RV show, before they were acquired by Winnebago. The guys who started GD had worked for Keystone, which was acquired by Thor, and they left because they wanted to create higher quality trailers. I might have considered one but at the time they didn't have anything that met my specific needs.

If you like GD, you might also look at Lance. Similarly to GD the materials are higher quality than the Thor-branded campers. Also similar to GD they are pricier than Forest River/Grey Wolf/Cherokee/Keystone/etc, but not as much as Airstream or the really high end campers. I've had a few small issues with my Lance but overall it's been way more robust and less maintenance than the Forest River I had previously.

 

[TeCKis300]

Cool thread, we have been looking at trailer with 2 purposes in mind. First would be to pad park it along gulf coast so I have place to go to for weekend fishing trips from Austin. I would leave it on pad unless hurricane or road trip. I have found year round pad (water, sewer, electric, internet) for about 5000 for year. The Second use of course is road trip option to visit national parks etc... It is just me, wife, and dog. I did not see anyone list this particular manufacture or maybe I missed it. 2021 Transcend XPLOR 240ML - https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2021/travel-trailer/transcend-xplor/floorplans/240ml I like this model best it would be at limit of what I would want to pull with LC but I sure LC can handle it no issues.

My first reaction checking out that model trailer is that it's big. Very big.

Couple thoughts:
1) If your intent is to visit national parks, the size may work against you. From available site reservations that can accommodate that length and just general maneuverability as many national park destinations here on the west at least, were developed before monstrous RVs and travel trailers became the norm. Fortunately the 200-series makes for a super maneuverable tow vehicle to compensate somewhat. It is balance of wishing for 3 less feet en-route, and wishing for 3 more feet when camped.
2) That is on the upper end of what the 200-series can handle. It's more than just weights. Sorry to get technical here but large and long trailers have significant yaw momentum. Add to that the long slab sides that can really catch cross winds, then inline winds as a trailer begins to yaw, and it may create risker situations to sway and loss of control. With a relatively shorter wheelbase vehicle that is our 200-series.

TL;DR - Just saying you might want to really consider the size aspect of this trailer. It's doable but may want to add mitigations such as a higher end PPP (pivot point projection; eg Propride) type hitch. That in itself adds overall length and weight.