1HD-T Intake Manifold Modifications (2 Viewers)

[Dougal]

My computers down. I'm on my phone. You'll have to look it up.

"How does post turbo temps of 82C with post intercooler temps of 32C and a flat line of 5C temp rise above ambient sound? That's what we're getting on Matt's one a 50 degrees C temp drop at 8-9 psi."

What's this 8-9psi bollocks? Are we talking strong diesels or petrols still running stock compression?

At 8-9psi diesels don't need any intercooling. The restriction in the intake almost cancels out the density increase.
It's only petrols that benefit from intercooling at that low boost and only because it lets you advance the timing more without pre-ignitiong.
But these problems don't exist on a diesel.

I don't have enough information to find this build of Matt's on an internet search.

8psi boost on a 25C intake with 68% efficiency comes out to 83C out of the turbo.
To take 50C out of that is 85% intercooling.
But, is that steady state and for how long has full boost been happening?

 

[TheBigBoy]

It's all too hard on my phone. What intake restrictions are you talking about? How about we just wait and see what I come up with. While testing though, I'll pm you the results as they happen. Saves alot of arguments.

 

[mudbludger]

Holy cow man. Ever seen a Jackass movie? I don't need to ride down a hill in a shopping cart to know its a bad Idea. Good luck on your ride.

Ha ha this thread has given me a lot of information and entertainment, I would love to see some more plenum mods though, watching the ATEB one with much interest. Awesome seeing the amount of power being squeezed out of these toyota motors from grass roots people.

 

[sailor]

Yeah this thread has degenerated into a 'mine is better' slug fest. Show me these I/C temperature deltas stabilized after running at max performance up a steep highway for more than 10 minutes and I will be convinced.

Having a cold tank that can handle a short temperature spike then need time to restore cooling capacity is about as welcome on my truck as a fart would be inside your space suit.

Sorry, unless you are a redneck mud bogger of course- but then I try to stay away from first cousin loving in the sippy hole...

 

[wrongway around]

gbentink glad to here your turbo is avalible for the larger intake already , and the fact that you feel that a larger intake is benificial in more ways than one.i do think that hearing from someone that understands air flow better than anyone ,i would love to here your take on the best manifold design for a front mount cooler so it can be a universal design (being i do not like the fact of possible catistrofic failure of wta system ,let alone the added cost ). i know by my testing that a tapperred entrance this is a no no,and found even a tapperred plenium a bit of a science. with my latest style i think it would be better if it had a center side entrance dumping from the fender side. fast lane on hills here we come.

 

[mudbludger]

gbentink glad to here your turbo is avalible for the larger intake already , and the fact that you feel that a larger intake is benificial in more ways than one.i do think that hearing from someone that understands air flow better than anyone ,i would love to here your take on the best manifold design for a front mount cooler so it can be a universal design (being i do not like the fact of possible catistrofic failure of wta system ,let alone the added cost ). i know by my testing that a tapperred entrance this is a no no,and found even a tapperred plenium a bit of a science. with my latest style i think it would be better if it had a center side entrance dumping from the fender side. fast lane on hills here we come.

I see where you coming from with this idea, giving the air a straight shot into the cylinder, would be interested in seeing the plumbing from the fender side. Can anyone tell me if the tuned intake length "tunnel ram effect" on some of those skyscraper high intakes on petrol v8's applies to diesels? Was wondering if an intake like this one could provide a similar condition.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Yeah this thread has degenerated into a 'mine is better' slug fest. Show me these I/C temperature deltas stabilized after running at max performance up a steep highway for more than 10 minutes and I will be convinced.

Having a cold tank that can handle a short temperature spike then need time to restore cooling capacity is about as welcome on my truck as a fart would be inside your space suit.

Sorry, unless you are a redneck mud bogger of course- but then I try to stay away from first cousin loving in the sippy hole...

This is what I don't understand. Your saying to hold max performance, max power and max egt's for 10 minutes up a long steep hill. It will never happen (unless you wanted it to). But to keep the truck at 100(62) up a long hill for 10 minutes under load. That's a completely different thing. There is already so much torque and power. You would only be pushing 12-15psi anyway with Gturbo. Add the intake mod and your egt's without any cooling would be around 350-370. As appossed to unloaded on a flat highway 7-8psi and egt's at 200. But then again a manual gearbox might be another factor. And 13-15psi is 100-120' intake temps. Going by Adams current WTA set up with a total of 50% efficency rating. 30 ambient. 120'-30'=90, 90x.5 (50%)= 45'+30'amb= 75'.

 

[mudbludger]

This is what I don't understand. Your saying to hold max performance, max power and max egt's for 10 minutes up a long steep hill. It will never happen (unless you wanted it to). But to keep the truck at 100(62) up a long hill for 10 minutes under load. That's a completely different thing. There is already so much torque and power. You would only be pushing 12-15psi anyway with Gturbo. Add the intake mod and your egt's without any cooling would be around 350-370. As appossed to unloaded on a flat highway 7-8psi and egt's at 200. But then again a manual gearbox might be another factor. And 13-15psi is 100-120' intake temps. Going by Adams current WTA set up with a total of 50% efficency rating. 30 ambient. 120'-30'=90, 90x.5 (50%)= 45'+30'amb= 75'.

(sigh) here we go again.........

 

[TheBigBoy]

Na, we are just chatting . Running my turbo to 27psi and no cooler. The highest egt's I've seen so far is 320. Because when I'm flat over taking at 100. It's not even for 5 seconds. Even up hills.

I port matched and polished my intake manifold. I would have liked to make 1 from scratch. But I don't think there would be much difference with the straight runners as then it would have to take a sharp corner into the cylinder head. Instead of matching the head ports angle and mandrel bending upto the the intake.

 

[Adam B]

Going by Adams current WTA set up with a total of 50% efficency rating. 30 ambient. 120'-30'=90, 90x.5 (50%)= 45'+30'amb= 75'.

Hey! It's 56%

Your saying to hold max performance, max power and max egt's for 10 minutes up a long steep hill. It will never happen (unless you wanted it to).

The thing is, with 35" tires and 4.10 gears with a boat on top and 5-700lbs of gear in the vehicle I really do sit at 21psi and 1300F EGTs for 5-10 minutes at a time in our mountains. All the while, I'm holding 120km/h or more (speed limit there is 110) up an 8% grade while climbing in elevation and losing oxygen.

Check it out... http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/popular-topics/documents/Hwy 5 Coquihalla Pass grade-profile.pdf

And after Merritt there's another 20km of unrelenting hills.

Part of our problem here is that most of our worst hills are between 1000 and 1500m above sea level. Atmospheric pressure drops from 14.7psi to about 12.2psi which has a very serious effect on boosted pressure ratios. This changes my pressure ratio from 2.43 at sea level to 2.72.

 

[Adam B]

I port matched and polished my intake manifold.

Back to intake mods...

Was there more material to be removed from the intake side or the head or both? I haven't had my intake off but whenever I eventually do I'll probably do some port matching.

 

[Dougal]

Na, we are just chatting . Running my turbo to 27psi and no cooler. The highest egt's I've seen so far is 320. Because when I'm flat over taking at 100. It's not even for 5 seconds. Even up hills.

Your EGT readings aren't trustworthy. The probe is either in an extremely cold spot or there is something badly wrong with it.

180C is warm idle for my diesel engines. Stock diesels pull north of 600C.
With 15psi and true readings of 320C max you'd be making about 80kw maximum.

 

[TheBigBoy]

There's nothing wrong with my probe or readings. They are post turbo temps. And been run for years with the stock turbo. So I know what average temps are.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Back to intake mods...

Was there more material to be removed from the intake side or the head or both? I haven't had my intake off but whenever I eventually do I'll probably do some port matching.

The intake manifold had a bad lip due to casting. Took a fair bit off to port match it. Then polished the runners.

 

[gbentink]

gbentink glad to here your turbo is avalible for the larger intake already , and the fact that you feel that a larger intake is benificial in more ways than one.i do think that hearing from someone that understands air flow better than anyone ,i would love to here your take on the best manifold design for a front mount cooler so it can be a universal design (being i do not like the fact of possible catistrofic failure of wta system ,let alone the added cost ). i know by my testing that a tapperred entrance this is a no no,and found even a tapperred plenium a bit of a science. with my latest style i think it would be better if it had a center side entrance dumping from the fender side. fast lane on hills here we come.

Thanks for the compliment, however I certainly don't hanker for or feel worthy of that claim. I recommend a large plenum. On a non tuned system, plenum volume increase is a good thing and provides a better chance of even air distribution (which is my goal over and above higher volumetric efficiency). In engine tuning, you are always limited by the worst cylinder, whether that be VE, or cooling related. So the first thing you want to do is get them as close to the same as practical. My recommendation for years has been to weld on a 4" aluminium pipe to top of manifold (to form late plenum) and weld a 4" tp 2.5" reducer to front, and feed from a front mount air to air. Tapered plenum would be better (larger at entry,) however it would be extremely marginal of an improvement when you get to 4" diameter. Simple, and would likely be better with a fluted entry per cyl, but you have to draw the line somewhere - better spending money on a better intercooler setup in my opinion.

I wish BigBoy well in his inter cooling endeavours, but an eBay 600x300x75 cooler has continued to give the highest dyno test readings on Toyota and Nissan 4.2 diesels than any of the "kits" available that Ive seen

 

[wrongway around]

gbentink your welcome with loads of respect for you and your products. thanks adam for the real time results on the hills . i forsure can hold high 20 s with my turbo for as long as i want {no trailer though}up hills and quite frankly do the larson or coq. well lets just say you would not want to get pulled over, and my egts have not been an issue with high boost on,and that is with probably the max fuel that can be produced out of a tweeked pump .to bad you were not into doing your intake mod and ateb doing some pump work so so you could see what the huge difference is. and my turbo that i had on till just a couple of days ago is nothing special. going to take a break from the truck for a bit then hit it hard with a chinese turbo on just to prove to myself that these things can put out higher hp numbers with nothing special except for hobbiest mods and some ateb fuel pump mods alone . i hope it works. even if i do not get the same results out of this cheap turbo i will dyno it before i put the old turbo back on

 

[Dougal]

There's nothing wrong with my probe or readings. They are post turbo temps. And been run for years with the stock turbo. So I know what average temps are.

Post turbo is wrong for a start.

 

[mudbludger]

Bigboy and Graeme, do you have any pics you can share of the plenum mods? I understand completely if you dont wish to share something that may be still under development. I have a 1hdt and the ft but will be focusing on the dt as a guinea pig first for the g-turbo and plenum mods. Graeme I just sourced a ct26 from a 13bt today, will that be good enough for an exchange? Also could you post any links you have for the front mount ebay intercooler setup, thanks in advance for any info.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Post turbo is wrong for a start.

It's not wrong. It's personal preference. Neither way is wrong solong as you have driven it for a while to gauge average temps before you start modifying it.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Thanks for the compliment, however I certainly don't hanker for or feel worthy of that claim. I recommend a large plenum. On a non tuned system, plenum volume increase is a good thing and provides a better chance of even air distribution (which is my goal over and above higher volumetric efficiency). In engine tuning, you are always limited by the worst cylinder, whether that be VE, or cooling related. So the first thing you want to do is get them as close to the same as practical. My recommendation for years has been to weld on a 4" aluminium pipe to top of manifold (to form late plenum) and weld a 4" tp 2.5" reducer to front, and feed from a front mount air to air. Tapered plenum would be better (larger at entry,) however it would be extremely marginal of an improvement when you get to 4" diameter. Simple, and would likely be better with a fluted entry per cyl, but you have to draw the line somewhere - better spending money on a better intercooler setup in my opinion.

I wish BigBoy well in his inter cooling endeavours, but an eBay 600x300x75 cooler has continued to give the highest dyno test readings on Toyota and Nissan 4.2 diesels than any of the "kits" available that Ive seen

I like to be different.