Need input: 2F or V8? (2 Viewers)

[bikersmurf]

First off, three speeds have generally been considered marginal at best behind a three-speed. I'd highly recommend ditching the three-speed in favor of a stronger transmission. That will require different driveshafts... or compromises that shouldn't be made.

If you swap in a split case transmission, you'll lose the t-case mounted e-brake and will need to find a different solution. 1) One option would be a newer 40 series axle. 2) Another option would be to do a disc brake conversion using GM mini-calipers using calipers that have an e-brake on the caliper. They have issues working with the Toyota range of motion of the e-brake lever... or so I've read. 3) Find a split case mounted E-brake of a different kind.

I'm very happy with 33s, 3.70 gears, a stock '74 four-speed, and a healthy 350. LS motors likely make more sense in many ways... but weren't an option for me when I did my V8 swap in '96. When that $300 350 died 21 years later it was much easier to drop in another (even nicer) $300 350 4-bolt main than to rebuild the older '69 engine or swap in an LS engine. In 3rd gear it'll pull from 800 rpm, it'll easily start in 2nd, and it'll easily cruise along at 60 mph with a light throttle.

 

[Downey]

I'm an old guy now, so I only have a few more years to wonder why anybody who had a V8 Landcruiser could ever go back to the 6 cylinder tractor motor ??? If you choose the 6 cylinder, I would not be a buyer for your 3 speed adapter, but would be a buyer for your V8 motor mounts. I restore/upgrade used Landcruiser parts, my retirement hobby that keeps me out of Bars, and makes me some coin now and then- - -easy deal.

 

[tls3601]

The most compelling reason to go back to a 6 at this point would be to "return it to original". A 2F is not original in this case.

Did I miss something, unaware on ANY FJ40 coming from Japan with a V8. Purist here so I say original straight 6 all the way. It is what makes a FJ40 a FJ40. To me putting domestic V8 in a quality built Japanese vehicle would be much akin to having a Ferrari and putting in a Hyundai engine.

 

[Fast Eddy]

Did I miss something, unaware on ANY FJ40 coming from Japan with a V8. Purist here so I say original straight 6 all the way. It is what makes a FJ40 a FJ40. To me putting domestic V8 in a quality built Japanese vehicle would be much akin to having a Ferrari and putting in a Hyundai engine.

His point was that a 2f was not the "original straight 6" in a '73. I was thinking a 1fz-fe would be a great swap, but it's a lot of work.

My '76 has an FJ60 2f. most people wouldn't even be able to tell, but Dan would see it right away.

To the OP: You can pick up an LS 4.8 take-out for around $1500 as they are less desirable. With an SM-4xx and a split case with some low-gears added in you'd have a pretty amazing setup for off-road on a low budget.

 

[cruiserdan]

His point was that a 2f was not the "original straight 6" in a '73. I was thinking a 1fz-fe would be a great swap, but it's a lot of work.

My '76 has an FJ60 2f. most people wouldn't even be able to tell, but Dan would see it right away.

To the OP: You can pick up an LS 4.8 take-out for around $1500 as they are less desirable. With an SM-4xx and a split case with some low-gears added in you'd have a pretty amazing setup for off-road on a low budget.

Correct. A 2F is not the correct engine. However it is possible to disguise one to make it look older than it is. I'm not sure it's worth it but, it is something to see.

 

[Living in the Past]

Correct. A 2F is not the correct engine. However it is possible to disguise one to make it look older than it is. I'm not sure it's worth it but, it is something to see.
View attachment 3121991

That picture is of a F135 that has no oil fill in the valve cover. The F155 in a 73 does and would make it easier to disguise.

 

[JackA]

That picture is of a F135 that has no oil fill in the valve cover. The F155 in a 73 does and would make it easier to disguise.

Looks like someone added an oil fill to that valve cover.

 

[cruiserdan]

Looks like someone added an oil fill to that valve cover.

Yup.

It also has a 2F carb, distributor, alternator and oil cooler. It all looks factory and if you didn't know better you'd swear it is.

 

[Living in the Past]

I'm an old guy now, so I only have a few more years to wonder why anybody who had a V8 Landcruiser could ever go back to the 6 cylinder tractor motor ???

While we call it a tractor motor it will push a FJ40 faster than a true tractor motor pushes a tractor. In today's world of modern traffic and much safer vehicles than one that is based off one designed in the fifties. The FJ40 is closer to a tractor versus a modern SUV. It also debatable when a FJ40 is no longer a FJ40 when upgrades done are also common ones done to a jeep. 2F engine replacing a F engine it is still a FJ40 engine.

 

[Living in the Past]

Yup.

It also has a 2F carb, distributor, alternator and oil cooler. It all looks factory and if you didn't know better you'd swear it is.

The small thermostat housing is a dead give away that it's not original.

 

[cruiserdan]

The small thermostat housing is a dead give away that it's not original.

Original 2F... in a 67

It's not a "perfect disguise".

 

[tls3601]

His point was that a 2f was not the "original straight 6" in a '73. I was thinking a 1fz-fe would be a great swap, but it's a lot of work.

My '76 has an FJ60 2f. most people wouldn't even be able to tell, but Dan would see it right away.

To the OP: You can pick up an LS 4.8 take-out for around $1500 as they are less desirable. With an SM-4xx and a split case with some low-gears added in you'd have a pretty amazing setup for off-road on a low budget.

Yes

 

[Grayscale]

His point was that a 2f was not the "original straight 6" in a '73. I was thinking a 1fz-fe would be a great swap, but it's a lot of work.

My '76 has an FJ60 2f. most people wouldn't even be able to tell, but Dan would see it right away.

To the OP: You can pick up an LS 4.8 take-out for around $1500 as they are less desirable. With an SM-4xx and a split case with some low-gears added in you'd have a pretty amazing setup for off-road on a low budget.

This is interesting to me because the Muncie 420 isn't all that extra clutching that I have to do with my H42, - SM-4xx is basically a tough, syncronized 3-speed with granny.

Would it have cross-member issues on the older FJ40 frames - you eliminate the drum? I've seen aftermarket discs that take the role of the old driveshaft drum brake, but anyone know if it is any good, or if it even fits?

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Correct. A 2F is not the correct engine. However it is possible to disguise one to make it look older than it is. I'm not sure it's worth it but, it is something to see.
View attachment 3121991

Seems like it was worth it enough for the truck to go into the Heritage museum.

 

[Grayscale]

In English, 2F translates to - "up any hill in 3rd-gear."

 

[Fast Eddy]

This is interesting to me because the Muncie 420 isn't all that extra clutching that I have to do with my H42, - SM-4xx is basically a tough, syncronized 3-speed with granny.

Would it have cross-member issues on the older FJ40 frames - you eliminate the drum? I've seen aftermarket discs that take the role of the old driveshaft drum brake, but anyone know if it is any good, or if it even fits?

I'm not the guy to answer your questions, but I'm pretty sure they're popular in 40's because they are short and can easily be adapted to a cruiser t-case. I have had all Toyota parts in my 2 40s, currently h41+a 4:1 Orion which is great for crawling, but honestly a bit low for some 4x4 duties I have in my role with state parks.

 

[Tigerstripe40]

This is interesting to me because the Muncie 420 isn't all that extra clutching that I have to do with my H42, - SM-4xx is basically a tough, syncronized 3-speed with granny.

Would it have cross-member issues on the older FJ40 frames - you eliminate the drum? I've seen aftermarket discs that take the role of the old driveshaft drum brake, but anyone know if it is any good, or if it even fits?

I did an SM420 15 years ago or so.
A SM420 is super cool in a 40.
With an index ring and a few other small parts, it bolts up to the 3 speed bellhousing.
Gears are 7:1, 3.5:1 1.7:1 and 1:1 Basically doubles your crawl ratio.

You used to be able to get a plate adapter to retain the 3 or 4 speed one piece t-case, and a gear to adapt the t-case. When I went from an H42 → SM420 the driveshafts bolted up (though I had to swap the front output flange for a '3 speed' flange and use the slip yoke and u-joint from a '3-speed' driveshaft). Retained the drum, fit with the cross member. I was even able to modify the 4 speed shift cane to run with the SM420. It's *ALMOST* like it was intended to be there.

It was really really simple to do and a worthwhile upgrade for a tight budget.

That said 4th gear is 'crunchy' so I double clutch to get in gear -and that was with a new old stock military surplus ConDiesel Gamma Goat SM420.

Truck has been sitting for a few years while I decide what to do about the body, but the SM420 parts may be available on the classifieds section soon.

 

[pb4ugo]

This is interesting to me because the Muncie 420 isn't all that extra clutching that I have to do with my H42, - SM-4xx is basically a tough, syncronized 3-speed with granny.

That can be said with the h41, h42, sm420, sm465, and the like, then there's 5 speeds, h55s, nv4500s, and the like, they become 4 speeds. Do you start off in 1st gear with your h42? I rarely did.

 

[Grayscale]

That can be said with the h41, h42, sm420, sm465, and the like, then there's 5 speeds, h55s, nv4500s, and the like, become 4 speeds. Do you start off in 1st gear with your h42? I rarely did.

I always use first gear from a stop in the H42, especially when cold and carb is still slightly choked. Second gear always feels too slow for traffic and non-challenging soil terrain. (4.11s, stockish diameter tires) But, I do use second, most of the time. Going from fist to third isn't that big of a jump, and you might even use a bit less throttle, ultimately.

To me, the stock '72 or '73 is the most under-celebrated drivetrain of all the 40's. It is a Land Cruiser, and from start to finish, they were all amazing. The most rational upgrade from that, in my mind, is a Tacoma, 4Runner etc, or anything that has modern suspension and steering. I have some parts for my own three-speed-on-the-floor project.

I say get the truck back on the road regarding the engine, as fast as possible. Then work on the gearboxes / driveshafts / shifter levers independently while you shakedown the details about the motor while racking up miles on the odometer. That is, if you know that you don't have to move the motor mounts from where they currently are.

 

[Fast Eddy]

That can be said with the h41, h42, sm420, sm465, and the like, then there's 5 speeds, h55s, nv4500s, and the like, they become 4 speeds. Do you start off in 1st gear with your h42? I rarely did.

H41 as well. The one drawback is that, even with 35s, 1st gear is still required, but just for a couple seconds. I would typically shift to 2nd while crossing through an intersection, but 2nd is still too tall to comfortably start out. I got used to it.