I’m just distracted with adventures and forget to buy new cars. Tends to take 15 years before i realize it.
YouTube Car Care Nut Gushing Review 100 & 200s - Should you buy a Toyota Land Cruiser? What makes it so good?
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Agreed.
However, I would factor in geography and climate to this statement. What make the LC special is the capability of being highly reliable in more extreme use vs the competition. Where I live, our hot, sandy weather, horrible roads, aggressive driving...etc. is considered an 'extreme' environment and cars generally last half as long as they do elsewhere.. This is why the Land Cruiser shines in the Middle East vs the competition, and why they command crazy high resale values despite increasing fuel prices..
People accept paying a premium for the LC despite it's lack of features and aging platform because it can survive this without flinching. It really is built like a tank, and has the amenities and price tag of a tank as well..
Otherwise, for anyone living in more temperate climates, or in developed cities, your statement is 100% true.
Yeah its a trend i see in a lot of areas for sure.
I do feel like we have hit a threshold at least within car technology that affords some more runway with the existing hardware.
If you can get carplay installed, hopefully all the future interaction will be sufficient through that software interface and its updates.
Disposable culture is a concern to me and a big part of me buying in.
That seems to be the case and is trickling inventory into the secondary markets steadily thus (sneakily) increasing the average cost of new vehicles.
It may be a matter of just unreliable product contributing to soft conditioning but also the technology leaps of recent times creating more pronounced and noticeable gap in the market offering. Given the average age of the US vehicle fleet increasing slowly now to a peak of 12 years, i do think this trend will begin to slow soon.
Specially considering the applicability of my reply to Woof above.
Yes, its true that that customer base is there, i see it myself and i think its true all over the states. The problem is its also true that they hold on to them.
Although this base is relatively strong, the length of ownership means they are purchasing once every 10-20 years.
While i think that speaks to both your points, it is also true they are a minor subset of the luxuruy SUV segment as a whole.
What i also think is oft not considered on this very topic is that in a state like TX for example, that niche is also being heavily filled by the sleeper lux fully loaded trucks.
It is (by my observation) much more prevalent around me than the suburbian LC hotbeds by number.
I know its not what anyone wants to hear but i don't think pulling the LC was all that bad of a move.
And that has a lot to do with it having to fill its global role as stated above.
It was IMO however unsuccessfully kind of in the right lane in the US and for that i dont think it was enough.
Phew!! Another tangent in a long conversation… I’ve been thinking about the future of the LC for many years now. Not emotionally either. Purely from the POV of global automotive trends at a structural level.
Just remember, I said this in 2011. I’ll just leave it here…
Just remember, I said this in 2011. I’ll just leave it here…
FMC80
SILVER Star
Understatement of the year but "nailed it". Did you buy Apple in July 1982 as well?
Beno,
While I see you are a moderator and you throw some perspective on the table around Toyota processes, I disagree with the point you are trying to make.
I work in a big company and so does my father. Electronics and Oil & Gas. In both cases we have many processes and procedures and things standardized. Every country is different though as people have different mentalities, interests, economic drivers and work ethics. It is by definition not possible to get the same quality product out of every facility around the world. You can try, but I would say can get 80/20 at best. It mostly depends how much you can automate.
A Toyota made in Japan will have most parts by suppliers made in Japan and is then assembled in a Japanese factory. While some is automated eliminating most errors, lots remains manual. The people involved therefore make a (big) difference. Unfortunately most Americans are just not interested in putting things together consistently, like people in most countries. Japanese mentality around this together with a few other Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan is different. It is a matter of pride and honor for them. The Germans get close, their weakness is part suppliers from other countries in Europe leading to mostly annoying failures in say secondary equipment and feautures, like a window motor going out or soft door closure mechanism failure.
In Japan people also do not tend to go home at a set time, as homes are often small and crowded and they prefer to spend some more time at work and socialize there. Therefore resolving issues taking more time is not an issue for them. On top an American or Mexican or European feeling honor in a Toyota product will only go so far.
In addition, the Land Cruiser and LX570 benefit from over design making them suitable to last on the world market in places like Africa, Middle East and Australian Outback and they have kept them pretty much the same while making everybody focus on quality. Probably the reason we never got Apple car play stuff.
In any case, I can see many reasons why a Toyota Land Cruiser or LX build in Japan would hold up longer and give fewer problems. Does not mean a Toyota Tundra build in Texas is not well designed (this was done in conjunction with the LC300 in Japan...) and nice and pretty good as well. Just not as good as one build in Japan. Unless they automate every part from start to finish, it will always be like that. Same why a Mercedes build in Alabama is not the same as one build in Sindelfingen, although both will have issues these days unfortunatley.
In any case, you know all this of course and tried to make Toyota's look all the same. They are not IMO and that is ok. The Land Cruiser certainly has a price tag which goes with it. I noticed there are Corolla's build in Japan and in Canada. Guess which one you should pick from the lot.
Thanks for this great forum by the way and hope we can agree to disagree.
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We’ll agree to disagree. But I appreciate your articulations.
There is nothing special about the Toyota Land Cruiser beyond the meanings and feelings we impart on it as an object… as a machine. Marketing does the rest.
To Toyota, it’s just another line item on a EBIT tally at the end of the fiscal year.
There is nothing special about the Toyota Land Cruiser beyond the meanings and feelings we impart on it as an object… as a machine. Marketing does the rest.
To Toyota, it’s just another line item on a EBIT tally at the end of the fiscal year.
As someone who's observed a few automotive plants, including Toyota's Takaoka, Motomachi, Tsutsumi Plants, this is 100% true.
You can study all you want about establishing processes, performing Gemba walks, encouraging Kaizens, and building in Poka-Yoke techniques to avoid mistakes but at the end of the day these concepts stem from Japanese ideals and mindsets. They just fit in more naturally to the Japanese worker and it *still* shows at the end product quality wise.
That being said, most of the American Toyotas seem far better designed in terms of features and looks IMO vs the Japanese Toyota products. My 4Runner looks way nicer than my brother's Prado both inside and out, and the LC300 (which looks and feels like a 2018 model vehicle at best) I test drove a few weeks back was border-line disappointing inside and out while the Tundra looks awesome in comparison.