1FZ Dry sump oil system

bjowett

 
 
 
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Has anyone else thought about adding a dry sump to the 1FZ engine?:D It almost looks as though Toyota was originally designing the engine's oiling system to be the dry sump type. The cast into the block power steering pump location looks perfect for a scavenge pump that could easily feed the main pump through that big plug in the front of the stock alloy pan. The attention to getting oil back into the pan in quite impressive. The windage tray, the oil level sensor is perfect for mounting in the tank..... what say ye?
 

IdahoDoug

 
 
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Brian,

Since we know this is a worthless thread now, I realized I've been meaning to ask you about your Toureg. How do you like it, what MPG, etc?? <blatant hijack warning on>

DougM
 

bjowett

 
 
 
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Not totally worthless... just need to explore a little more.

The T-reg is wife's ride (though I use it quite a bit), nice, very solid vehicle. Fun, very fast, the best and probably only real cross over vehicle made. Fit and finish are some of the best in the biz... Not a Toyota by any means in terms of reliability. It is capable offroad, and would be more capable if it had some articulation (4 wheel independent suspension). Mileage is mid teens at best. The V10 diesel wil get over 20mpg and is faster yet...

More info if you want.
 

IdahoDoug

 
 
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How do you think it would tow 6000lbs? Does it feel like it would be able to take command of that much weight on the road? I understand it's rated at over 7000lbs - amazing. I'm surprised at the mid teen everyday MPG - would have expected better considering all the modern technology in it, despite its weight. Good to know.
 
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bjowett said:
Anything is possible, even tires up. Significant HP increases can also be found. You are right, may be too high.
Ok I could see that it may be helpful for tire up operation but quick engine kill on roll over could do the same.

Where does the HP increase come from? I could see if you often wind up sloshing oil to where the crank can strike it (tilt/ g force) but other than that I do not see where it fits in on a cruiser. also you will have to drive a scavenge pump who’s pumping rate will have to be reliably higher than that of the mail oil pump that would be a slight drag (not much though) also the tank will need to handle air/oil separation,

Dry sump is kind of neat but it is a hefty mod not sure I see where you get much return for you money/time invested on a cruiser, I hate to be discouraging, maybe I am missing something?
 

bjowett

 
 
 
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The T-reg will handle it OK... probably similar to how the Land Cruiser handles it... it's not a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. I have never towed with it, but could imagine the air suspension handling the tongue weight quite well. The V8 Power and drivetrain will handle it no problem as they are very beefy. Brakes are huge and unreal GOOD, 6 piston Brembo over 13"+ rotors up front, 4 piston out back, stopping won't be an issue.

As for the drysump.... I am trying to figure out why a few of these engines are losing a rod bearing. I understand the drysump system and layout, my snowmobile and brother's Porsche both use em'. It looks good from more of an oil control standpoint than actual HP gains... I have a feeling the oil may be surging around a bit in various situations and leaving the pump starved. This whole post statrted because it looks like the 1FZ was intended to have a dry sump. Looking around I see plenty of scavenge pumps at crank level, which is not totally ideal, but works well enough....
 
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They don't run upside down well, the PCV and breather fill the intake with oil and hydro lock the motor. Been there, done that!:eek:
 

IdahoDoug

 
 
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Brian,

I've never heard of the 1FZ engine having any bottom end issues (you mention a rod bearing??). Are you thinking of the diesel, which had some big end issues overseas?

DougM
 
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only one I have heard of was Robbies, he had problems with the oil pressure relief spring causeing a loss in oil pressure at high RPM. he lost some bearings.

I replaced mine as PM after hearing of that.
 

bjowett

 
 
 
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IdahoDoug said:
Brian,

I've never heard of the 1FZ engine having any bottom end issues (you mention a rod bearing??). Are you thinking of the diesel, which had some big end issues overseas?

DougM
Nope, not the diesels with questionable flaking bearings. I'll try to search em' out on here as I am quite sure mine is far from the first to have bottom end noises.

The spring and plunger are both being replaced, along with a little blue printing of the oil pump... It may even go out for some coatings.

The dry sump idea has been dropped in favor of a surge baffle. This should keep most of the 7 quarts in the lower pan.

 
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I am digging the baffle, about where in relation to the upper/lower pan split is the normal oil level? did you have to make a cut out for the dip stick?
 

bjowett

 
 
 
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There is a hole in the baffle for the dip stick to poke through.The baffle sits submerged, just below the upper of level of a full pan when the engine is not running. There should be roughly 2+ quarts in the engine while running, so it won't trap air in the lower pan. The tapered angle towards the pickup along with some grooooooves in select spots help get oil back to the pan. I think the last oil pan mod will be a crank scraper.
 

e9999

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could somebody explain in plain english for the unedjudicated amoung us what this dry sump thing is and is about?
 

IBCRUSN

 
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Here is a couple of links with decent descriptions:

http://www.drysump.com/drysump.htm

http://www.nhra.com/dragster/1999/issue14/tech_speaking.html (lengthly)

For the easiest/simplest description, dry-sump systems are usually used in engines that experiecne more than average g forces, i.e. racing engines, aircraft (all turbine and some recips). Although your average Cessna, Piper, Beech, etc. has a wet sump virtually all serious acro planes are dry sump for the g's and inverted flight. I have seen a couple street rods use dry sump systems but that was dictated by ground clearance issues (no room for traditional oil pan). As far as the every day on/off road vehicles it isn't practical for two reasons, cost and complexity. Hope this helps.
 

bjowett

 
 
 
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Therein lies the beauty of the 1FZ... it's more than halfway there. Mount a scavenge pump in place of the PS pump, remove the lower steel pan and place a flat plate in there with scavenge port....Oil tank plumbed back to the stock oil pump through the plug in the front of the #2 pan....this point is moot for me.
 

e9999

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IBCRUSN said:
Here is a couple of links with decent descriptions:

http://www.drysump.com/drysump.htm

http://www.nhra.com/dragster/1999/issue14/tech_speaking.html (lengthly)

For the easiest/simplest description, dry-sump systems are usually used in engines that experiecne more than average g forces, i.e. racing engines, aircraft (all turbine and some recips). Although your average Cessna, Piper, Beech, etc. has a wet sump virtually all serious acro planes are dry sump for the g's and inverted flight. I have seen a couple street rods use dry sump systems but that was dictated by ground clearance issues (no room for traditional oil pan). As far as the every day on/off road vehicles it isn't practical for two reasons, cost and complexity. Hope this helps.

excellent, thanks
 
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