Anyone swap rear springs? (5 Viewers)

[mcgaskins]

I bought my 200 with an OME heavy suspension already installed, and I definitely don't carry enough weight in the back for the OME 2723 spring rate. I have a light rear bumper, ARB drawers swapped in place of 3rd row seats, and a fridge. I rarely have more than 1 passenger, and the heavy springs are just overkill for nearly all situations. A local friend with a 200 had just the opposite problem and swapped his OME 2721 springs for heavier ones. We were going to do a straight swap and wrenching day, but I just learned he already swapped them out and is just giving me his old springs.

I have a couple free weekends for the first time in a long time, so I was considering doing the swap myself. Has anyone here swapped rear springs on their own? It's been a long time since I've done it, but the last time I did I basically just loosened the lower shock mount and brake lines, put spring compressors on the springs, and jacked up the frame until the spring came out of its perch. Granted that was on a very flexy 4 link suspension where it needed limiting straps, but I imagine it's similar for the 200. Do I have to do anything with the KDSS valves for this simple swap? Not planning on doing anything other that just changing the rear springs. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[TonyP]

I bought my 200 with an OME heavy suspension already installed, and I definitely don't carry enough weight in the back for the OME 2723 spring rate. I have a light rear bumper, ARB drawers swapped in place of 3rd row seats, and a fridge. I rarely have more than 1 passenger, and the heavy springs are just overkill for nearly all situations. A local friend with a 200 had just the opposite problem and swapped his OME 2721 springs for heavier ones. We were going to do a straight swap and wrenching day, but I just learned he already swapped them out and is just giving me his old springs.

I have a couple free weekends for the first time in a long time, so I was considering doing the swap myself. Has anyone here swapped rear springs on their own? It's been a long time since I've done it, but the last time I did I basically just loosened the lower shock mount and brake lines, put spring compressors on the springs, and jacked up the frame until the spring came out of its perch. Granted that was on a very flexy 4 link suspension where it needed limiting straps, but I imagine it's similar for the 200. Do I have to do anything with the KDSS valves for this simple swap? Not planning on doing anything other that just changing the rear springs. Any advice is appreciated.

Jack up the vehicle, support with jack stands on the frame, put a jack under the axle and slightly lift, unbolt the lower shock mounts, unbolt the sway bar (two bolts per side), pull out the diff breather, lower jack/axle, the springs should come right out. I didn't do anything with the brake lines, there's a bracket you could loosen but the lines weren't stretched/tweaked at all when I swapped my springs. I did already have my KDSS valves open so I'm not sure if cracking them is needed. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt getting the sway bar back on.

Skip to the rear spring part and this is mostly how I did it with a few slight variations.

 

[RS6tofj80]

I may have my 2722's avail after I get the Slee rear bumper done later this month..... about 10k on the set. I've also got a few extra sets of the 10mm OME rear spacers ( I like that they offer a bit of cushion to the perch)

E

 

[Willy beamin]

Yes on opening the three turns for the kdss when installing rear springs.

 

[mcgaskins]

Looks straight forward - thanks guys.

 

[Markuson]

2721 should be perfect for what you've got. I ran them with a similar load to yours... I just gave my 2721's to Dan Higgins a few weeks ago, or you could have had mine...

 

[TexAZ]

Were you getting any lift with the 2721s.
I think I chose 2722 purely based on OME website numbers.
I wouldn't mind a softer ride if I can keep the height.

 

[Markuson]

I got about 3" lift initially with 2721...settling to about 2" later with heavily loaded drawers, sliders and skids.

A 2722 was swapped on at my request at Slee, but Christo pointed out that it was actually lower than the 2721 and not progressive...so I quickly switched back to my 2721s on the spot.

 

[Tremek]

Interesting to know; I have 2722s on order, as I had assumed there would be more lift and reason to use them versus the 2721s now having the rear Slee bumper on the truck.

With that said I'm sure @Markuson is running far more weight in the rear of his truck - so to be clear (per your sig) are you now using 2724s, or 2721s?

 

[Markuson]

Interesting to know; I have 2722s on order, as I had assumed there would be more lift and reason to use them versus the 2721s now having the rear Slee bumper on the truck.

With that said I'm sure @Markuson is running far more weight in the rear of his truck - so to be clear (per your sig) are you now using 2724s, or 2721s?

I was referring to the past. I ran 2721's with VERY FULL drawers in back, Slee sliders and skids...plus a lot of gear. 2721's were great for that, and that sounds similar to what he's got--though mine was likely still heavier.

Several weeks ago after adding Slee rear bumper, a 100lb spare, Hi-Lift and 19 gallons of fuel to the rear, I'm on 2724's. My description of 2721's referred to Pre-Beast mode.

If you are adding Slee's rear bumper? No. I would not recommend 2721's. You might want to consider 2723's.

Here are the spring rates for the various OME springs:

Stock: 170
2721: 270/350
2722: 275
2723: 340
2724: 400
2725: 440

Remember that spring rate = the weight required to compress the spring one inch. The 2721 has two spring rates because it's a progressive spring where the others are constant load.

I believe the slee bumper is about 260lbs without fuel or a spare. So with a spare, you're going to be close to another 100lbs. With a jack and fuel? Easily into the 2723 range or higher. I'm on 2724's, but actually considered 2725's, and will consider them again when I truly load up my rig for our next heavy-gear trip...

Remember too that drawers make for far more centralized weight compared to a rear bumper that hangs in back of the springs, leading to even more leverage against them.

 

[TexAZ]

@Markuson , still have the 2721s????

 

[Markuson]

@Markuson , still have the 2721s????

No. I gave them to Dan Higgins. See my last post above.

 

[Tremek]

Thanks for all the feedback on the spring rates @Markuson. Given that the 2722s are on the way I'm going to give these a shot and make an estimation as to whether they're too soft for what we have going on. My 5 year old likes to ride in the 3rd row and I want to make sure we strike a good balance between wallowy versus rattling his baby teeth out prematurely.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks for all the feedback on the spring rates @Markuson. Given that the 2722s are on the way I'm going to give these a shot and make an estimation as to whether they're too soft for what we have going on. My 5 year old likes to ride in the 3rd row and I want to make sure we strike a good balance between wallowy versus rattling his baby teeth out prematurely.

Full disclosure: @Taco2Cruiser sent those rates to me when I was trying to decide between 23, 24 or 25's recently.

 

[HRTROB]

I was referring to the past. I ran 2721's with VERY FULL drawers in back, Slee sliders and skids...plus a lot of gear. 2721's were great for that, and that sounds similar to what he's got--though mine was likely still heavier.

Several weeks ago after adding Slee rear bumper, a 100lb spare, Hi-Lift and 19 gallons of fuel to the rear, I'm on 2724's. My description of 2721's referred to Pre-Beast mode.

If you are adding Slee's rear bumper? No. I would not recommend 2721's. You might want to consider 2723's.

Here are the spring rates for the various OME springs:

Stock: 170
2721: 270/350
2722: 275
2723: 340
2724: 400
2725: 440

Remember that spring rate = the weight required to compress the spring one inch. The 2721 has two spring rates because it's a progressive spring where the others are constant load.

I believe the slee bumper is about 260lbs without fuel or a spare. So with a spare, you're going to be close to another 100lbs. With a jack and fuel? Easily into the 2723 range or higher. I'm on 2724's, but actually considered 2725's, and will consider them again when I truly load up my rig for our next heavy-gear trip...

Remember too that drawers make for far more centralized weight compared to a rear bumper that hangs in back of the springs, leading to even more leverage against them.

Do you have a photo of how your truck sits now with the 2724's? Are you running 2702's or 2703's in the front? I was planning on doing 2703 front, 2722 rear with front and rear ARB bumpers but now I'm thinking that the 2722's might not be adequate. I'd rather have a little stinkbug than have the rear sit lower than the front

 

[Markuson]

Do you have a photo of how your truck sits now with the 2724's? Are you running 2702's or 2703's in the front? I was planning on doing 2703 front, 2722 rear with front and rear ARB bumpers but now I'm thinking that the 2722's might not be adequate. I'd rather have a little stinkbug than have the rear sit lower than the front

I'm running BP-51's, which include front springs as a coil-over unit. This unit has a preload adjustment ring at the top which allows custom tensioning of the front springs for whatever lift/weight-load you need...so I didn't have to choose a front spring.

Right now I'm at 20mm of preload, which ARB/Old Man Emu says is recommended for a front bull bar, winch, etc. Before the front bumper/winch/lights I was at 5mm preload.
I can't remember the exact weight bearing 20mm preload is specified for, but it wouldn't be too hard to find. So then depending on what you have in front weight wise, along with the lift you desire...you choose your springs for that weight.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Do you have a photo of how your truck sits now with the 2724's? Are you running 2702's or 2703's in the front? I was planning on doing 2703 front, 2722 rear with front and rear ARB bumpers but now I'm thinking that the 2722's might not be adequate. I'd rather have a little stinkbug than have the rear sit lower than the front

I feel that my 2722s are not enough for no rear bumper, and just a RTT and camping gear (albeit a lot of camping gear). I'd wish I would of gone 2723 with my old setup. now that I've adding a rear steel bumper and auxiliary fuel, i'm going to 2724.

Front stock spring rate is 500 lbf/in
OME springs rates are:
2700: 625 lbf/in, 420 mm free height, 18mm bar diameter (1" lift, stock bumper)
2701: 720 lbf/in, 425 mm free height, 19mm bar diameter (1" lift, steel bumper and winch)
2702: 625 lbf/in, 430 mm free height, 18.5mm bar diameter (2" lift, stock bumper)
2703: 720 lbf/in, 435 mm free height, 19mm bar diameter (2" lift, steel bumper and winch)

For comparison, BP-51 front spring is 750 lbf/in, preloading takes it much higher, but also the internal charge of a BP-51 is 290psi! To give you an idea, when I build prerunners I almost never go past 255 psi.

It really depend how much weight you are going to carry, and how high you want your truck to sit. All the rear springs have different coil thicknesses (which is why 2721 and 2722 are not as easily comparable as just knowing the lbf/in of them) 2723 is actually the tallest springs, with 2724 and 2725 being shorter.

In fact, lets just do this:

Stock rear spring: 170 lbf/in
OME rear springs:
2720: 270/350 lbf/in, 420mm & 410mm free height, 18.5mm bar diameter (OME says drops rear .75", I don't feel it does)
2721: 270/350 lbf/in, 440mm & 430mm free height, 18.5mm bar diameter (more lift than OME states of .75" lift)
2722: 275 lbf/in, 440mm & 430 mm free height, 19mm bar diameter (.5mm thicker bar, would equal a constant 220 lbs load over 2721)
2723: 340 lbf/in, 450mm & 440mm free height, 20mm bar diameter (constant 440 lbs load)
2724: 400 lbf/in, 445mm & 435mm free height, 21mm bar diameter (constant 880 lbs load)
2725: 440 lbf/in, 445mm & 435mm free height, 22mm bar diameter (constant 1300 lbs load)

Oh, and the taller rear springs, also knows at "A" spring, goes on the fuel tank side/USA passenger side.

 

[Mineral]

Very helpful thread.

Question

How do the 2723s pair with the 2702s up front (and 61029/91005s) on an otherwise stock LC200? Will it be too firm out back, or just extra manly? I now have experienced what @Taco2Cruiser said when he mentioned that the 2722s are too light even for just some weight on the roof and loaded w/ camping gear. Will I be hating life running 2723s unladen around town?

Context

I just lifted my 200 w/ @murf over at Camelback Toyota in Phoenix. (Great experience, btw.) My vehicle is pretty much stock, w/ just Timbren Rear SES and +1 sized tires. No armor, no bumpers, etc.

Initial Lift Kit
2 x OME2721 Rear Coil Springs
2 x Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Sport 61029 Rear Shocks
2 x Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Sport 91005 Front Struts
2 x OME2702 Front Springs
1 x OME661 Shock Guards – Pair
1 x Differential drop
2 x Upper SPC control arms
1X Pair of rear 10mm coil spacer
1x pair of OEM front 10mm spacers PT43136-60020

After the above initial kit went in, it looked great. Virtually level with just a 1/4" rake front to rear. However, imho, the 2721s didn't pair well with the 2702s. The back felt disconnected from the front, if that makes sense. It felt like I was sitting in the front hood, not on it, the vehicle squatted on acceleration, wandered within the lane (alignment was dialed in perfectly), and felt a *little* squirrel like under braking.

So, we swapped out the 2721s for 2722s.

The 1/4" rake increased nominally to a ~5/8" rake. It felt like I was now sitting on the hood rather than in it, the squat under acceleration was notably diminished, as was the wandering and *slight* squirrel-like behavior under braking. The most notable trade-off was the ride wasn't as cushy in the rear (but still comfortable) and the vehicle lost some cornering performance. (To be expected going from 2721 progressive to 2722 linear rate springs.) I would venture the 2721s pair better with the 2700s.

So, this weekend I hooked up my unladen trailer (~200-300# tongue weight), drove a few miles, then measured. The rig was at a reverse rake with the front about half inch higher than the rear. The rear lost about an inch of height.

If I simply take out the OEM spacers up front, I'd be left with a ~0.1" higher front than rear with the unladen trailer. However, that reverse rake will definitely increase to 1/2" reverse rake when I fill up the 60 gal water tank and ~600# in the camping gear in the trailer, assuming 10% of load weight goes to the tongue weight.

So, the other option is to swap out the 2722s for 2723s. I'm fairly certain this will take care of keeping the rig level or slightly raked when towing my small trailer. Given the 2723s have a free height 10mm higher than the 2722s, and are 65lbn/in stiffer, I imagine the rig will go from 3/8" rake unladen (2722) to 1-1.25" rake unladen (2723). Laden with the dry trailer, the ~1" drop under the 2722s will probably be more like 3/4" drop under the 2723s, leaving me with another 1/4" to 1/2" of compression before leveling out while towing.

With just me in the rig, not towing, I do feel like the rear does have room to increase firmness to match with the front. However, I don't know if going +65lb/in is going to be too much. Two main concerns: 1) I want the front (2702) and rear (2723) to feel connected/properly matched. 2) The kiddos (4,2, and newborn come this summer) love riding in the LC200 and I don't want them to be too uncomfortable around town.

Thoughts/guidance welcome: 1) Step up to 2723s and take the firmer ride around town or 2) keep the 2722s, remove the OEM front spacer, and live with a slight 1/10" to 1/2" reverse rake while towing the camping trailer.

 

[TexAZ]

I don't have any experience with OME springs in the front, but looking at the numbers, it looks like the front springs are too soft and giving you the diving feeling under breaking, and the squirrely feeling in corners.
I have Icon coilovers in the front, and had to run the stock shocks for a couple weeks when I got the icons serviced and it did exactly what you are describing.
I have run 2722s and 2721s in the rear, and for a good combination of solo driving and towing a trailer the 2721s are fantastic.
The 2722s seemed rough with an empty truck and squatted too much with a trailer.

 

[Willy beamin]

I run Eibach 700# 16" front / OME 2723's in the rears - feels firm which is what I was trying to obtain.