200.00 sliders

[Land Speeder]

Yeah Me and Eric (land speeder) made them for under $200. I am sure Eric will chime in here but i would glad to answer any questions. I am maybe you could convince us to make some more.

Good to see you posting Heckler!

Track down and PM Land Speeder on Mud. He typically can be found on the MS/Cotton Land Cruiser club section.

I just checked out his sliders he made for his 80 at Tellico (you saw them too Slick621 when they were trying to start that fire!).

He has a '91 so the cats are different than newer models, but it's quality work at a reasonable cost.

Of course, he has lots of sweat equity in the solution but it beats $200+ shipping from the West coast...

I doubt he's headed for the business of slider fab, but he can certainly give feedback and input as his design is slick, cost effective and functional, FWIW.

Here's the skinny...
After way too many cold ones sitting around the camp fire at the first annual Southern Cruiser Crawl, Mark and I (Heckler) decided to build our own sliders after seeing a fellow crusier-heads sliders from MS (Brian S. - FJ60Guy). Brian did a great job on his.
"It can be done" was said oh about 15 times.
Only 2 weeks later we were pricing steel and gathering everything we needed. Ironically enough we did not "need" much. You see we were both in agreance on one thing: Welded to the frame and no brackets.
We spent exactly $107 in raw material each and then about $100 cumulative in tools from harbor freight and Lowes to get it done. Mark has the welder and I have the circular saw using metal blades and finding all kinds of angles with it.
It took us 3 weekends to complete. I bet we could knock a set out in 2 days painted now that we know how to do it. I'm not interested however and Mark probably isn't either.
By the way... this was my first welding EVER, so if you are somewhat inclined then it can be easy.
IT WAS WORTH THE TIME IF YOU ARE ALWAYS BROKE LIKE ME

Don't have close-up pics yet but here are both of us using them 2 weekends ago at Tellico for the MLK run... I'm the two-tone 80 and Mark is the dark green...
http://www.auburn.edu/~hannans/MLKrun.htm

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Guy in my club won a set of the Trail Gear sliders off Pirate. He already had sliders on his mini, so he got the 67" ones for an Xtracab and is planning on using them on his 80.

Still not sure I want to be supporting Trail Gear over Marlin tho.

 

[sleeoffroad]

DejaVu

Pop quiz, which one costs more to make, given the same quality. Keep in mind, one had to bolt on and actually fit existing holes on the vehicle when you ship it to a customer.

For 4LLC, the first one can be had from www.marlincrawler.com

 

[firetruck41]

Apparently 80 series sliders are a higher quality than any made for a 4 runner - at least in some minds.

Yeah, unless you consider a couple generic sized, partially built, bare steel tubes that require you to cut your vehicles pinch welds, and weld to your frame, as equal to the quality of the hanna, slee, etc. bolt on sliders.

 

[acolella]

Contact Stubbs welding and see if their willing to make some for 80s?

http://www.stubbswelding.com/rocksliders.htm

If you contact stubbs make sure you ask for CAT protection. They currently do not but I asked them to yesterday regaring my request. The only thing is you will need to finsih them yourself; if its powder coating your looking for, it will bring you inline with new sliders from Hanna and Slee, not worth it then.

 

[nickw]

JUst the steel for propper sliders will cost more than 200 bucks. I wouldn't be buying $200 sliders unless they are a used set being given away for that price.
My .02

Sam

$200 for steel!! Thats WAY to much.
You are letting them STEAL money from your pocket.


2x3" is about $1.20 Canadian per foot
1.5" tubing is about $0.75 per foot.


These prices were acouple of weeks ago.
You guys have to go wholesale.
They come in 20ft lengths.
I put my steel orders in with the Blacksmith shop I used to work at.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Yeah, unless you consider a couple generic sized, partially built, bare steel tubes that require you to cut your vehicles pinch welds, and weld to your frame, as equal to the quality of the hanna, slee, etc. bolt on sliders.

Humm... lets see Slee 4 Runner Sliders cost $565, and Slee 80 series are $795 or $835 depending on year. Damn, those 6 u-bolts must cost $45 a piece, or are the 4 runners not built to the high standard of quality the 80's are?

Or maybe it cost $2,000 for the fixtures for both and that has to be spread over ten 80 series sliders vs. the fifty for the 4 runner? Let's see, 2,000 divided by ten is 200. 2,000 divided by fifty is 40. Humm.. which is a bigger number 200 or 40? Which part do I have to price higher to make the same return on investment? Maybe the cruiser is a more dificult design and the fixtures cost $3,000 to develop - for the math impared, that'd mean you'd have to add $300 to the cost of the ten 80 series sliders.

There are perfectly good reasons for 80 series sliders to be more expensive. They are higher quality than anything made for any other make or model vehicle isn't one of them.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Humm... lets see Slee 4 Runner Sliders cost $565, and Slee 80 series are $795 or $835 depending on year. Damn, those 6 u-bolts must cost $45 a piece, or are the 4 runners not built to the high standard of quality the 80's are?

Ok, lets see, 4Runner sliders 2x3 -1/8" wall , 80 slider 2x4 - 3/16" wall material. 4Runner slider 3 legs exactly the same, and same position on each side. Once setup to cut all legs. Same gusset and mouting plate on each side. Legs welded 90 degrees to slider. So easier to fab and allignment not so critical. Legs made from square tubing.

80 Slider, 3 different kinds of legs. Legs formed from plate cut on hi-def plasma cutter and then bent into U channel. 3 different patterns, not counting the complicated under cat bracket. Gussets added to inside of U for additional strength.

Aligment critical to bolt up. So we actually back bend the slider by 3/4" when we fabricate so that they end up perfectly straight when done. If you don't you end up with banana shape sliders once the outer tube is welded on. If that happens none of the bolt holes line up.

80 Slider bigger, so blasting and powdercoating more.

Then there is the 6 u-bolts. Custom bent. 10x7/16 washers, 10 lock washers, 10 nuts. 4X 8mm flange bolts, lock washers, washers and thick washers (to prevent them from caving into the slots).

Then we get to Heath's economy of scale. 80 sliders outsell 4runner sliders 10:1. Then you get into cost to have them on the shelf, time for stock to sit on the shelf, time that your money is tied up in inventory etc etc.

Yes, to bad we are criminals and make a profit.

By the same argument, we should put the 80 2.5" ome suspension up, because 60 owners must be desensitized by paying almost double for leaf spring suspensions. Those 60 owners will be buying 80's soon, so they should be used to paying $1400 for a 2" suspension.

 

[firetruck41]

There are perfectly good reasons for 80 series sliders to be more expensive. They are higher quality than anything made for any other make or model vehicle isn't one of them.

Yup, never made the argument that they are higher quality than anything made for any vehicle, I would have to be able to look at millions of sliders/vehicles to make that ridiculous statement.

 

[2badfjs]

gotta chime in here....
christo, i'm with ya on this..

80 sliders are 70" long
i can only buy 20' lengths of steel stock,or 10' foot lengths
your not getting two side rails out of a 10' chunk,so you have to buy a 20' stick
20'x2"x4"x11gauge will run you about $90. give or take..
so out of the 20' stick or 240", your going to cut two 70" rails.
now you have 100" of steel left to work your outriggers with, and thats prolly not even one piece,cause i know your not haulin home a 20' stick of steel unless you have a trailer.
so say you had the steel co. cut your 20' stick in half(which they will)
now you have two 50" pieces of 2x4 that you prolly arent gonna make outriggers with.
so now you also need cannel steel (which christo/slee uses) or 2x3 rectangle stock.(my choice)
you can prolly get away with a 10' stick of that for outriggers so figure $40. for that.
you now need plate steel. what size? slee sliders have two sizes from what i can tell.
so you gotta figure the steel yard minimum is 10' lengths on two sizes..hmmmm another $50. in plate.
now lets talk u-bolts....
6 u-bolts that i used to use on my sliders that i had a spring shop custom bend for me, ran right around $56. suspension grade u-bolts with nuts and washers
material cost:
90.
+40.
+50.
+56.
=236. please correct me if i'm wrong i cant add

then if you have them powdercoated $150. at least

$236.
+$150.
=$386.00

or if you just paint them figure $20. for paint

then figure prolly anywhere from 10-15 man hours to build...

i could go on but i hope you see my point
80 series sliders are NOT a easy build...
and that prolly why i've decided NOT to build these.

these just dont seem fun or profitable for me to build.

jim

 

[Land Speeder]

i can only buy 20' lengths of steel stock,or 10' foot lengths

I (we) purchased by the foot... very cheap... maybe we're just lucky (did I mention they cut the lentghs we needed). But I ran into places like you speak of.

80 series sliders are NOT a easy build...
and that prolly why i've decided NOT to build these.

these just dont seem fun or profitable for me to build.

I agree! even though we just were very methodical it took 3 solid weekends and some evenings. About 5 days per set. Our cats were on different sides so that sucked.

If I had more money than time, I'd buy from Christo, but I have all kinds of free time and not enough padding in my wallet, so I chose to be imaginative and my sliders now mean something that I can be completely proud of everytime someone ask me who I got my sliders from. (and trust me, I have been asked that alot).
I also built my sliders because I have a 91, and every vendor had the same answer for the last 2 years.... "They're coming in a few months..." That answer gets old but I am well aware that I am a small breed in the 91-92 market.

My only rambling point... if you want them excellent and can't fab worth a crap, then buy them. If you have free time and like to try new things, then build them, you can't go wrong either way.

 

[Tools R Us]

$200 for steel!! Thats WAY to much.
You are letting them STEAL money from you pocket.


2x3" tubing is about $1.20 Canadian per foot
1.5" tubing is about $0.75 per foot.


These prices were acouple of weeks ago.
You guys have to go wholesale.
They come in 20ft lengths.
I put my steel orders in with the Blacksmith shop I used to work at.

Wow, I need some of that cheap steel shipped down here! I was quoted $9.38 list a foot, $6 my cost for 2"x3"x.25" tube cut to size.

I am making my own because I want them to my design and have the tools. I may save some money, but that's not the point.

The bolt on ones available are very nice and it would require a bunch of work to replicate them. Buying a "kit" set and fabbing mounts, weld or bolt on is an option for those with the skill, time and tools.

 

[nickw]

Wow, I need some of that cheap steel shipped down here! I was quoted $9.38 list a foot, $6 my cost for 2"x3"x.25" tube cut to size.

I am making my own because I want them to my design and have the tools. I may save some money, but that's not the point.

The bolt on ones available are very nice and it would require a bunch of work to replicate them. Buying a "kit" set and fabbing mounts, weld or bolt on is an option for those with the skill, time and tools.

That is expensive. I should also note that those prices were for 1/8" (.125) inch wall steel. I would go a little heavier (3/16th channel), which would take the price up. 1/8 tubing is strong enough. My room mates have a bender with a die I can use. So there is no kinks, keeping it nice and strong.

I am not sure why it's cheaper here.
That is for 'regular' mild steel. Not high carbon or anything.
Maybe they are shipping the steel further to you, which would drive the cost up?
These prices are also from a steel wholesaler. I think the minimum order is $2000, so you can't just walk in off the street to buy a few hundred bucks worth.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Mr.Bryan]

gotta chime in here....
christo, i'm with ya on this..

80 sliders are 70" long
i can only buy 20' lengths of steel stock,or 10' foot lengths
your not getting two side rails out of a 10' chunk,so you have to buy a 20' stick
20'x2"x4"x11gauge will run you about $90. give or take..
so out of the 20' stick or 240", your going to cut two 70" rails.
now you have 100" of steel left to work your outriggers with, and thats prolly not even one piece,cause i know your not haulin home a 20' stick of steel unless you have a trailer.
so say you had the steel co. cut your 20' stick in half(which they will)
now you have two 50" pieces of 2x4 that you prolly arent gonna make outriggers with.
so now you also need cannel steel (which christo/slee uses) or 2x3 rectangle stock.(my choice)
you can prolly get away with a 10' stick of that for outriggers so figure $40. for that.
you now need plate steel. what size? slee sliders have two sizes from what i can tell.
so you gotta figure the steel yard minimum is 10' lengths on two sizes..hmmmm another $50. in plate.
now lets talk u-bolts....
6 u-bolts that i used to use on my sliders that i had a spring shop custom bend for me, ran right around $56. suspension grade u-bolts with nuts and washers
material cost:
90.
+40.
+50.
+56.
=236. please correct me if i'm wrong i cant add

then if you have them powdercoated $150. at least

$236.
+$150.
=$386.00

or if you just paint them figure $20. for paint

then figure prolly anywhere from 10-15 man hours to build...

i could go on but i hope you see my point
80 series sliders are NOT a easy build...
and that prolly why i've decided NOT to build these.

these just dont seem fun or profitable for me to build.

jim

I paid 230somthing for my steel when I made mine. 12' of 2x4x1/8 , a 20' section of 1.5"x 1/8 dom, and 10' of 6" x 1/8 plate. Given I had some left over at the end, but not much. And they turned out good. You're going to pay over 200 for steel ifyou do it yourself. unless you're buying s***ty steel....

 

[chip7238]

Well, this thread has taken a turn from sourcing weld on sliders, to steel pricing, etc. Lots of good info here, though.

Although I don't currently have any sliders, I will before the end of the year. For a BRIEF moment, I thought of making my own, however, Slee's look like the way to go. I'll just have to save my pennies a little longer.

I will say that I agree in the unfair comparison between 4runner and LC sliders - just look at the pic that Christo posted. WAY more complicated for the LC labor-wise. Not even accounting for thicker steel, I still don't think that price is out of line. I'm no expert, but I know good work when I see it. For a DIY job, that type of fab would take alot of time and experimentation (not to mention experience). For those with the ability/experience, sliders are a great project, but for me I think I'll just wait until I've got the funds saved up.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Yup, never made the argument that they are higher quality than anything made for any vehicle, I would have to be able to look at millions of sliders/vehicles to make that ridiculous statement.

Like I said in my first post on this thread - it's been discussed before - and that ridiculous statement - that 80 series sliders were more expensive than other vehicle sliders because they were higher quality was made multiple times.

Slee added a few other good reasons why they're more. I was refering to another thread, where "quality" was given as the reason they are more than 4 runners or whatever other model, and it was a bull**** statement there, and I expected it to get repeated here.

 

[Land Speeder]

You're going to pay over 200 for steel ifyou do it yourself. unless you're buying s***ty steel....

I heart s***ty steel

 

[2badfjs]

Well, this thread has taken a turn from sourcing weld on sliders, to steel pricing, etc. Lots of good info here, though.

Although I don't currently have any sliders, I will before the end of the year. For a BRIEF moment, I thought of making my own, however, Slee's look like the way to go. I'll just have to save my pennies a little longer.

I will say that I agree in the unfair comparison between 4runner and LC sliders - just look at the pic that Christo posted. WAY more complicated for the LC labor-wise. Not even accounting for thicker steel, I still don't think that price is out of line. I'm no expert, but I know good work when I see it. For a DIY job, that type of fab would take alot of time and experimentation (not to mention experience). For those with the ability/experience, sliders are a great project, but for me I think I'll just wait until I've got the funds saved up.

if you welding them to the frame, your steel cost would come down cause you eliminate all the u-bolts and use less plate..

sorry to take a left turn on the thread
i really dont think you can build or buy for $200.

 

[Land Speeder]

i really dont think you can build or buy for $200.

2 of us that posted on this thread really did... as we've already stated.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Right here.

http://www.marlincrawler.com/htm/armor.htm