Drivetrain issue at 75mph on I-89 tonight in NH (1 Viewer)

[1world1love]

I really appreciate all the comments on my situation. On my way back to Boston this morning, I stopped by White River Toyota to take some pictures of the underbody. I could not spend much time at White River Toyota as I had to get my 2nd-grader back to school. It does not sound like they see many Landcruisers at that dealership as the service greeter said they see "1 or 2 Landcruisers or Sequoias each month". Part of the reason I go to Wellesley Toyota for service is that they see a lot of Landcruisers. To get the car closer to me to better manage the repair, I asked about a tow and the first company said it'd cost $825. The White River's tech writing off this incident due to age makes me suspect of their ability to diagnose and repair problems.

On the one hand, I would be hesitant to trust the shop that it is at now, but taking it back to the shop that clearly neglected to put diff fluid in doesn't sound like a great idea either.

I agree with everybody above. I would, at this point, question everything that was done at the last service. Any fluids that were changed, you should have flushed and replaced before you drive it. Engine oil, front diff, transmission. Assume that whatever was used for each of these is wrong and needs to be replaced.

 

[pvchaitanya]

I really appreciate all the comments on my situation. On my way back to Boston this morning, I stopped by White River Toyota to take some pictures of the underbody. I could not spend much time at White River Toyota as I had to get my 2nd-grader back to school. It does not sound like they see many Landcruisers at that dealership as the service greeter said they see "1 or 2 Landcruisers or Sequoias each month". Part of the reason I go to Wellesley Toyota for service is that they see a lot of Landcruisers. To get the car closer to me to better manage the repair, I asked about a tow and the first company said it'd cost $825. The White River's tech writing off this incident due to age makes me suspect of their ability to diagnose and repair problems.

If you are not in a hurry, you can get car transportation companies to tow your truck from much less.
(not sure how much they charge for disabled vehicle), but I towed my car from florida to DC area for 800$ .

There are websites where you put in your zipcodes for tow and the drivers will get a chance to bid on such tows.
especially if you are on a highly travelled route like 95 etc, its much easier for someone to come pickup and drop it off.
(edited: be ready to get ton of calls and texts once you put your number for bidding.)

 

[bloc]

Realistically it is a cardinal sin to not fill fluid after drained, but it does happen.

I’m not excusing the dealer's responsibility here, especially with the potential for harm to your family, but as long as their other work has a record of being good then this could very well be a one-off mistake, as bad as it appears.

I’d ask the dealer what assurance they can give you that other drivetrain parts had the correct fluids used. Like explaining if their stuff comes off a shelf or from a drum. Have them double check fill levels. But I see no reason to demand them redo all of the work, even if they clearly were wrong on this specific step.

 

[pvchaitanya]

I really appreciate all the comments on my situation. On my way back to Boston this morning, I stopped by White River Toyota to take some pictures of the underbody. I could not spend much time at White River Toyota as I had to get my 2nd-grader back to school. It does not sound like they see many Landcruisers at that dealership as the service greeter said they see "1 or 2 Landcruisers or Sequoias each month". Part of the reason I go to Wellesley Toyota for service is that they see a lot of Landcruisers. To get the car closer to me to better manage the repair, I asked about a tow and the first company said it'd cost $825. The White River's tech writing off this incident due to age makes me suspect of their ability to diagnose and repair problems.

Also, once you resolve this issue, spray paint your differential area with some good rustoleum or wd-40 corrosion specialist. I know we get more rust due to salt but these sprays really make a difference.

 

[bloc]

There are websites where you put in your zipcodes for tow and the drivers will get a chance to bid on such tows.
especially if you are on a highly travelled route like 95 etc, its much easier for someone to come pickup and drop it off.

A word of caution about those sites.. entering your contact info will result in lots of random calls from all over the country for a few weeks afterward.

 

[1world1love]

Realistically it is a cardinal sin to not fill fluid after drained, but it does happen.

I’m not excusing the dealer's responsibility here, especially with the potential for harm to your family, but as long as their other work has a record of being good then this could very well be a one-off mistake, as bad as it appears.

I’d ask the dealer what assurance they can give you that other drivetrain parts had the correct fluids used. Like explaining if their stuff comes off a shelf or from a drum. Have them double check fill levels. But I see no reason to demand them redo all of the work, even if they clearly were wrong on this specific step.

My concern wouldn't be that they missed fluid in other places. It would be that they used the wrong fluid everywhere. It is possible that they added the wrong fluid to the rear diff rather than no fluid, but the end result would be the same. If they used the wrong drum/gun for the rear, they may have also used the wrong gun/drum for the front, or possibly even swapped engine oil for diff fluid. If that had happened, I would have expected worse things to happen at this point, but why risk it?

 

[grinchy]

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[tVille80]

Also, once you resolve this issue, spray paint your differential area with some good rustoleum or wd-40 corrosion specialist. I know we get more rust due to salt but these sprays really make a difference.

+1 to this!!!
Wire brush --> Rust-oleum rust reformer --> Fluid film or Blaster Surface Shield

 

[linuxgod]

Assuming for a moment the current shop says the rear diff had little to no fluid in it and will state on record that it appears to have not been filled (or been severely underfilled) and that being empty would likely have caused the issue you experienced... (big assumption I know)

Call the original dealer that you believe f*cked it up and ask them which they'd prefer - do they want to pay to have it towed back to their shop, or do they want you to deal with the repair yourself and then reimburse you. Be clear that the dealer you're at has taken it apart and will testify that the failure was due to being underfilled (or unfilled) and you will be seeking reimbursement either way. No sense in paying to tow it back to the original dealership if the manager is going to argue they didn't do it - at that point you'll need Toyota Corporate involved and/or a lawyer to get it fixed at their cost anyway - but if the original shop is honest (they know mistakes happen) they may be willing to pay for the tow and deal with the repair themselves rather than reimbursing someone else. Provided the work gets warrantied it should be fine.

Also, personally I'd call my auto insurance company and see if you have to fight this if they will help.

 

[bloc]

My concern wouldn't be that they missed fluid in other places. It would be that they used the wrong fluid everywhere. It is possible that they added the wrong fluid to the rear diff rather than no fluid, but the end result would be the same. If they used the wrong drum/gun for the rear, they may have also used the wrong gun/drum for the front, or possibly even swapped engine oil for diff fluid. If that had happened, I would have expected worse things to happen at this point, but why risk it?

The end result would be the same but the timeframe would be very different.

I don’t have any concrete data for this but my gut instinct is that incorrect fluid could go a lot further than a couple weeks in these diffs if not towing heavy.

Going that far with no fluid depending on use.. then finally crossing the threshold that @blackpaper knew something was wrong at highway speeds on a roadtrip.. yes.

My bet is this axle didn’t get filled like the other parts.

But yeah have them double check levels..

 

[Moby]

If you have to eat this, which you shouldn't, consider buying a used 3rd member. Have it inspected by a ring and pinion shop and slap it in. But again, you shouldn't have to go down this path.

 

[molanginaeda]

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the land cruiser. Total nightmare. Hope it all works out in your favor. How far is the tow you are looking at doing ? AAA platinum costs around $120 a year and you get one 200 mile tow included in the plan. Saved my hide plenty of times.

^^This. In NE, it's AAA premier membership. As a member, you get one tow up to 200 miles per year. From White River Junction VT to Wellesley MA is about 135 +/- miles. Just one tow worth the membership already.

 

[linuxgod]

The end result would be the same but the timeframe would be very different.

I don’t have any concrete data for this but my gut instinct is that incorrect fluid could go a lot further than a couple weeks in these diffs if not towing heavy.

Going that far with no fluid depending on use.. then finally crossing the threshold that @blackpaper knew something was wrong at highway speeds on a roadtrip.. yes.

My bet is this axle didn’t get filled like the other parts.

But yeah have them double check levels..

I suspect you are right and there's NFW I'm taking that bet Depending on the first few weeks of driving if the diff was able to cool off on relatively short trips it probably did limited damage, but once on the highway it got hot and couldn't sit and cool. I have the same gut instinct as you on the fluid, but I'd still demand someone check it because I'm always paranoid about misdiagnoses. I think it comes from managing I.T. where stuff goes wrong all the time and lazy techs (or vendors) will often look for the quickest way to be done with a problem (aka "answer") regardless of whether it's really correct.

 

[blackpaper]

I suspect you are right and there's NFW I'm taking that bet Depending on the first few weeks of driving if the diff was able to cool off on relatively short trips it probably did limited damage, but once on the highway it got hot and couldn't sit and cool. I have the same gut instinct as you on the fluid, but I'd still demand someone check it because I'm always paranoid about misdiagnoses. I think it comes from managing I.T. where stuff goes wrong all the time and lazy techs (or vendors) will often look for the quickest way to be done with a problem (aka "answer") regardless of whether it's really correct.

It sounds like the task the Toyota tech must complete to come to root cause is to check if there's fluid in the rear differential. If there is fluid, they might determine if it's the right kind. I don't think they bothered to do that yet. All they did was put the car on a lift and articulate the part manually as shown in the video. White River Toyota does not seem to be overly helpful, which is why I may be patient and get a cheap tow back to the Boston-area to have this looked at nearby my house. Especially since the cost of my Ford Explorer rental is minimal.

 

[linuxgod]

It sounds like the task the Toyota tech must complete to come to root cause is to check if there's fluid in the rear differential. If there is fluid, they might determine if it's the right kind. I don't think they bothered to do that yet. All they did was put the car on a lift and articulate the part manually as shown in the video. White River Toyota does not seem to be overly helpful, which is why I may be patient and get a cheap tow back to the Boston-area to have this looked at nearby my house. Especially since the cost of my Ford Explorer rental is minimal.

Gotcha. If that all they've done to diagnose, I'd completely agree. The skills required to properly diagnose and fix this are significantly higher than the skills required to do a basic diagnosis and swap parts. i.e. if the gears started shredding bits of metal when they overheated then someone needs to check the axle shafts for wear too. Could be more than just the pumpkin that needs replacing.

 

[Weedhopper]

If you ise AAA Platinum or whatever they call it there is a two day wait from when you sign up or upgrade until you can use it. Happened to me.

And you get a free battery ! Used that for my sister.

 

[blackpaper]

If you ise AAA Platinum or whatever they call it there is a two day wait from when you sign up or upgrade until you can use it. Happened to me.

And you get a free battery ! Used that for my sister.

I think it’s now 7 days. Regardless I signed up for it a couple hours ago.

 

[bloc]

@blackpaper I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet, but potentially could be a huge issue.

If that rear diff got bad enough that it was slipping, it may have been friction in your limited slip center diff driving the front axle to keep you going down the road. This could explain the sensation of the transmission slipping.

If that happened, your center diff is not at all designed for that and most likely damaged to some extent.

Now usually a differential needs to get really, REALLY screwed to not have gear engagement and fully slip, which to me makes this scenario unlikely. But it is something to be aware of.

It sounds like the task the Toyota tech must complete to come to root cause is to check if there's fluid in the rear differential. If there is fluid, they might determine if it's the right kind.

The problem with this strategy is the pinion seal wouldn't be able to deal with the amount of movement seen in the video, so if it had fluid in it it would have leaked out long ago. There almost certainly isn't anything substantial in there to check.

This is what led people to say there should be a mess under the vehicle. The lack of that could possibly be everything getting blasted by the snow, but it is more likely that there wasn't fluid in there to leak out and make a mess.

Either way, yes, getting it back to the original service location is a good idea. Yes, it will be empty. They may try to claim it just went bad. But that would be just impossible odds.. these things so rarely go bad even with four times the miles.. and coincidentally two weeks after a service where the fluid was changed? Whether it's the wrong fluid or more likely wasn't filled, they clearly played some role in this failure.

 

[blackpaper]

@blackpaper I just thought of something that hasn't been brought up yet, but potentially could be a huge issue.

If that rear diff got bad enough that it was slipping, it may have been friction in your limited slip center diff driving the front axle to keep you going down the road. This could explain the sensation of the transmission slipping.

If that happened, your center diff is not at all designed for that and most likely damaged to some extent.

Now usually a differential needs to get really, REALLY screwed to not have gear engagement and fully slip, which to me makes this scenario unlikely. But it is something to be aware of.


The problem with this strategy is the pinion seal wouldn't be able to deal with the amount of movement seen in the video, so if it had fluid in it it would have leaked out long ago. There almost certainly isn't anything substantial in there to check.

This is what led people to say there should be a mess under the vehicle. The lack of that could possibly be everything getting blasted by the snow, but it is more likely that there wasn't fluid in there to leak out and make a mess.

Either way, yes, getting it back to the original service location is a good idea. Yes, it will be empty. They may try to claim it just went bad. But that would be just impossible odds.. these things so rarely go bad even with four times the miles.. and coincidentally two weeks after a service where the fluid was changed? Whether it's the wrong fluid or more likely wasn't filled, they clearly played some role in this failure.

“This is what led people to say there should be a mess under the vehicle. The lack of that could possibly be everything getting blasted by the snow” … there was no snow or rain on Friday and Saturday to blast the grease / oil off the parts. That is, no chance the underbody accidentally got cleaned from Friday night til now.

 

[bloc]

“This is what led people to say there should be a mess under the vehicle. The lack of that could possibly be everything getting blasted by the snow” … there was no snow or rain on Friday and Saturday to blast the grease / oil off the parts. That is, no chance the underbody accidentally got cleaned from Friday night til now.

This would have been while you were driving on your roadtrip, and to be clear I'm not saying that's likely, just a remote possibility.

After seeing more pictures showing even the back of the axle housing clear of oil I'd consider that explanation even less likely.