Green coolant vs. Red coolant (1 Viewer)

[Beowulf]

What's to guarantee that you won't need it?

I was first in line to buy one and have watched it twice. Ask nicely, and I might let you borrow it this summer. It does get hot in Nevada in the summer doesn't it?



-B-

 

[Rookie2]

No offense, but Idahodoug has to be the most OC maintence guy here and his meticulously maintained 93 blew the HG. So I'm more of the opinion that the HG thing is a crap shoot. And until someone can prove different, I'll continue to think so. I used to own an '88 4Runner with the 3.0, now there is the HG king. Never changed the coolant and had no problems. Also if this 15-16 dollar a gallon Toyota red that Toyota labels as "Long Life" isn't, then what is the point? I just really find it hard to believe that the cooling system on these trucks were...let's say "designed" or "require" a yearly coolant flush/refill. If that is the case then the whole Toyota overengineering/durability issue becomes suspect don't you think? Now, do I run the risk of blowing a HG? You bet I do just like everyone else, but I've got more important things to do than do a yearly coolant flush. I guess I'll drive mine and deal with the inevitable when/if it happens.

You could never smoke a cigarette in your life and still die of lung cancer, but that's doesn't mean you just go out and start smoking two packs a day (for those that need help in this analogy, not smoking cigarettes equates to doing annual flushes and still having HG failure, smoking two packs equates to not flushing with the rationale that the HG failure could happen either way... make since now ? ). Bottom line, there's no guarantees in any of this, you take the information you have and make the decision you think is right. Maybe it's overkill, or maybe some of us just don't have a life and like to work on the rig from time-to-time. But after doing the temp guage mode, it appears my coolant system is in good working order, so I'm not going to change anything I'm doing in this regard.

Here's to you and yours,

Rookie2

 

[Hayes]

Whoa. Wait a second here.

I thought we did all this obsessive-compulsive maintenance because it was fun and made us feel warm and fuzzy.

I never actually thought it was doing anything for my 80.

Hayes

 

[Digger276]

The last time I went into NAPA they had a chart of vehicle manufactors and year ranges and what type of antifreeze to use and that it what I got, but I bought a poorly maintained 91 and have put a water filter on to help clean it up. i have flushed and flushed and still have some slug in the heater cores. I used the green adn I will have to see if it had silicates or not.
Clean often and you should be alright.

 

[OGBeno]

You could never smoke a cigarette in your life and still die of lung cancer, but that's doesn't mean you just go out and start smoking two packs a day (for those that need help in this analogy, not smoking cigarettes equates to doing annual flushes and still having HG failure, smoking two packs equates to not flushing with the rationale that the HG failure could happen either way... make since now ? ). Bottom line, there's no guarantees in any of this, you take the information you have and make the decision you think is right. Maybe it's overkill, or maybe some of us just don't have a life and like to work on the rig from time-to-time. But after doing the temp guage mode, it appears my coolant system is in good working order, so I'm not going to change anything I'm doing in this regard.

Here's to you and yours,

Rookie2

Hey Rook....

I smoke about two packs a day and am getting ready to run the Cleveland Marathon....should I flush my system??



Sorry, just had to do it....

I use red, flush it out every year right before summer. No worries. $30 a year better than $3K or so.

Later.
-o-

 

[Gumby]

Not to be a poopy head, but if this stuff is considered "Long Life", why is everyone doing a full flush/replacement "every other year"? I mean come on I looked at a lot of high mileage (over 150k miles) 80's and I guarantee they were lucky if any of them ever had the coolant flushed/changed. And they seem to be doing fine. Are we being just a little bit OC with this stuff? Now having said that, the LX I bought has Toyota red in it and I will continue to use it, but flushing/changing the coolant is not going to be part of my "routine" maintence. I don't see the point. I just don't put that many miles on mine. I've owned it for over a month and maybe have 800 miles.

Toyota engineers, like GMs and pretty much everybody else have been given the directive to keep the vehicles maintenance free for as long as possible. They have done that with the new coolants.

The new coolants are better for the system if you never change it than the old ones, but are they better IF you do regular maintenance? i don't think so.

I have also looked at a LOT of 80s with high mileage and what looks like the origional coolant in there. I always recommend a flush and I always find a ton of grey crap in there. Look at any 80 that you know has 100,000 on the coolant and the overflow will have a thick layer of grey crud in the bottom. I think it's safe to assume it's also in the radiator and in the block.

It's your truck and you can treat it any way you want. There are a lot of advantages to an aluminum head and a cast block, and there are a lot of advantages to running an I-6. The biggest disadvantage is the head gasket and that can be directly affected by cooling system maintenance.

 

[locrwln1]

Toyota engineers, like GMs and pretty much everybody else have been given the directive to keep the vehicles maintenance free for as long as possible. They have done that with the new coolants.

The new coolants are better for the system if you never change it than the old ones, but are they better IF you do regular maintenance? i don't think so.

I have also looked at a LOT of 80s with high mileage and what looks like the origional coolant in there. I always recommend a flush and I always find a ton of grey crap in there. Look at any 80 that you know has 100,000 on the coolant and the overflow will have a thick layer of grey crud in the bottom. I think it's safe to assume it's also in the radiator and in the block.

It's your truck and you can treat it any way you want. There are a lot of advantages to an aluminum head and a cast block, and there are a lot of advantages to running an I-6. The biggest disadvantage is the head gasket and that can be directly affected by cooling system maintenance.

Well mine has a fresh flush (PO) and new radiator cap. The overflow and radiator look great. My point that no one has addressed is that if you are having overheating problems, changing the coolant with every oil change is just "bandaiding" the problem. My primary concern would be the mechanical side of things, such as the radiator, cap and clutch fan.

I know everyone likes to talk about how the aluminum head/cast block is the culprit. I call BS. Jaguar has used this configuration since the '40's and blowing headgaskets was never a problem with the 3.8 or 4.2 liter motors. These are inline sixes dual overhead chain driven cam motors, sound familiar? This motor was used, and I do mean the block design, the head design was tweaked throughout the years, from the 40's to the 80's. These motors were used for everything from racing LeMans to powering 4500lb+ XJ sedans. They used regular old prestone green or similar coolants. So if the Brits got it right in the 40's, how did Toyota screw it up?

My LX has 98k miles on it. I plan to change the fan clutch, because I was told that they "lose" approximately 100 rpms a year after a few years. So if the fan is not turning under power when needed, then I could see these motors overheating. But again this motor is used all over the world and I find it hard to believe that the owners in other parts of the world are changing their coolant every year to every other year. I'm not saying never change it, but I would say sticking with Toyota's recommendation for changing the coolant seems to be pretty reasonable.

My other point is that if regular old Prestone and similar coolants are good for 50k, why would Toyota label theirs as "Long Life" and then require you to change it every 20-30K?

 

[Rookie2]

I smoke about two packs a day and am getting ready to run the Cleveland Marathon....should I flush my system??

I'd say if you're preparing for a marathon, you're flushing it pretty good. Although I'd be surprised if cutting back on the cigs hasn't crossed your mind once or twice.

Been keeping up with the engine swap thread you're involved in. Looks like some great experience..

 

[locrwln1]

Come awn, you didn't give up that quick did you?

 

[Gumby]

My other point is that if regular old Prestone and similar coolants are good for 50k, why would Toyota label theirs as "Long Life" and then require you to change it every 20-30K?

Toyota doesn't want you to change it every 20K. They say it can go 75K, IIRC.

We are saying that's not a good idea.

I am saying the green stuff is better IF you do regular maintenance. JMHO Perhaps the red is better if you don't.

Kinda like a sealed TRE is better if you never lube your vehicle, but a greasable one is better if you keep up the maintenance.


And I never met a Jag engine that had gone that long without having the head off of it.

 

[locrwln1]

Toyota doesn't want you to change it every 20K. They say it can go 75K, IIRC.

We are saying that's not a good idea.


And I never met a Jag engine that had gone that long without having the head off of it.

Response to first statement, Why? specifically.

While not exactly known at the most reliable cars, the motors themselves were pretty solid for their day. The famous Lucas electrical is something else altogether. So while they may not be 200k+ motors, they do last as long as the HG replacing motors we are seeing here. And it is usually the rings/lower end that goes, not the HG.

 

[Gumby]

Why specifically should you change it more often?

Because I personally believe that leaving the Red in for 75,000+ miles leads to HG failure and grey crud build up.

Why specifically am I not impressed with 70s and 80s era Jag reliability?

Just personal experience and anectdotal evedence.

 

[locrwln1]

My specifically statement was related to why the need to change a "long life" coolant, or any coolant, so often. And what exactly is it about "these" motors that "wears" or degrades the coolant? My point is again, by changing the coolant so often are you just "fixing" a symptom or are you fixing the problem?

No arguements on the overal reliability of a Jag. They seem to have a three year life in that era. Then either sell it or have a good mechanic.

 

[Tools R Us]

Jaguar has used this configuration since the '40's and blowing headgaskets was never a problem with the 3.8 or 4.2 liter motors. These are inline sixes dual overhead chain driven cam motors, sound familiar? This motor was used, and I do mean the block design, the head design was tweaked throughout the years, from the 40's to the 80's. These motors were used for everything from racing LeMans to powering 4500lb+ XJ sedans. They used regular old prestone green or similar coolants. So if the Brits got it right in the 40's, how did Toyota screw it up?

I call BS. When was it that the Brits learned to seal a motor? I never got that memo? I always thought the motor/drivetrain seeps, leaks, oil/coolant slicks were a feature on them!

My brother was a Jaguar, British car tech for years and I worked on way to many of them POS. Most had stud and nut setup holding the head on and some models one row is straight and the other is angled. To remove the head, the nuts are removed, the studs have a screwdriver slot in them, just unscrew them, not, the headgaskets would seep and coolant would fill the stud bores corroding the studs to the head and block! Removing them included, beating them with a hammer, heating with a torch, injecting acid around them and some or most would come out. If we couldn't get them all out we had a jig the bolted to the head, we hooked it to the engine hoist and picked up the whole front end car by the head and went home! When we came in the next morning the car would be on the ground and the head hanging on the hoist, or it was back to more beating, heating, repeat!

IMHO British junk is one of the few that could be improved by Ford ownership!;p

 

[locrwln1]

I call BS. When was it that the Brits learned to seal a motor? I never got that memo? I always thought the motor/drivetrain seeps, leaks, oil/coolant slicks were a feature on them!

My brother was a Jaguar, British car tech for years and I worked on way to many of them POS. Most had stud and nut setup holding the head on and some models one row is straight and the other is angled. To remove the head, the nuts are removed, the studs have a screwdriver slot in them, just unscrew them, not, the headgaskets would seep and coolant would fill the stud bores corroding the studs to the head and block! Removing them included, beating them with a hammer, heating with a torch, injecting acid around them and some or most would come out. If we couldn't get them all out we had a jig the bolted to the head, we hooked it to the engine hoist and picked up the whole front end car by the head and went home! When we came in the next morning the car would be on the ground and the head hanging on the hoist, or it was back to more beating, heating, repeat!

IMHO British junk is one of the few that could be improved by Ford ownership!;p

Never said anything about them sealing the oil, that was for rustproofing right

I've only heard/seen one head that required that much work to remove. Could only lift the head about three inches. Tried the jig thing and it still wouldn't work. Finally had to take a sawsall to head bolts, trash the head and replace the bolts to get it back together. But again, blowing head gaskets was not a prevalant problem. Can't say too much about the rest of the car.

Still doesn't answer why the 4.5l motor is so hard on coolant, according to everyone here.

 

[Tools R Us]

Never said anything about them sealing the oil, that was for rustproofing right

I've only heard/seen one head that required that much work to remove. Could only lift the head about three inches. Tried the jig thing and it still wouldn't work. Finally had to take a sawsall to head bolts, trash the head and replace the bolts to get it back together. But again, blowing head gaskets was not a prevalant problem. Can't say too much about the rest of the car.

Still doesn't answer why the 4.5l motor is so hard on coolant, according to everyone here.

Probably didn't too many that were that bad, but once you do a few it leaves a big scar in your memory, reminding you of why you don't want to play with that junk again! That junk was "designed" to run in cold wet London and the ones I worked on were operated in 120F Phoenix heat with the A/C on.

I don't think that 4.5l is any harder on coolant than any other motor, just that some here prefer perfect PM.

 

[powderpig]

You could go back and explore some of the old posts. I personally do not have to convince any one of the value of the flushing. Not really worth my time. It really is your choice. I have stated my preference and my reccommendations. One quick thought is that alot of toyota's other engines have gone to MLS about the time that the red coolant came out. I have serviced a few of these and have not seen the type of green/grey mixture in the overflow tank. Where the 1fz has a habit of leaving deposits in the overflow tank(and the radiator), expecially with older fluid. I believe that the red coolant was really designed for the MLS gaskets. Toyota want to stream line products, to match the market. The 1fz does not have that. I see a bunch of coolant creep with the 1fz gaskets, I bet I could point out some on just about every 1fz engine. I really do not think the coolant is the best for the materials of the 1fz engine's HG. Before the guys with the 3fe chime in, I would bet that most with the orginal gasket has some creep as well. The red does not do well with the older hoses as well. As I stated above, I do believe that the red does better with new systems. Good luck with your choices.
I used distilled water with both engines, mixing to aprox 60/40. I have found this to be a good mixture for me.
later robbie

 

[gotmud]

Here are some pics of my oil cooler cover after the PO used Dexcool "Long Life". You can see how the aluminum cover has corroded. Perhaps this is yet another reason to use "Toyota Red"

 

[Jacques Villeneuve]

Was at Toyota shop yesterday and saw two different Toyota Red antifreeze selections:

Toyota Long Life and
Toyota Extra Long Life.

Question:

What is the difference ?

Thanks.

 

[aey_bee_see]

Was at Toyota shop yesterday and saw two different Toyota Red antifreeze selections:

Toyota Long Life and
Toyota Extra Long Life.

Question:

What is the difference ?

I believe that Long Life is the Toyota Red referred to in threads like this. Extra is pinkish in concentration. Other than color, I don't know anything else what's different, others should be able to tell more.