1HD-T Intake Manifold Modifications

[TheBigBoy]

To answer the question about surge. Yes it lessons the surge as the larger plenum doesn't pressurise as quickly. But this in turn causes lag. I have 1 of Graeme's new spec turbo's (only 1 made so far). Extra low resistance and spools quicker. This helped with my larger plenum. But I'm still not happy with the spool due to the larger plenum and other mods I've made. Remembering its not intercooled yet. A water to air cooler works best at low rpm, so by reducing the intake temps to near ambient (below ambient when finished) and correcting fuel gives more gasses to spool this turbo. It's a scary thought as it spools only 300rpm off where I'd like it to be now already. This engine, turbo and cooler has all been designed to work together.

Using a front mount or no intercooler. I'd recommend a smaller plenum. From what I have done though, will give the best of both worlds. Awesome spool and the larger plenum will pull HIGH numbers, with amazing top end response.

 

[ForealBoreal]

this thread is getting a bit out of hand. Lets stick to tech and photos and try and stay on topic.

http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/showthread.php?97392-Landcruiser-fans-1HDT-GT30-etc

 

[TheBigBoy]

I know that build and truck. It's a gt30 turbo. That plenum was too small and needs to be almost twice the volume.

 

[ForealBoreal]

Taken from this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130781417087

Ebay username "motorhsv"



Hi you are looking at my custom built aluminum race intake plenum to suit a 4.2 1hz landcruiser engine.. I have designed these to supply the 4x4 enthusiasts with an upgrade option when modifying their cruiser.. These plenums make it very easy to run intercooler piping when placing a
Front mount intercooler.. It is a 4 inch sub barrel type plenum that flows a huge amount in comparison to the restrictive standard plenum.. It will improve engine hp greatly and also boost response.. The plenum runners are all ported and highly polished inside for flow... These make a huge difference.. And look
Great to match !!! You are looking at a
Brand new item.. I have one on my own cruiser and I have 3 new ones currently on the build.. This one is complete and ready To be sent.. It's the one pictured.. Was only placed on engine for purpose of photos.. These plenums are unique.. To my knowledge no one has ever built such a trick plenum for a
Cruiser.. Time to keep up with the patrols.. Happy bidding please feel free to call on 0417127117 if you have any questions.. I Will post for free if buy it now is used.. Thanks

 

[ForealBoreal]

Adding a few more.
The only issue I see with that one is doing that throttle cable.

 

[wrongway around]

addressing to myself more or less. these are questions i have asked myself over and over for the past year regaurding the intake mod turbo matching thing,but it does apply here too. ya my thoughts are all over the map ,my english and gramer stinks ,i cant express myself ,and im dislectic. what ever . i dont mean to piss anyone off .feel free if someone can answer the questions answer them . i believe my truck is the only one that has done this intake mod before , and feel that it can go way farther the more people who add to it the better especially if we can keep at least the intake mod a hobbiest thing.

 

[ForealBoreal]

addressing to myself more or less. these are questions i have asked myself over and over for the past year regaurding the intake mod turbo matching thing,but it does apply here too. ya my thoughts are all over the map ,my english and gramer stinks ,i cant express myself ,and im dislectic. what ever . i dont mean to **** anyone off .feel free if someone can answer the questions answer them . i believe my truck is the only one that has done this intake mod before , and feel that it can go way farther the more people who add to it the better especially if we can keep at least the intake mod a hobbiest thing.

no offense really taken. There is some interesting discussion.
Would REALLY like to see a few shots under the hood of your rig.

 

[wrongway around]

boy i missed alot thats great ,nice work .that last one is my settup exactly,the cable was a breeze for ateb.as i said before i just got a cylinder from the scrap yard and added it on top basically. kind of changed a bit i am toying with a cheap turbo to see if i can match where i was already ,and i think it is doable on a dime turbo budget,we will see though, but at least i know i can always go back

 

[ForealBoreal]

post it up.
the world loves pictures

 

[VK3FHDJ]

That GT30 build looks ok, apart from the ugly airbox and snorkel.

That MotorHSV manifold would surely see high EGT in 5 & 6 too as the air velocity drops off in the manifold.

 

[Gengis]

That GT30 build looks ok, apart from the ugly airbox and snorkel.

That MotorHSV manifold would surely see high EGT in 5 & 6 too as the air velocity drops off in the manifold.

I thought that the whole point of the large volume is for this NOT to happen.. the charge air should be available at all times if it's properly designed, or do In have it all wrong???

 

[gerg]

There are some good advantages for WTA systems and room for a nice size core is not to be underextemated. It makes fitment in a cramped engine bay much easier. If you mean that ATA front mount intercoolers have a 65% effeciency rating then I would disagree unless it was a really small core or purely bad design. I think fronts get the largest volume of air and benifit from a massive fan (engine) that is always sucking more than an adequate amount to cool even thick cores. I would be estemating, based on my core size and numbers, that you could easily get into the low 80s with an oversized ebay core.
I went ATA top mount with a 4 inch core and feel it is too thick and will change it out for a 3inch core. Even with this core, that I feel is not ideal, I am getting 68% effeciency after prolonged boost. I was actually disapointed with that and want it more in the mid 70s.
I disagree with your statement that "The heat value transfer rate from air to water (no matter if its hot or cold) is the same." That is absolutely not true at all and as you increase the disparity from one medium to another you increase effeciency. Other than that, nice install.
g

 

[wrongway around]

gengis you are right, but the flow game that these small turbos can produce totally changes ,if it cannot keep up with volume you run huge egts pretty quick(no.6 first).like the a442 tranny it does have a limit , and both are realised quite quick with this simple intake volume mod and fuel . someone touched on the bigger the intake the smaller the intercooer,this is a good theroy i figure but why cant you have both .front mount coolers are if nothing else are safer less mantaianance and greener.

 

[TheBigBoy]

There are some good advantages for WTA systems and room for a nice size core is not to be underextemated. It makes fitment in a cramped engine bay much easier. If you mean that ATA front mount intercoolers have a 65% effeciency rating then I would disagree unless it was a really small core or purely bad design. I think fronts get the largest volume of air and benifit from a massive fan (engine) that is always sucking more than an adequate amount to cool even thick cores. I would be estemating, based on my core size and numbers, that you could easily get into the low 80s with an oversized ebay core.
I went ATA top mount with a 4 inch core and feel it is too thick and will change it out for a 3inch core. Even with this core, that I feel is not ideal, I am getting 68% effeciency after prolonged boost. I was actually disapointed with that and want it more in the mid 70s.
I disagree with your statement that "The heat value transfer rate from air to water (no matter if its hot or cold) is the same." That is absolutely not true at all and as you increase the disparity from one medium to another you increase effeciency. Other than that, nice install.
g

Sorry, but the heat value is correct. The efficency rating is correct (average is 65% on a ata). 80% of the ATA intercoolers cooling is done in the first 6" of the core.


If you have 2 WTA cores the exact same size, 150' air temps hitting 1. 30' hitting the other, whats the average water temp going to be. = 90'. No temperature is dominant and it is the medium between the high and ambient.

 

[gerg]

This is a great thread. Wow that ebay log manifold looks like someone spent alot of time welding and not enough time planning. The last couple cylinders will for sure be starved, and that transition from intake to plenum is really bad and will cavitate and starve out #1 cyl as well. I wouldnt think that was much of an improvement over stock, although monitoring egts from each cylinder would be the only true way to know.

It would be neat to see a pic of your manifold Wrongway as it sounds like modifying the origional manifold, be either enlarging the plenum or adapting a second plenum, could really even out the flow to the end cylinders and cut down on the fabricating.

Sorry, but the heat value is correct. The efficency rating is correct (average is 65% on a ata). 80% of the ATA intercoolers cooling is done in the first 6" of the core.
If you have 2 WTA cores the exact same size, 150' air temps hitting 1. 30' hitting the other, whats the average water temp going to be. = 90'. No temperature is dominant and it is the medium between the high and ambient.

65% ATA intercoolers do exist but that is a gross underestemate of what is doable with a frontmount set up. And I do agree with the maximum cooling being achieved in the first 6 inches of a core. The reason however, is because as the charge temp cools there is a lower disparity with ambient and thus the core's effeciency drops, you do suffer all the backpressure though.

For your formula I get 84 degrees myself, but that is using 75% effecient cores which is quite good. Now using that example of a 75% effecient core and 75% effecient radiator to cool your water, you get approx 56% effecient (.75 x .75). So just on paper WTA is less effecient. Their only great bennifit is the time it takes to heat up your coolant can give you lower than ambient temps. Like the time it take to drag a quater mile. After that is all lower effeciencies.

"by reducing the intake temps to near ambient (below ambient when finished) and correcting fuel gives more gasses to spool this turbo"
How exactly do you plan on doing this?

 

[TheBigBoy]

Your forgetting though that the number quoted on the WTA is close to heat soak. WTA with just water is 90% efficency. It all depends how well it's set up. My below ambient temps are by using a ice box cooler for testing. If goes well I will build a ac refrigeration system.

 

[ham00]

That MotorHSV manifold would surely see high EGT in 5 & 6 too as the air velocity drops off in the manifold.

I remember reading something along these lines a few weeks ago on a different forum

But damed if i can find it know

Hamo

 

[Dougal]

Your forgetting though that the number quoted on the WTA is close to heat soak. WTA with just water is 90% efficency. It all depends how well it's set up. My below ambient temps are by using a ice box cooler for testing. If goes well I will build a ac refrigeration system.

Your AC system won't be powerful enough. A 4.2 diesel at 20psi at 2000rpm with a 70% effective (efficient is the wrong word) intercooler needs to shed almost 17kw of heat.
What's your A/C system good for, 3kw?

I feel there is some misunderstanding of a plenum here. The job of a plenum is to slow the air right down to minimise the effect any intake velocity has on the individual cylinder.
I also feel that the old petrol thing of flow-benching is taken too far. People who talk about a new manifold hugely out-flowing an old one. But sucking 8-10x the air velocity through a manifold in steady state to test it is a completely different situation to how they work.
In operation they are taking a slug of air roughly equal to one cylinder full through each runner in time.

 

[gerg]

If you have 2 WTA cores the exact same size, 150' air temps hitting 1. 30' hitting the other, whats the average water temp going to be. = 90'. No temperature is dominant and it is the medium between the high and ambient.

Im not sure what your trying to say here, but if your giving an example of a WTA cores effeciency, its probably accurate, but hardly impressive. That example is running 50% effeciency by the way.

 

[TheBigBoy]

Your AC system won't be powerful enough. A 4.2 diesel at 20psi at 2000rpm with a 70% effective (efficient is the wrong word) intercooler needs to shed almost 17kw of heat.
What's your A/C system good for, 3kw?

I feel there is some misunderstanding of a plenum here. The job of a plenum is to slow the air right down to minimise the effect any intake velocity has on the individual cylinder.
I also feel that the old petrol thing of flow-benching is taken too far. People who talk about a new manifold hugely out-flowing an old one. But sucking 8-10x the air velocity through a manifold in steady state to test it is a completely different situation to how they work.
In operation they are taking a slug of air roughly equal to one cylinder full through each runner in time.

I will find out if it works alright. I'm not cooling the air, I'm cooling (or keeping cool) the water that cools the air. It's not the cruisers current ac. Running a larger compressor also, and the heat exchanger possition becomes the new condenser. Have to work out how much refridgerant is needed. According to a leading ac guy, and my findings thus far. Can be done.