Electrical (I think) mystery with my Fj62 (1 Viewer)

[matmattmatthew]

I was hoping my first thread on MUD was going to be my build thread but alas it's this one. Quick background: I purchased my 89 FJ62 with 224k last spring from a gentleman in PA who bought it in 2003 from California so despite it currently being an East Coast cruiser, it's not a complete rust bucket because of it's early years in CA. It is also a fairly heavily modified cruiser, H55, rear locker, 2" suspension lift, 2" body lift, ARB bumper, welded on sliders, "custom" rear swingout bumper that can hold compressed air, 38 gallon tank, Electric fan, 33" tires (previously had 35").

The issue: About 2 months ago I had a few times where the truck wouldn't start first try then I had a period where it sat in my garage for about 2 weeks without being driven. I jumped it and let it run for about 5 minutes but it would slowly start to die. I jumped it again and left the cables connected to my other car for 10+ minutes, then I took the cables off and sure enough it died a couple minutes later. My battery was only about a 2 years old so I assumed it was the alternator, seeing as it was original. Fast forward 2 weeks and I've sourced a Reman'd Toyota Alternator from Man-a-fre and install it without much grief. I get my wife's car and jump start the truck, it roars to life on the first try. I let it sit and idle for probably 30+ minutes, didn't hesitate or stall at all. Hopped in the cab, turn the motor off then tried to start it under it's own power and all I hear is one single "click". Tried a few more times but nothing, I jumped it again and let it run then tried again under its own power with the same results.

So I go ahead and buy a reman'd starter motor (I'm going to rebuild mine as well to have a backup). I get the starter motor installed and jump the truck again, let it run for 20 minutes, then try to start it under it's own power and I get the same single "click". To completely rule out the battery I went ahead and replaced it with a new Deka battery. Now, I'm actually worse off, the truck won't even start with a jump, I still get that single "click" which I believe to be the starter solenoid. I checked, there is no fuseable link between the battery and starter, just a straight wire. Any suggestions?

 

[php74]

Sounds like maybe a grounding problem. That’d explain most of what you described I think. And when jumping it’s getting grounded from the other vehicle, and not charging your battery?? Check your battery with a meter...it’s a theory : ). Good luck!

 

[John McVicker]

When I had my 62 I had the same starting issues, click, click click. After trying new cables, checking the grounds etc. as well as doing a bunch of search on Mud, I came to the conclusion that at least part of the problem was old, quarter of a century wiring from the ingnition to the starter.

The solution was to install a $10 relay. This way the starter solenoid gets full juice. Solved the issue immediately & it never reappeared.

Here are the only pics I have. Easy install with a regular 4 pin relay that you can get at any parts store.

 

[morganism]

Had same probs with a 60. All solved by cleaning grounds on the ignitor and coil. Dont kno if you have seperate coil packs, but if you have coil and ignitor, they are the major ground for the entire run system.

Hard start, slow starter - SOLVED Ignitor/Coil grounding

Starter relay

hard to start, randomly dies

 

[matmattmatthew]

Thanks guys, I read through those couple threads. The thing that really stumped me was that after the new battery the truck won't start at all, not even with a jump. I'll check all my grounds this weekend.

 

[matmattmatthew]

When I had my 62 I had the same starting issues, click, click click. After trying new cables, checking the grounds etc. as well as doing a bunch of search on Mud, I came to the conclusion that at least part of the problem was old, quarter of a century wiring from the ingnition to the starter.

The solution was to install a $10 relay. This way the starter solenoid gets full juice. Solved the issue immediately & it never reappeared.

Here are the only pics I have. Easy install with a regular 4 pin relay that you can get at any parts store.

View attachment 1727105

View attachment 1727106

Is it just better to replace the ignition wire? Or is adding the relay just easier?

 

[php74]

When you tried to jump with the new battery in were you jumping with another vehicle or another battery/jumper?

 

[matmattmatthew]

When you tried to jump with the new battery in were you jumping with another vehicle or another battery/jumper?

My wife's car with the motor running, tried 3-4 times then gave up. Tried one of those little jumper packs a couple days later and still wouldn't start.

 

[php74]

Try putting a jumper cable from you neg battery terminal to your block or frame, leave that on, then try to jump it with a second set of cables.

 

[php74]

Gotcha. Man...tricky

 

[89BIGBLUE]

Fusable links ok?

 

[matmattmatthew]

Fusable links ok?

Well, some of the wiring has been pretty bastardized by previous owners. I don't see a fusible link that goes to the starter. There are a few aftermarket fusible links but they are all going to accessories and one goes to the electric fan.

 

[John McVicker]

Is it just better to replace the ignition wire? Or is adding the relay just easier?

 

[John McVicker]

The relay is not difficult, however right now it sounds more like a bad ground or at least a bad connection 'somewhere'. I'd verify that all of your grounds are good, solid and clean. I'd also check that you have 12v when you turn the key to the small wire that goes to the starter solenoid. With a new & properly charged battery you now should be at least hearing clicks.

Do one repair at a time and then see if it either starts or clickes. One at a time and only then move to the next possible solution.

 

[89BIGBLUE]

Well, some of the wiring has been pretty bastardized by previous owners. I don't see a fusible link that goes to the starter. There are a few aftermarket fusible links but they are all going to accessories and one goes to the electric fan.

Gotcha.
There’s a bundle at the battery terminals. I figured that if all you did was change battery and some jumping, it might be worth looking at them there. HTH.

 

[matmattmatthew]

Well the mystery continues... I took all the grounds off and cleaned them. I used some sand paper to scuff up the mounting areas and the terminals. I tried to start the truck with the jumper pack and now I get nothing at all, not even a click from the starter solenoid.

 

[John McVicker]

Is the small gauge wire connected to the starter solenoid and or is there a break in that wire.

You haven't answered whether or not you have 12v to that wire when you turn the key to 'start'. If no 12v to that wire you won't get a click or any attempt to turn the starter.

 

[matmattmatthew]

Is the small gauge wire connected to the starter solenoid and or is there a break in that wire.

You haven't answered whether or not you have 12v to that wire when you turn the key to 'start'. If no 12v to that wire you won't get a click or any attempt to turn the starter.

I have a 10 month old so I'm only able to work on the truck in 15-20 minute bursts. Am I checking 12v on the wire that comes straight off the battery to the starter? Or the ignition wire?

 

[g-man]

power goes from battery through one of 4 fusable links then to ignition switch. This should be hot always. With the 12v test light clipped to ground probe the hot wire at the back of the ignition. You'll have to pull the steering wheel to get to the ignition switch. Back of ignition switch should have 3 posts last one with the key turned all the way is the post that sends current to the starter. So with the key turned all the way probe the last post/wire for current. Next if you have current there...go to the starter and with a helper turning the key probe the same wire that goes to the starter at the starter/solenoid. Next check the (heavy) wire goes from battery to starter. Make sure the ground strap that goes from starter to frame is cleaned. It shouldn't matter if you coil or ignitor are working or have bad grounds etc at this point you are just trying to get the starter motor to turn.

 

[John McVicker]

I have a 10 month old so I'm only able to work on the truck in 15-20 minute bursts. Am I checking 12v on the wire that comes straight off the battery to the starter? Or the ignition wire?

The small maybe 16g BW wire in g-man's picture. Have someone turn the key to start, you should have 12v. If not try to determine why not by following g-man's post. Should tell you what you need to know.