Need help (1 Viewer)

[bwr9300]

I was hoping it was something besides the brakes. But after driving it up the street today, its apparent the brakes are totally gone. I'm in my 4th week of being a newbie, with even less knowledge about do-it-yourself car mechanics... hence, changing brakes and turning rotors doesnt seem like a viable option. I've got a 95. I've posted threads and asked local mud members for good cruiser shops for me to go to... not much help there. one rec a dealership--but I know theyre going to have the highest of prices--another rec'd a shop, who I went to and they didn't know what birfields were, so I ruled them out.

I clearly need new break pads. I'm hoping turning the rotors will be sufficient and not need to be replaced--what do yall think of turning rotors is that usually a sufficient option or is it likely for the rotors to need to be replaced? The birfields click, sometimes worse than others. I'm not looking to take it to a shop and them tell me I need to buy new rotors if in fact yall say most times just turning them is adequate. Also, is it going to be most cost effective for me just to take it to a shop that knows LC--seems like the dealership in Cour D'Alene ID is the best option for me here--and have them do some sort of front axle service?? What all is included in those? will they repair or replace the birfields? how much are those usually??? Thanks for yalls help... I love my cruiser and will be doing mods beginning this year and will post...

 

[Ebag333]

Is this a DD? What year/milage?

I would personally get the FSM and do it yourself. The FSM will also tell you how to check and see how much life is left on your brakes and rotors. If your brake calipers have never been rebuilt or replaced, I would do a rebuild kit (relatively easy) or buy a reman caliper (super easy).

 

[bwr9300]

I've been looking for a FSM. It is my DD. It has 188k miles on it. My buddy says he can help put new brake pads on there but we'll need to take it somewhere else to turn the rotors.

 

[Ebag333]

You can get the FSM in PDF form for very cheap. Check the FAQ stickied at the top. Just takes a couple hours of downloading.

There are places that can turn the rotors while they're on the vehicle, you could go that route. If the rotors are below (or close to) the min spec in the FSM I would not turn them and instead get new rotors. Cdan is the guy to order the parts from if you can afford to wait about a week for the parts.

Sounds like it's time for a front end job. Expect to pay somewhere around $500-$700 depending on what gets replaced if you do it yourself, or $2,500+ for the stealership to do it. I would find someone who's done it before, and order the DVD.

All this (and more) can be found in the FAQ and with a little searching.

 

[AlbinoRhino]

If the rotors aren't warped and are within spec, maybe just go for new brake pads for now. I believe they drop in the top of the caliper w/o having to remove the whole caliper. Then spend some time in the faq to get familiar with the front axle service.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/78276-front-axle-rebuild-faq.html

That way, when you have the parts and the time you can do the birfs, seals and brake rotors yourself.

Expect to spend the whole weekend on the front axle for your first time tearing it apart tho.

 

[bwr9300]

Thanks for your help Ebag. What all do they do in a front end job... just check everything out in re to the front axle? What cost am I looking at for the rotors, say if I can't wait to get them from Cdan? I have been unable to get in touch with any guys around here that have 80 series.. so if I take it to a shop you expect the cost for a front end job to be comparable to that of the stealership (2,500+)??

 

[Ebag333]

Thanks for your help Ebag. What all do they do in a front end job... just check everything out in re to the front axle?

Look at the FAQ. It tells you exactly what needs o be done.

What cost am I looking at for the rotors, say if I can't wait to get them from Cdan?

More expensive? No idea what your local shop charges as they may or may not charge list price. They will almost certainly be significantly more than Cdan unless you get some real special pricing.

I have been unable to get in touch with any guys around here that have 80 series.. so if I take it to a shop you expect the cost for a front end job to be comparable to that of the stealership (2,500+)??

Depends on what they charge. It's an 8 hour job easy with multiple people working on it. If you have 2 people working on it for 8 hours (16 shop hours) at $75 an hour that's $1200. Add in another $1,000 for parts and you're up to that $2,500 guesstimate.

One person working themslves can easily do it in a single weekend, even if you haven't done it before (and assuming nothing goes wrong). Hence why many choose to do it themselves rather than pay someone to do it.

 

[bwr9300]

yall know what I'm looking at cost wise for rotors (just a rough estimate, say I do get them from CDan) and birfields? I'm reading through the front end axle repair link just posted.... thanks for yalls help... I love my new rig but unfortunately don't have $$ falling out of my pockets so I'm learning, buying tools, and figuring out what the hell I'm doing as I can...

 

[lacruiser]

OK.

Since this is your DD, and I assume you need to be driving this soon, rather than looking at in your driveway, here's a suggestion.

Get in there and inspect the brake rotors. If they are smooth and not all scraped up, then you could get by with just slipping in some brake pads. That will at least get the the truck in drivable condition. I wouldn't take any long trips with it, but at least you can get back and forth to work.

If the rotors are scored up badly, (like the brake pads have completely worn off the brake material and the metal backing plate has been rubbing into the rotors and scarred them), then you you need to at least have them resurfaced, or replace them.

If $$ are a concern, you can get some rather inexpensive aftermarket rotors. No, they aren't the best and I wouldn't recommend them for any heavy-duty wheeling with large tires. But if you're going to use this for awhile just as a city transportation vehicle, and you need to get it back up and running quickly and cheaply, this is an option.

There are cheaper ways to do the brakes rather than using Toyota OEM brake parts. There are many choices. It's up to you. Many on here are Toyota purists and suggest you buy all your parts from Toyota only. That's one way of thinking.

On the other hand, there are scads of options. You can go really inexpensive, as I said, or you can go to the other extreme and buy very expensive race-quality components that are superior to the Toyota stuff. Or anything in-between.

So first off, determine the condition of your rotors. If you have rough surfaces on the rotors, they will need to come off. If they are smooth, you CAN get by with just slipping pads in, to get you by for now. This will buy you some time to then decide what you want to buy for the long run.

If this wasn't your DD, by the way, I'd recommend another path. Buy quality and take everything apart. But since it's your DD, I assume time is of the essence and you need it running yesterday, and cheaply.

If the $$ are not a problem, then install quality now.

Can you be a little more precise about your description of your brake failure? You said it's apparent the brakes are totally gone. What do you mean, and how did you come to that conclusion? Do you have a horrible scraping/grinding noise when you apply the brake pedal? Is it just squealing? What are the symptoms?

Also, brakes are incredibly simple to replace. They make them kind of fool proof, almost, because they are so important. So don't panic, we can walk you through a simple brake job. You will need some tools, so you're acquiring tools is a good thing.

get back to us on the rotor condition and we'll go from there. You need to look both sides of each rotor. If one rotor has one bad side, and the other side is still smooth, and the rotor on the other side of that same axle is OK on both of it's sides, that means you'll have to attend to both rotors on that axle. Brakes are always serviced in pairs.

You can also gain a large amount of knowledge about these trucks and doing basic repairs from the Haines manuals. They are cheap, quickly available, and will teach you a lot about your truck. Get one.

 

[bwr9300]

ok. It seemed the scraping of the brakes was not consistent--it is. I was at a drive thru and I felt the lack of stopping, the brake pedal almost to the floor (but not fully). So from there I decided I needed to just drive this baby home--with hazards on. Every time I applied the brakes bad scraping and grinding sounds came. When I'm begining to accelerate (say from 0-8 mph and no brakes are involved) there's still a metal scraping sound, but much softer and quieter. On the way back (after the drive thru) I caught the tail end of a yellow light, as I was going around the turn, tapping the brakes to see if stopping was even an option, there was loud scraping and grinding but it seems like the brakes were lost and it would cause serious damage if I were to slam on the brakes if i needed to stop the rig. It's my DD, but I drive a lot for work. I make my own schedule, so I can take a day or two off if its best for the rig. Its my DD but I drive the hell out of it too... I would've been at the offroading park with it today if I had convinced myself my brakes were so bad. I've had it for right about 3 and 1/2 weeks and have put about 2k miles on it and have taken it offroading prob about 10-12 times/days.

 

[bwr9300]

Lacruiser, I love everything about diesel... and want to drop a turbo diesel in this before the years over (its knocking a little now and is annoying the **** out of me, so instead of repairing, I'd like to just upgrade it to diesel). --another reason I want to find a good LC shop around here that isnt gonna charge me an arm and a leg for stuff and I can trust with my rig. your rig diesel or just your signature line?

 

[Pin_Head]

People don't usually say their "brakes are totally gone" when it just needs new pads. Instead, the complaint would be it makes a squeeking or grinding noise.

What is the problem? What happens or doesn't happen when you step on the brake pedal?

 

[bwr9300]

scraping and grinding

 

[Devil's Slide Doug]

Even if your brake pads ground all the way through you should be able to get buy on just new pads for a short while (local trips) until you get the rotors resurfaced or replaced and do a proper brake job.

 

[Devil's Slide Doug]

Those pads wont last long and will have to be replaced again when you do the job for real.

 

[lacruiser]

scraping and grinding

OK, you're past the point of just slipping in some new pads.

You've got to either resurface those rotors, or replace them.

I don't know what your $$ situation is, but as I stated, you've got some choices.

You can get cheap rotors for around $35 each. Or toyota, or better quality aftermarket (like Brembo, probably comparable to Toyota but less $$), or high quality aftermarket (like the ones Slee sells, PowerStop). It all depends upon how much $$ you want to spend, and how fast you need them.

Same thing with pads. You can go cheap pads from Pep Boys or Autozone or whatever regional chain you've got in Spokane, or Toyota pads, or high quality aftermarket.

You need to decide what you want to spend, and how fast you need to get them into the truck.

Pick up the Haines manual and study the section about doing brake work. It will explain most of the procedure to you. As I said, it's not rocket science, but you do have to have some tools and the basic knowledge. Reading that (and/or online tutorials) will give you most of that knowledge, we can help with the rest on here.

you're going to need a good set of sockets and ratchets, both 3/8" drive and 1/2" drive, metric sizes. A set of metric combination wrenches. Floor Jack is nice, but you can probably get by with your truck's stock jack for this. You'll need Jack stands, don't skimp here, buy some high-quality ones, or if you need to buy the cheapies, go for the 12 ton models.

you'll need a selection of basic hand tools, like pliers and screwdrivers, etc, too, I can't specifically remember what right now, maybe others will chime in here. Perhaps you already have these?

You should have access to a torque wrench, as you'll need to remove the calipers from their mounts, and you should really re-torque to spec upon replacement, rather than just guessing. 1/2" drive torque wrench.

You'll need a quart of brake fluid. maybe you won't use it all, but have it on hand anyway.

That's a start. In the meantime, decide what you want to do about the parts choices.



Yes, I really do have a diesel.

 

[bwr9300]

I could reasonably spend around 500 to take care of this. any good recs on what parts to purchase? My buddy has plenty of tools I can use.

 

[Ebag333]

ok. It seemed the scraping of the brakes was not consistent--it is. I was at a drive thru and I felt the lack of stopping, the brake pedal almost to the floor (but not fully). So from there I decided I needed to just drive this baby home--with hazards on. Every time I applied the brakes bad scraping and grinding sounds came. When I'm begining to accelerate (say from 0-8 mph and no brakes are involved) there's still a metal scraping sound, but much softer and quieter. On the way back (after the drive thru) I caught the tail end of a yellow light, as I was going around the turn, tapping the brakes to see if stopping was even an option, there was loud scraping and grinding but it seems like the brakes were lost and it would cause serious damage if I were to slam on the brakes if i needed to stop the rig. It's my DD, but I drive a lot for work. I make my own schedule, so I can take a day or two off if its best for the rig. Its my DD but I drive the hell out of it too... I would've been at the offroading park with it today if I had convinced myself my brakes were so bad. I've had it for right about 3 and 1/2 weeks and have put about 2k miles on it and have taken it offroading prob about 10-12 times/days.

OK, you're past the point of just slipping in some new pads.

I agree with lacruiser, but I'll take it a step further.

You're likely past the point of just slipping in some new pads and new rotors.

When you apply your brakes and let up, the master cylinder retracts and literally sucks brake fluid back into it. This is a hydraulic action that causes the calipers to retract, and pull away from the rotors.

But even pulling the pads away the brake pads will lightly touch (or be very very close to) the rotor. This is why if you look at your brake fluid and see that it reads "low" you don't just top it off. You either have worn pads--meaning that the pistons are riding further extended in order to be close to the calipers, or you're losing brake fluid somehow (IE: leaking soft line). It doesn't just disappear or get "used up." The system is designed so that you have an idea of when your pads are done.

Anyway, the grinding sound you hear is (and this is just my best 630 mile away guess) is the brake pistons riding on the rotors. Because the pistons don't fully retract they will lightly ride the rotor, and you'll hear a grinding.

There are all sorts of sounds you can hear from brake pads, screeching, pulsating/grabbing feeling, but grinding is not one that you should hear. That grinding is metal to metal contact, and unless something funky is going on that usually means piston to rotor.

As far as cost goes, it depends on front or rear and how bad the damage is. The front rotors on my truck are lightly scored due to a frozen piston, it stops just fine (even comparing it to the truck). But it's very very light scoring, and I replaced both the calipers and pads with new, and I caught the problem before it was metal on metal (and still didn't avoid slight damage to the rotor).

You are going to spend a lot of money, so I highly recommend going through Cdan if at all possible. I highly doubt that anyone local will come anywhere close to his prices. Still expect to spend $500+ if you need rotors, calipers, and pads. I don't remember the exact prices on mine, but it wasn't cheap.

As far as OEM vs after market goes, I wouldn't use any of the aftermarket stuff personally. When the truck had a brake pad snap in half (literally) and slide out of the caliper (which resulted in metal on metal contact between the piston and rotor) I priced out after market calipers at Les Schwab. The price was nearly as much as Cdan (though theirs was parts + labor vs just parts) and the caliper they wanted to use was nearly half the size of the OEM one. The size difference was just silly.

So I've not been impressed with most aftermarket stuff out there when it comes to the braking system. I'm sure there's decent stuff out there, but the OEM setup frankly flat out amazes me and has far exceeded my expectations in every situation I've thrown at it.



Anyway, any way you cut it you need to pull off the wheel and see what is going on in there, for all four of 'em (front and rear). Take pictures and post up here if you are unsure as to what you are looking for. You don't even need to pull the calipers off, just take a picture of the caliper from the edge on (like you are taking a picture of the edge of the rotor, but with the caliper in the way) and we should be able to see how thick the pads are. Make sure you get a good pic of the rotor's surface as well. Shouldn't take long to do, just jack up the truck, throw jackstands under it, pull the wheel, take pictures, pop wheel back on, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[bwr9300]

I'll take pics and post first thing tomorrow.

 

[lacruiser]

Did you happen to notice if the grinding noise was coming from the front or rear of the vehicle? Since the front brakes do most of the work, I'd guess they are the culprits.

I seriously doubt the calipers are damaged at this stage. I'll assume from all your statements that this grinding just started? IOW, you haven't been driving it around with this grinding going on, have you?

It's probable that you've got one brake pad (out of the 4 front ones) that has worn down to the backing plate, (but the other 3 are right behind it) and you're hearing that backing plate rubbing directly on the rotor. metal on metal. It would take quite a bit of driving and braking to wear that backing plate away so that the caliper pistons were rubbing the rotor. I've only seen that once in my life. But I've seen several cases where the backing plate had eaten into the rotor so far that the interior vents were exposed.

I just bought a 95 cruiser about 2 weeks ago. The lady I bought it from just had her front brakes done, for this very reason, metal on metal.

Her total cost was $37 each for rotors, and $52 for brake pads. Plus installation labor. Of course they're aftermarket, but that truck stops quite well.

I'll leave them on until they show signs of problems, then I'll switch them out with a higher quality material.

If you've got $500 budgeted for this, and you're going to keep the rig, and you don't need to get it up and running tomorrow, then you should consider some better quality stuff.

The Brembo rotor is a good quality unit. Many people have them on their rigs, they have a good rep, and they're less expensive than Toyota. Brembo is an OEM supplier to many manufacturers worldwide. The PowerStop that Slee sells is a step above the OEM, and I think it's similiar in price to OEM. You can buy from Slee (drilled and slotted) or you can buy directly from Power Stop. You can get slotted, or drilled, or both drilled and slotted from them. I got the drilled only after talking with their tech guy for a while.

I also ordered their top of the line pad for heavy duty offroad use. So far, so good. I like the quality. These pads were more expensive than the OEM toyota, but are a superior pad. Better coefficient of friction and long-life, fade-resistant in extreme braking, and work well when cold. They have the performance of the semi-metallic pads but without their horrible cold-performance. They perform like organic pads when cold, semi-metallic when hot. They are made of Kevlar and some other compound, I forget exactly what.

Anyway, get some pix up tomorrow and lets see what you've got.