Green coolant vs. Red coolant (3 Viewers)

[RavenTai]

I have read many threads and still have not seen a real reason not to use Toyota Red,

Spoke about what I know of the chemistry of Toyota red earlier in this thread, The 2 inhibitors that are in Toyota red are Sebacate and phosphates,

Phosphates are a short term corrosion inhibitor. Does not work well with minerals and in acidic environments but use distilled water and change out regularly no problem, phosphates are an ingredient in classic American green and in older Japanese coolants also.

Sebacate is a newer long tem OAT inhibitor, it is what makes the coolant "long life", and so far I have not been able to find anything wrong with this as long as it is used with a short term inhibitor (see above)

The OAT inhibitor that causes so many problems 2-ethylhexanoic acid, is not present in Toyota red, it is used in Dexcool, it has a tendency to soften and "plasticize" seals Dexcool also does not contain a shot term inhibitor, protection after initial fill or if the level gets low becuase your seals were softened and leaked takes thousands of miles to reform leading to corrosion problems.

Gumby the Baldwin filter link you posted appears to be more about Supplemental coolant additives that are used in diesels to prevent wet sleeve cavitation,

I posted this link earlier in this thread but will post it again as it is a dam good read.

http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/082004_04.html

 

[Hayes]

...so the IH8MUD consensus on Red vs. Green coolant is...

Whatever.

1. Don't use Dexcool or other "Long Life varieties."
2. Don't mix different coolants.
3. Flush every year.

I had green in mine when I did my first flush this summer. I flushed thoroughly (5 minutes with hose and engine running through block, radiator and heater, filled with distilled, drained again).

I refilled with green because I had reached these same conclusions (above) after searching through previous MUD posts, and it's cheaper.

I feel good about my green.


Go Team Green.

Hayes

 

[Rich]

Today's Prestone is not the same as last years. Who know's how it will turn out.

 

[RavenTai]

...so the IH8MUD consensus on Red vs. Green coolant is...

Whatever.

1. Don't use Dexcool [snip]
2. Don't mix different coolants.
3. Flush every one or two years.

[snip] filled with distilled [/snip]

sounds good,

 

[Beowulf]

...so the IH8MUD consensus on Red vs. Green coolant is...

3. Flush every one or two years.

I would not agree with the two years part of that statement. Flush and fill with a premium coolant every year regardless of mileage.

-B-

 

[Hayes]

OK.
Strong advice.
Consensus swayed.
Post edited.

Hayes

 

[powderpig]

Some of the old threads are still archived I believe Rookie. I had two trucks that I had rebuilt with in a few months apart. One I filled with red and the other green. The one that I filled with red was a hot tanked block, the one with green was a cleand block(no hot tank). Both radiators were sent out and clean by a rad shop. back flushed both heater cores. The one that devoloped the most sediment on the top of the radiator was the red. I had more particulates that settled in the red, I flushed both soon after the rebuilds to get any crap out and the red had mor deposits. Any how over the course of a couple of years the same held up, more deposits in the truck with the red coolant. Any how I only have one truck to day and it has green. I also like silicates in the coolant, It absorbs more heat, Lx extreme uses water weter by Redline. Well it is mostly silicates to prevent micro boiling on the surface of the cylinder wall.
Any how a saab shop that I get information from time to time, uses mecedes Benz coolant in his customers cars and reports great results on not haveing saab HG blow. It has silicates in it. He has some interesting stories about some of his customers and how he only uses that coolant any more. Any he hardly does HG any more on saabs.
Any how use what makes you happy, jsut do not mix. Flush really well at least every other year, if not each year.
Yep it is now hard to find prestone green, they have gone to this world type that is supose to mix with anything. That just sounds scary to me. i will let some others try it and then read real world reports on how it works to see If I want to put in to my truck.
Zerex makes a product that meets mercedes spec, but also ford and chrysler. it is a pale yellow, not bright, similar to the Merecedes coolant.
One other thing about Long life from the memory banks (rather gates data site stored in my MB), is that long life coolant works best in a totally closed system, If closed no extra oxygen to act as a catalist to break the coolant down. Toyota system is not a closed system. Draw your own conclusions on that. later robbie

 

[IdahoDoug]

I was in an import part store (remember them - we still have one here) and they had a special blue european brand (started with P) that was outrageously expensive.

They also had the German high end hose clamps that are a gear drive with no slits all the way through the band, knurling on the hose side of the band and a couple other details. I bought out there entire stock of the 80 heater hose sizes.

Overall, the most crucial aspect of coolant maintenance is to change it often and flush well.

DougM

 

[FirstToy]

I have read this and archived threads. Suffice to say I'm totally confused. I think what they say about ignorance being bliss is true, hehe.

(honestly i do appreciate the wealth of info.. but read it and you feel totally paralyzed)

 

[Hayes]

Here's a question:

What about "cooling system cleaners" designed to remove any accumulated sludge and scaling?

http://www.prestone.com/products/whereToBuy.php?product=cst

I suspect that the verdict here will be not to use them.
Thoughts, opinions, knowlege?

Hayes

 

[powderpig]

Yes there is a wealth of information, but it really comes down to use what you want, do not mix coolants, flush/fill at least every other year if not every year. That really can not be that mind numbin. You jsut have to remember there is more than one way to skin a cat. later robbie

 

[locrwln1]

Here is how Toyota describes their red coolant:

"Genuine Toyota Long Life Antifreeze Coolant, with its distinctive red appearance, provides maximum protection without the use of harmful silicates. This formula is extremely durable and because of its compatibility with non-metallic materials, it helps extend the life of water pump seals.

Will not clog radiators from silicone "gelling."
Will not corrode aluminum surfaces like coolants that contain borate.
Helps protect water pump seals. "

Nuff said.

Not to be a poopy head, but if this stuff is considered "Long Life", why is everyone doing a full flush/replacement "every other year"? I mean come on I looked at a lot of high mileage (over 150k miles) 80's and I guarantee they were lucky if any of them ever had the coolant flushed/changed. And they seem to be doing fine. Are we being just a little bit OC with this stuff? Now having said that, the LX I bought has Toyota red in it and I will continue to use it, but flushing/changing the coolant is not going to be part of my "routine" maintence. I don't see the point. I just don't put that many miles on mine. I've owned it for over a month and maybe have 800 miles.

 

[tarbe]

I don't see the point. I just don't put that many miles on mine. I've owned it for over a month and maybe have 800 miles.

It's not just the miles, it's the time. Same deal with oil. Oxygen has a way of wrecking stuff! Look at all of us

 

[Rookie2]

I mean come on I looked at a lot of high mileage (over 150k miles) 80's and I guarantee they were lucky if any of them ever had the coolant flushed/changed. And they seem to be doing fine. Are we being just a little bit OC with this stuff? Now having said that, the LX I bought has Toyota red in it and I will continue to use it, but flushing/changing the coolant is not going to be part of my "routine" maintence. I don't see the point. I just don't put that many miles on mine. I've owned it for over a month and maybe have 800 miles.

Apparently you're new, so I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check out the blown head gasket thread. Close to 1 in every 5 surveyed have had to have their head gasket replaced. It's no secret that overheating is a main contributor to this, so it is the opinion of a lot of knowlegable people on this board that maintaining the cooling system in top running order is imparative in order to try and avoid this expensive repair. It costs less than $20 to do a flush and fill. Depending on the level of damage, HG replacement is going to run you 3 to 4K. If you don't see the point, then you ain't looking.


Rookie2

 

[Darwood]

Some of the old threads are still archived I believe Rookie. I had two trucks that I had rebuilt with in a few months apart. One I filled with red and the other green. The one that I filled with red was a hot tanked block, the one with green was a cleand block(no hot tank). Both radiators were sent out and clean by a rad shop. back flushed both heater cores. The one that devoloped the most sediment on the top of the radiator was the red. I had more particulates that settled in the red, I flushed both soon after the rebuilds to get any crap out and the red had mor deposits. Any how over the course of a couple of years the same held up, more deposits in the truck with the red coolant. Any how I only have one truck to day and it has green...

Robbie, out of curiosity, was distilled water used in both applications?

 

[Beowulf]

Are we being just a little bit OC with this stuff? ... but flushing/changing the coolant is not going to be part of my "routine" maintence. I don't see the point.

There is a link between HG failure and cooling system maintenance. It's not a direct "one-to-one" link, but many trucks with failed HG had experienced an overheat. Not all, but many. Those overheats were caused by a variety of issues; broken belts, radiator sludge, PHH failure, thermostat, fan clutch, etc.

IMHO, to keep the cooling system in top condition you should be proactive on replacing those things in the cooling system that you have control over. Make sure the PHH and other hoses are not leaking. If the radiator has sludge then get it rodded or replaced. Make sure you have fresh coolant (corrosion inhibitors,) replace the radiator cap, thermostat, and fan clutch before they fail. Or you can do as you please and read the HG threads every spring and summer. (And now we're getting these threads in the fall and winter!!!)

I am strongly leaning toward including the HG replacement as another cooling system PM. I haven't done my yet (157k) but Landtank makes some compelling arguments for replacing it as PM. It would suck to have it fail on a long summer trip and be faced with huge expenses related to being a long way from my own tools and garage.

-B-

 

[tech_dog]

I always figure...

When in doubt, go with the recommendations of the mechanical engineers, materials engineers, chemicle engineers, etc, who designed, built, and tested the vehicle. Toyota knows more about vehicle reliability than anyone else, so I like to take their advice.

 

[locrwln1]

Apparently you're new, so I'm going to throw you a bone here. Check out the blown head gasket thread. Close to 1 in every 5 surveyed have had to have their head gasket replaced. It's no secret that overheating is a main contributor to this, so it is the opinion of a lot of knowlegable people on this board that maintaining the cooling system in top running order is imparative in order to try and avoid this expensive repair. It costs less than $20 to do a flush and fill. Depending on the level of damage, HG replacement is going to run you 3 to 4K. If you don't see the point, then you ain't looking.


Rookie2

While my posts and registration show me as a noobie, it's not necessarily so. I registered and have been looking at this web site for over two years. My first name got deleted somehow and I had to reregister.

No offense, but Idahodoug has to be the most OC maintence guy here and his meticulously maintained 93 blew the HG. So I'm more of the opinion that the HG thing is a crap shoot. And until someone can prove different, I'll continue to think so. I used to own an '88 4Runner with the 3.0, now there is the HG king. Never changed the coolant and had no problems. Also if this 15-16 dollar a gallon Toyota red that Toyota labels as "Long Life" isn't, then what is the point? I just really find it hard to believe that the cooling system on these trucks were...let's say "designed" or "require" a yearly coolant flush/refill. If that is the case then the whole Toyota overengineering/durability issue becomes suspect don't you think? Now, do I run the risk of blowing a HG? You bet I do just like everyone else, but I've got more important things to do than do a yearly coolant flush. I guess I'll drive mine and deal with the inevitable when/if it happens.

 

[Beowulf]

I've got more important things to do than do a yearly coolant flush. I guess I'll drive mine and deal with the inevitable when/if it happens.

Well, at least get Doug's HG DVD before he is out of stock.

-B-

 

[locrwln1]

Well, at least get Doug's HG DVD before he is out of stock.

-B-

What's to guarantee that you won't need it? It didn't work for Doug.