FMC80
SILVER Star
Knocks on plastic with knuckle. States plastic is "harder". Sign me up!
YouTube Car Care Nut Gushing Review 100 & 200s - Should you buy a Toyota Land Cruiser? What makes it so good? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter onemudder
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There is definitely room in TPS for the “human factors” to play out in the quality of the final product.
Is it tangibly measurable? Doubt it beyond “my truck feels better than X”. Or long term usage studies in durability.
There is no way any Toyota dealership mechanic knows the differences between a 3UR manufactured at Tahara vs one manufactured at Toyota Engine Alabama.
Again, he’s going by his long term data points based on working on them… not manufacturing them.
bloc
SILVER Star
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
This is interesting specially the china bit. Is that real?
For a noob like me, im curious how localized nuance would manifest into material differences in the end product?
Specially in terms of fit and finish and mechanical durability.
I know that discrepancy between the individuals could be extreme to say the least, specially considering drug use and things like that.
Not to mention world renowned Japanese finesse. I can also guarantee that work culture is going to be night and day.
But how standardized is the process to be able to introduce any variability at all? Is this more about catching mistakes and QA?
My '17 LX has a few interior defects but i am extremely attentive to that sort of thing.
I would love to know if this has ever been an issue with the LC plants.
I always thought this model was strictly japan built.
For a noob like me, im curious how localized nuance would manifest into material differences in the end product?
Specially in terms of fit and finish and mechanical durability.
I know that discrepancy between the individuals could be extreme to say the least, specially considering drug use and things like that.
Not to mention world renowned Japanese finesse. I can also guarantee that work culture is going to be night and day.
But how standardized is the process to be able to introduce any variability at all? Is this more about catching mistakes and QA?
My '17 LX has a few interior defects but i am extremely attentive to that sort of thing.
I would love to know if this has ever been an issue with the LC plants.
I always thought this model was strictly japan built.
I’d disagree. They are different products with different specs but that is the only real world siffeeence. Ive spent plenty of time in US, Mexico, and Japan assembly plants and Toyota doesn’t lower standards based on locations. .
yep - I saw them going down the line in Changchun a few years ago. Along side Toyota vans and buses.
According to Wikipedia, manufacturing in China for China’s market ended in 2016. Because it is on Wikipedia, it must be true, LOL
”In China, the Land Cruiser 200 was produced from 2008 to 2016 by Sichuan FAW Toyota Motor. The 4.0 L 1GR-FE V6 and 4.7 L 2UZ-FEV8 were the available engine choices – both paired to a 5-speed automatic gearbox. Trim levels were the 4.0 GX-R, 4.0 VX, 4.7 VX and 4.7 VX-R.[57]”
”In China, the Land Cruiser 200 was produced from 2008 to 2016 by Sichuan FAW Toyota Motor. The 4.0 L 1GR-FE V6 and 4.7 L 2UZ-FEV8 were the available engine choices – both paired to a 5-speed automatic gearbox. Trim levels were the 4.0 GX-R, 4.0 VX, 4.7 VX and 4.7 VX-R.[57]”
| Overview | |
|---|---|
| Also called |
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| Production | September 2007 – March 2021[47] |
| Model years | 2008–2021 |
| Assembly |
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| Designer |
|
May be right on the date. I’m somewhat sure they were pre-face lift vehicles. Been a while.
Bludozer
SILVER Star
It’s important to keep the following in mind when discussing Toyota manufacturing and abstract terms like “quality”…
Toyota, globally, is fully 100% rationalized in terms of how they do the work of manufacturing vehicles. Every plant operates the same, every process is very much the same— whether you are at the Toyota Turkey plant, Toyota Kentucky, Toyota Tahara, Toyota Honsha, etc. They are all mirror images of each other. Highly automated, highly robotic, and highly vertically integrated.
Now, there are differences in kind when it comes to Toyota Group companies that are outsourced for assembly… Toyota Auto Body is a good example of this.
TAB was formerly ARACO which was formerly Arakawa Auto Body, etc. These wholly owned subsidiary manufacturers are what most industrial engineers call “black box” suppliers. They are black boxes because they operate fully and wholly on their own without any interference from the mothership (in this case, Toyota Motor Corporation).
TAB is involved in design, prototyping, testing, manufacturing testing, QDR analysis, part engineering, and all processes of vehicle manufacture with little to no assistance from TMC. Toyota has embedded engineers and project managers at these “black box” suppliers, but the actuality is that a product like the Land Cruiser is designed and “framed” by Toyota engineers and then handed over to TAB engineers to finish of the truck. Mainly, important to keep in mind, the LC is an evolutionary platform. Not a revolutionary platform. Hence all changes are incremental over time.
A supplier/assembler like TAB is considered a “mature supplier”— IE: all of their systems, QA/QC protocols, processes and internal structure are mirrors of their “mother”— TMC.
The only time TMC will get involved with a supplier like TAB is during new model introductions for manufacturing and new model release, or if there are quality issues that need TMC intervention in the Gemba. Otherwise, it’s very much hands off.
Toyota, globally, is fully 100% rationalized in terms of how they do the work of manufacturing vehicles. Every plant operates the same, every process is very much the same— whether you are at the Toyota Turkey plant, Toyota Kentucky, Toyota Tahara, Toyota Honsha, etc. They are all mirror images of each other. Highly automated, highly robotic, and highly vertically integrated.
Now, there are differences in kind when it comes to Toyota Group companies that are outsourced for assembly… Toyota Auto Body is a good example of this.
TAB was formerly ARACO which was formerly Arakawa Auto Body, etc. These wholly owned subsidiary manufacturers are what most industrial engineers call “black box” suppliers. They are black boxes because they operate fully and wholly on their own without any interference from the mothership (in this case, Toyota Motor Corporation).
TAB is involved in design, prototyping, testing, manufacturing testing, QDR analysis, part engineering, and all processes of vehicle manufacture with little to no assistance from TMC. Toyota has embedded engineers and project managers at these “black box” suppliers, but the actuality is that a product like the Land Cruiser is designed and “framed” by Toyota engineers and then handed over to TAB engineers to finish of the truck. Mainly, important to keep in mind, the LC is an evolutionary platform. Not a revolutionary platform. Hence all changes are incremental over time.
A supplier/assembler like TAB is considered a “mature supplier”— IE: all of their systems, QA/QC protocols, processes and internal structure are mirrors of their “mother”— TMC.
The only time TMC will get involved with a supplier like TAB is during new model introductions for manufacturing and new model release, or if there are quality issues that need TMC intervention in the Gemba. Otherwise, it’s very much hands off.
bloc
SILVER Star
Does the move toward TNGA impact any of this?
Absolutely. Actually makes things even easier for design and implementation in the long run.
Most of the car manufacturers now utilize homologated design and manufacturing systems. And many were implemented without any testing…. And became total nightmares.
Toyota has spent almost a decade developing the theoretical and functional foundations of the future TNGA manufacturing and design world. Slow and steady implementation will inherently allow for long term product quality and consistency…. All the whole maintaining shorter product design cycles and faster implementation of manufacturing changes (processes, tooling, transfer from one plant to another, etc.)
This goes against everything I’ve ever heard about the LC. Wow.
Thanks for laying it out.
Any cult vehicle has mythology wrapped around it; it’s story, so to speak.
But in the end, the LC is a mass production vehicle: 2 shifts per day, M-F, a vehicle coming out of final assembly every 90 seconds. So, there really (in the end) isn’t much that’s “special” about it.
Toyota marketing has done an incredible job of imbuing “stories” with their vehicles— especially legacy vehicles. The formula is old but it gets the job done— ergo, us sitting around and wasting immense amounts of mental energy discussing it!
bloc
SILVER Star
Is this specifically for production with regard to the 200 (and I guess every series).. or is the design/engineering/testing actually different than other toyota products?Any cult vehicle has mythology wrapped around it; it’s story, so to speak.
But in the end, the LC is a mass production vehicle: 2 shifts per day, M-F, a vehicle coming out of final assembly every 90 seconds. So, there really (in the end) isn’t much that’s “special” about it.
Toyota marketing has done an incredible job of imbuing “stories” with their vehicles— especially legacy vehicles. The formula is old but it gets the job done— ergo, us sitting around and wasting immense amounts of mental energy discussing it!
I’ve seen things myself like clearly more robust front shocks compared to a tundra..
The manufacturing timeframe explained above is pretty close to how it runs. Shifts can always be added and most manufacturing facilities run with OT factored into production and cost planning. This is true for any large scale production.
Are the processes different than any other vehicle Toyota manufactures? Fundamentally, no. It’s still some sort of mobility product that appears at the end of the assembly line with tasks to accomplish.
If you are asking about differentiations at the component and part level, then yes, the LC is composed of thousands of parts specific to its design goals.
But that’s the other end of the tape measure. Fundamentally, the LC is just another trinket that pops out of the Toyota belly.
FMC80
SILVER Star
After reading your last few posts, I'm certain I heard what sounded like a million bubbles popping around the world...I'm still in love though.
bloc
SILVER Star
A bloated Camry? (My phone capitalized that but I decided to leave it given its relation to my LandCruiser. Somehow I think that’s funny.)
Thanks again for your perspective.. the out of left field places these revealing discussions come from on this board… it’s great.
Longevity and quality are two factors that are becoming less and less important to the average Joe. We (as a people) are constantly being conditioned to always be buying the latest and greatest. And the speed of technological progress contributes to that conditioning.
These days, a 10 year old vehicle is significantly outdated on all aspects of technology, and people want the new stuff. Those that can afford to drop $100k on a new car are likely to want another $100k car in 3-5 years, and for that short ownership period, quality really doesn’t matter much. People will buy the option with newer tech, then replace it. The 20 year ownership idea won’t even cross their mind.
bloc
SILVER Star
And yet the LandCruiser at $90k recently still tops the list of length of original ownership.
To me that is evidence a significant chunk of the cruiser market are (actually were) wealthy people that are smart with their money. My old fire station territory being a wealthy but not flashy neighborhood with at least a couple dozen late model cruisers that I can think of in driveways is the other.. though anecdotal.
Bludozer
SILVER Star
I don't think we're necessarily "being conditioned" I think it is more ingrained within us culturally. Why would durability/longevity matter when most people want to own a vehicle for 2-3 years tops then get a new one? Many people laugh about "keeping up with the Joneses" type of behavior but it's really a much larger societal problem than it's given credit. Manufacturers are taking advantage no question, but really they're just playing to the desires of the masses in most regards.
