Just saw this post. So tell me. How much hp and torque is made by dropping intake temps say 50'c alone with no increase of fuel?
1HD-T Intake Manifold Modifications (1 Viewer)
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Just saw this post. So tell me. How much hp and torque is made by dropping intake temps say 50'c alone with no increase of fuel?
Well this tread has made for some interesting reading.
It seems Bigboys idea has been tried before, By Ford.
The best ford good get this system to actulaly help cool the intake charge for, Was for 45 sec.
More reading here.
http://www.fordforums.com/f349/fords-supercooler-uses-cold-air-heat-up-engine-performance-33177/
This is old school now & Ford couldnt get it to work for prolonged periods.
It might be good if your into drag racing.
But useless for a 4wd.
Hamo
It seems Bigboys idea has been tried before, By Ford.
The best ford good get this system to actulaly help cool the intake charge for, Was for 45 sec.
More reading here.
http://www.fordforums.com/f349/fords-supercooler-uses-cold-air-heat-up-engine-performance-33177/
This is old school now & Ford couldnt get it to work for prolonged periods.
It might be good if your into drag racing.
But useless for a 4wd.
Hamo
More reading from Ford
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=14096
"Ford’s patented SuperCooler technology"
“The SuperCooler provides the edge for the driver, and it is done simply by taking advantage of the hardware that already exists in the vehicle.”As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions."
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=14096
"Ford’s patented SuperCooler technology"
“The SuperCooler provides the edge for the driver, and it is done simply by taking advantage of the hardware that already exists in the vehicle.”As a result of this cool technology, the SVT Lighting concept can give its driver as much as 50 transient horsepower for short bursts of 30-45 seconds and regenerate within 2 minutes under normal driving conditions."
Spot on. And highway with the new turbo is 7psi at 100. The large plenum has also dropped egt temps by increasing my afr's. I've worked all my design around 150'.
might want to adjust your valves and put in a new valve cover gasket before you cover it all up .
Heads just been rebuilt, valves are reseated and clearances done, injectors, glow plugs, gaskets, everything. But I definitely understand what you are saying, and never new injector lines needed to be cracked. I will be pulling it off tomorrow. And making a flange so the intercooler bolts to the plenum (like stock). Then a few simple bolts and I can get to everything/remove cover etc. I actually did think of it before I did it. But now see its a must.
Those killerchiller videos are sort of lame arent they? I mean its neat to see intake temps below ambient, we all get that. Id like to see the temps a tad longer than the 2 seconds of boost they show in the videos. Lets see your temps after 10 minutes of hard boost.
How do you think I came up with numbers without gauges? I'm not inclined to just recite numbers I haven't tested myself, any more than you are. You did read my whole post, not just the first paragraph, right?
I'm using K-type thermocouples from Omega.ca and a dual input handheld unit. For water temp I'm just using your average Autometer water temp sensors. I've monitored pre and post air and water temperatures at ambient temperatures ranging from 0C to ~35C for over a year now. I only bother doing that on long highway trips with big hills and a fairly full truck when I can really load up the system and heat soak it all to hell. The system stabilizes fairly quickly and after that the water and air temps don't change until the top of the hill.
I don't even bother plugging in the handheld in the city. Some time I'll try it in the city when it's thoroughly rested and the water is close to ambient temp and I'll see how close to ambient my cooler will get the air. My guess is 75% (although I already know this is the case because I've been monitoring every part of the system.)
I do understand that you're just talking about the cooler since there's no way the total system is going to come in at 90%! I can't argue with the other guy's gauge photos but I've never heard anyone claim 90+% effectiveness before.
I guess I need some Dynamat.
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Indeed I was getting 90%. But that dynamat is more for when's it's below ambient to stop engine heat soak affecting temps. I'm chucking a wrx scoop on it to help also. There is alot of things though that differentiate our cooler systems. What size reserve water tank are you using?
Edit. Basically all I was talking about is water ever the water temp is. The air intake temp post cooler won't be far from it. The system is what I'm working on. So I don't have a final result or % so far.
Edit. Basically all I was talking about is water ever the water temp is. The air intake temp post cooler won't be far from it. The system is what I'm working on. So I don't have a final result or % so far.
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Your clearly still not getting it.
Sorry, I've been editing that last post while you were reading it...
At present I don't have a reservoir in the system so my overall capacity is less than 4L. In short runs the reservoir would be very beneficial but I'm fairly sure that on extended highway hills with very short breaks in between it wouldn't change much for me. But we're still only talking about the cooler, so it's effectiveness is still only measured relative to the incoming water temperature.
I'm also contemplating a hood scoop for the sake of shedding some additional heat. I'm certain that's a low pressure area so I expect the heat to exit the scoop. The WRX one might be good because it's tall and might actually direct air in at moderate speeds. I guess it doesn't really matter which way the air moves, as long as it does indeed move.
Totally understand.
I'm wondering if your pump is "helping" your cooler more than mine. Off the top of my head I think a higher flow rate will be good for the cooler (get the hot water out fast and replace it with colder) but it might work the opposite way for the radiator (moving too quickly to allow it to shed heat).
Another thought is an air bubble...although I went through many, many rounds of bleeding the system (that design makes it hard). I might tap a threaded hole to put a bleeder on top of the cooler.
Yep, my scoop it perfectly over and larger than the cooler. This with strip any engine heat away from the cooler. Definitely help. Now your cooler will hold 1 litre, if you increased the size of your heat exchanger to hold 2-3 litres and largest surface area you can- and added a 10 litre reservoir (plus your cooler, exchange and water line volume). You will be shocked at how long it will withstand heat soak. If you did something like a killer chiller (current system) and very efficient heat exchanger (ac to water) that increases with rpm. That will also help. If you ran a new larger ac system with the correct amount of refridgerant. It will be much much better. And at 100kph and 7psi. It will be cooling that 10 litres to below ambient.
Keeping you exchanger at the front with thermals and running a thermal fan switch set to 45'. Having a bypass to the front heat exchanged and to solenoid valves to open/bypass and 1 before the heat exchanger. This will mean your not using your front heat exchanger until the water temp reaches 45'. It the opens the heat exchanger and closes the bypass aswell as turn the fans on. Instant burst or 3 litres if ambient. While holding the temps at 45' for a long time.
Keeping you exchanger at the front with thermals and running a thermal fan switch set to 45'. Having a bypass to the front heat exchanged and to solenoid valves to open/bypass and 1 before the heat exchanger. This will mean your not using your front heat exchanger until the water temp reaches 45'. It the opens the heat exchanger and closes the bypass aswell as turn the fans on. Instant burst or 3 litres if ambient. While holding the temps at 45' for a long time.
Yes, your right. That's why I said have the exchanger more than twice the size of the cooler and as much surface area as possible. Your cooler holds 1 litre. If your heat exchanger holds 2.5 lites. Then it stays in the heat exchanger 2.5 times longer than the intercooler. The same thing can be said for air volume as a larger volume area slows the air speed down increasing efficency.
If you have a frozen boost kit. It's 1:1. Your cooler holds 1 litre and your exchanger holds 1 litre ( no matter if its the 24x12x1 or the 12x12x2). It's simply never going to work.
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Dynamat isn't a good thermal insulator. It's main purpose is a damper to stop panels vibrating.
get some closed cell foam that can take the heat and use that instead.
I don't think you'll ever get your intake air temps close to your water temperature.
Many years ago I made up my own air/water system out of scrap (washing machine pump, belt driven, cabin heater for radiator, 2.5m of 3/8" copper line coiled in the intake).
A few years later I put thermisters throughout the system to measure temperatures.
The system was only ~15% effective overall, but it did make a noticable difference in slowing heat soak and recovering from it faster. It also worked the opposite way as a heater. Let off the boost and it takes a minute or so for the WTA to drop to the off-boost intake temperatures.
I'm going through a similar situation with process water cooling at the moment in my day job. Several people run system which build an ice-bank overnight and use that stored capacity during the day. Effectively running a lower power refrigeration unit to try and save some $$.
But such systems are awful in practice and always get overwhelmed at some point. Always when they are needed the most. Instead I keep advocating systems that have enough grunt to stay on top of sustained loads and can be shut off overnight.
I think you're trying to do the same thing here. Chill water down to create a bank of coldness which can take the top off your next boost spike. But you'll have the same problems.
It'll never keep up with constant loads and it'll get overwhelmed very quickly when you need it most.
get some closed cell foam that can take the heat and use that instead.
I don't think you'll ever get your intake air temps close to your water temperature.
Many years ago I made up my own air/water system out of scrap (washing machine pump, belt driven, cabin heater for radiator, 2.5m of 3/8" copper line coiled in the intake).
A few years later I put thermisters throughout the system to measure temperatures.
The system was only ~15% effective overall, but it did make a noticable difference in slowing heat soak and recovering from it faster. It also worked the opposite way as a heater. Let off the boost and it takes a minute or so for the WTA to drop to the off-boost intake temperatures.
I'm going through a similar situation with process water cooling at the moment in my day job. Several people run system which build an ice-bank overnight and use that stored capacity during the day. Effectively running a lower power refrigeration unit to try and save some $$.
But such systems are awful in practice and always get overwhelmed at some point. Always when they are needed the most. Instead I keep advocating systems that have enough grunt to stay on top of sustained loads and can be shut off overnight.
I think you're trying to do the same thing here. Chill water down to create a bank of coldness which can take the top off your next boost spike. But you'll have the same problems.
It'll never keep up with constant loads and it'll get overwhelmed very quickly when you need it most.
to bad there was not an wta inter cooler thread . so bigboy i see you answerred gbentinks question about the possibilities of getting 200 whp out of a 1hdt .but both of you say egts would be an issue, so i am confused . is the wta thriller chiller able to cool at your turbos ability of sustained high boost . around where i did most of my testing long mountain hills , i found my cheap junkyard supra front mount inter cooler, and flawed log manifold worked perfect ,but then again i was probably running more boost than you . my thoughts are big manifold pretty much any front mount cooler + big boost= big gains then fuel to comfort zone .
The killer chiller is useful. But isn't large enough for the pull down you'll need. This is why building a custom aftermarket 1 is needed. Plus a very efficient heat exchanger to transfer the refrigerant/coldness into the water charge. The killer chiller is tiny and so is the reserve. So you could say the reserve is the correct size for the ac system. Meaning (like they do) idle the truck and pull it below ambient. Same as putting around town. But heat soak under full throttle isn't to far away. A larger system and reserve prolongs it even further. All these things that work together will withstand the heat soak when run together as 1 system.
When you say your running more boost than me. The turbo at 100 is 7-8psi. Like what has been said, that's what the photo is of. That's the temps at 100k's consistent with a decent size heat exchanger. It almost hold even. So will a refrigeration system pull it down below ambient (absolutely). I'm going to run my turbo to 30psi. With what I've achieved so far. Graeme is more than happy for me to do so, and will built me a new turbo if it blows. Which is very very unlikely. I've already been flying round the streets. The time I'm over 20 psi is mearly for a few seconds at a time. Lets alone minutes at a time. It's fast as and from 0-100 in about 10 seconds. It's not going to over heat. And to further reduce temps when I am loaded. I'll be running it at 15psi with high afr's. this will reduce the air flow through the cooler by half. And higher afr's will temps allround.
Dougal - I am getting my intake temps close to my water temps. When the water temp rises, so does the intake. So far though without any heat soak it always been within 10 degrees of the water.
When you say your running more boost than me. The turbo at 100 is 7-8psi. Like what has been said, that's what the photo is of. That's the temps at 100k's consistent with a decent size heat exchanger. It almost hold even. So will a refrigeration system pull it down below ambient (absolutely). I'm going to run my turbo to 30psi. With what I've achieved so far. Graeme is more than happy for me to do so, and will built me a new turbo if it blows. Which is very very unlikely. I've already been flying round the streets. The time I'm over 20 psi is mearly for a few seconds at a time. Lets alone minutes at a time. It's fast as and from 0-100 in about 10 seconds. It's not going to over heat. And to further reduce temps when I am loaded. I'll be running it at 15psi with high afr's. this will reduce the air flow through the cooler by half. And higher afr's will temps allround.
Dougal - I am getting my intake temps close to my water temps. When the water temp rises, so does the intake. So far though without any heat soak it always been within 10 degrees of the water.
