160amp ACE Alternator info and install

[Stevesnj]

I am not concerned with what you do; I am concerned that others might get ripped off by thinking this is a 160 amp output alternator when the manufacturer does not explicitly state this simple fact on their web site. In print, they only say it as 160A diodes. That is all. Carry on.

I agree and see your points, I am very curious on the test results, it is going to be done at my school by an ASE certified instructor. I will get to watch the process and hopefully tape it. Hopefully this thread will help our fellow mud members and possibly find out, the hard way at my expense, that this company is not legit in their claims.

 

[toyofan]

This is great info. Thanks for doing the testing and research Steve. I am with you that I want a higher out put alternator but don't want to add custom work

 

[Stevesnj]

This is great info. Thanks for doing the testing and research Steve. I am with you that I want a higher out put alternator but don't want to add custom work

Well I'd wait until I confirm the alternator output before you think about investing in this alternator.

 

[Dave 2000]

In the past I have seen a lot of different claims for alternator output, and have come to the conclusion that you are better off going with an OEM alternator with a known and established output and reliability record.

I went with the Sequoia alternator with 150 amps a unit known for it's output and no reliability issue that I have seen thus far. https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/365673-my-lc-80-thread-4.html

It bolted on the standard mounting bracket with only a minor alteration the adjuster bar, the standard plug fitted and the only other obvious modification was to increase cable size to the batteries.

In my experience the nearer you are to a good OEM design the better in the long term, just my two euros worth.

regards

Dave 2000

 

[Stevesnj]

Well if this doesn't pan out I will go with the sequoia alternator.

 

[rhyary]

Steve,
Thanks for taking the trouble to check this option out.

To all, why attacking the one who "volunteer" to check this option out? Not useful

Instead, those of you who has the technical knowledge, advice Steve on how to test the alternator so we all know the output is. Useful

After all, what useful is to know what this one is putting out at specific voltage not what it compares to.

Once we have verifiable data, each person can make their own mind about what they want to do with this option.

So, bottom line, let's discuss the method Steve will be using to get data.

See Photoman procedure as a place to start

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[half k cruiser]

Damn it Steve, we are all patiently waiting for your report on this ! Some of us have been patiently waiting since you first posted this thread last month. Now Christmas is coming so I bet we will have to be patient for another week. Let us know.

Patiently yours

Half K

 

[jtwopark]

Don't want to crash this thread but along the lines of a new alternator option, If I run 2 20" baja design lights and 8 8" lights on the roof rack...will I have to run a higher output alternator? I tried searching but just didn't really come up with any results that I could use.

I have seen people just adding lights to their 80s but have not specified if they upgraded their alternator capabilities.

 

[Pin_Head]

To all, why attacking the one who "volunteer" to check this option out? Not useful

Instead, those of you who has the technical knowledge, advice Steve on how to test the alternator so we all know the output is. Useful

IH8MUD

To all, why attacking the one who wants to prevent people from getting "ripped off" by fraudsters? Not helpful.

Steve has been advised on how to test the output of alternators in the first half of this thread. Read and pay attention.

It might take 10 minutes and a $20 clip on amp meter to do the test, but to make it a fair and balanced comparison, you need to do the same test on the stock alternator too.

 

[Stevesnj]

Well to answer some of the question I have not been able to get to the alternator install yet. I work 13 hour days as a special education teacher and to say the least I have minimal time for projects. Anyway, I will be doing the install sometime this upcoming week as I am on break, whew!

Also Pin Head has valid points and we seem to have resolved it so no need to churn up calm waters. When i return to work the auto instructor will be testing the amperage output on the alternator I will post the results on here, good or bad, and move on.

Have a good holiday everyone.

 

[toyofan]

So when are you going to do the experiment? Put a clip on amp meter on the B+ wire and then ground it momentarily with the engine running at 2,500 RPM. That will show you the max it can put out when running off of its regulator in the most extreme output demand situation it could encounter. If you want to believe that it is a 160 amp alternator, then fine; I don't have a problem with that. But when you repeat this claim as if it is an established fact, then you are misleading other people. I think they should know that you don't get something (more power) for nothing so they don't get ripped off.

Can you post a pic of the best place to do this ? Also by momentary you mean seconds ? Minutes ? I want to do this test on my stock alternator but i am afraid to burn something up

 

[Pin_Head]

Momentarily means long enough to read the meter.

Disconnect the large battery wire at the alternator and put on a new piece of 6 ga wire.

Hook up a 200 amp meter to the wire and ground the other end. Start at idle and then rev it up to 3,000 with the wire grounded. The higher the PRM, the more power, but you don't want to rev it up with the wire disconnected as the open circuit voltage could exceed the diode limits.

You can use a clip on amp meter, but the cheap ones are AC only. You need DC.

You can weld with an alternator, so they can tolerate a dead short for long enough to weld with. There is some risk but it would be the same risk as charging a completely discharged battery. Alternatively, you could use a completely discharged battery, but it probably won't draw quite as much as a dead short.

 

[Photoman]

I stopped by my local alternator shop today and had a talk with them about high output alternators. For what it is worth the old man has been there in business since he got out of the Navy from WW2. He said they used to do high output Delco alternators by switching in different stators and rotors but quit due to high failure rates from heat. He thought some did not fail because customers rarely if ever used those alternators at increased or near full output thereby avoiding some of the heat problems. They had a higher output alternator but always operated it within the stock amp range. Another thing he said is they get Summit and other high output alternators in from time to time for repairs and they test out at stock amps. I don't know?

One suggestion for a test would be to take an IR temperature reading of the alternator before and after the full load alternator test of a minute or so. It would take a decent carbon pile load tester for this test. Heat is always a killer for electrics.

With any of the load tests it would be good to note both the volts and the amps.

I wish you luck with the testing.

Bill

 

[Pin_Head]

That sounds right to me. It doesn't violate the first law of thermodynamics: You don't get something for nothing.

I have seen GM and other alternators that have rotors and stators that are double the width of the stock ones, so it is easy to imagine that it might have twice the output. These also mounted the diode pack and voltage regulator outside of the case for better cooling.

 

[OGBeno]

These also mounted the diode pack and voltage regulator outside of the case for better cooling.

So what is the rationale for manufacturers going with internally regulated ALTs vs externally regulated ALTs?

Is it merely heat?

 

[1973Guppie]

like I said before, got a similar alternator like this ebay and it left me stranded, never again. Go with the sequoia conversion.

 

[Pin_Head]

So what is the rationale for manufacturers going with internally regulated ALTs vs externally regulated ALTs?

Is it merely heat?

In that particular case with the larger rotor and stator is was for heat. I think that the more common rationale for an internal regulator is that it is integrated into one part. One less part in inventory and one less part number to remember.

 

[OGBeno]

In that particular case with the larger rotor and stator is was for heat. I think that the more common rationale for an internal regulator is that it is integrated into one part. One less part in inventory and one less part number to remember.

I can see that from a logistical point of view.

Is there any real design difference or how they operate between the two?

For example, Toyota still provides part support for the internal as well as externally regulated 2F iterations.

There must be a reason or your logic would come into play.

 

[ChaseTruck]

... the first law of thermodynamics: You don't get something for nothing...

Somehow, this always seems to get in the way of good things... and come to think of it, this appears to be fundamentally un-American.

And by the way, I'm not grounding a piece of cable that might carry 160 Amps... good luck to whoever does.

 

[1973Guppie]

I can see that from a logistical point of view.

Is there any real design difference or how they operate between the two?

For example, Toyota still provides part support for the internal as well as externally regulated 2F iterations.

There must be a reason or your logic would come into play.

most likely the reason is the advancement of semiconductor technology becoming small enough to be able to actually "fit" inside the carrier of the alternator. Back in the day the components were probably just too big.