Electric fan project

[Spook50]

Okay so I got a decent deal on a Taurus fan (dual speed from '90-'95 Ford Taurus SHO w/ the 3.8L engine for those who don't know what I'm takling about) so I took a OEM fan shroud that I ordered from Cruiserparts.net and laid them both down on a piece of cardboard which I'll be marking and then taking to the local sheet metal shop to have an adapter plate made up. This will allow me to bolt the Taurus fan right in without having to use those "through the radiator" strap thingies. I'll be using the PK-35 from DDControl to run the fan and I'll mount it directly to the fan assembly. I'll post more to this thread as I progress. I want to integrate this fan perfectly into my rig, so it'll be a pretyt nice and clean job.

Yet another project getting started. Funny, haven't I said countless times that I'd be doing all the due maintenence and finishing all my other in-progress stuff before starting a new project? Heh, yeah, that didn't happen.

 

[Waggoner5]

That sounds like a plan. Post pics of the adapter and install if you don't mind. FYI, the Contour v6 dual fan setup is the exact size of the 60-62 core and has 2 speeds. Cools my 502 also.

 

[meluhha]

...the Contour v6 dual fan setup is the exact size of the 60-62 core and has 2 speeds...

Gary,
Are you saying it'll mount up without any fabrication?

Spook...I hear ya 'bout the projects. What started as a t-case replacement for me has drug out to be a year-long project with many little to-do things!!

Cheers,
Matt

 

[Waggoner5]

I used angle brackets and bolted it right up. There is some trimming of the Ford mounting plastic tabs but no big deal. 1997-99 Contour V6

 

[Spook50]

I used angle brackets and bolted it right up. There is some trimming of the Ford mounting plastic tabs but no big deal. 1997-99 Contour V6

Hey there's an idea. I wonder what the draw is with both fans running full speed. That might be a better way to go than the Taurus fan if the output is the same or higher.

 

[Kavik]

Sorry for the hi-jack

Gary,
Does it get hotter than hell in your part of Texas? In the process of dropping a 5.7 tbi in my FJ60 and I am planning to run a Taurus fan, but the Contour assm looks like a great fit. I just want to make damn sure my motor runs cool in the Phoenix heat.

Do you have a write up on the fan or wiring set up in your 60? I'm particularly interested in the thermosensor used and when the second stage kicks in...

Thanks!

hi-jack over

edit- Spook, you type faster than me!

 

[Waggoner5]

I have changed the wiring several times to suit the duty. When they were in front of the LT1 the low speed side was wired to the ignition and the high side was wired through a temp sensor in the head and off of the ac compressor. At this point with the 502 I am using the high side only and running it off of the ign. with a 100A relay. I found that when the fans run constantly, the temps stabilize and stay consistant. I would have run a voltage controller but the engine runs so consistant that I did not want to change anything. It gets really hot here in the Summer and I have had no issues. If I was in a cooler place I would probably change to a controller but still use only the high speed side.

The startup amperage is really high to go right to high speed, but after it starts, I would imagine 40A is the max draw. FYI...I had to do a repair in Colorado a few years ago when the 50A relay took a crap and all I had was 2 20A Bosche relays so I paralled them and went on down the road. Within 2 weeks 1 started to get hot and then instantly they both died. This is from the startup I'm sure. I was in and out of the truck wheeling with a big group. I use a 100 Continuous duty solonoid now and have had 0 problems.

 

[bigbrown]

i would love to see the write up as you go.

i like the idea of shutting down the fan for deep water crossing.


anyone with a 2f notice any power difference when using the electric fan?

 

[Spook50]

I have changed the wiring several times to suit the duty. When they were in front of the LT1 the low speed side was wired to the ignition and the high side was wired through a temp sensor in the head and off of the ac compressor. At this point with the 502 I am using the high side only and running it off of the ign. with a 100A relay. I found that when the fans run constantly, the temps stabilize and stay consistant. I would have run a voltage controller but the engine runs so consistant that I did not want to change anything. It gets really hot here in the Summer and I have had no issues. If I was in a cooler place I would probably change to a controller but still use only the high speed side.

The startup amperage is really high to go right to high speed, but after it starts, I would imagine 40A is the max draw. FYI...I had to do a repair in Colorado a few years ago when the 50A relay took a crap and all I had was 2 20A Bosche relays so I paralled them and went on down the road. Within 2 weeks 1 started to get hot and then instantly they both died. This is from the startup I'm sure. I was in and out of the truck wheeling with a big group. I use a 100 Continuous duty solonoid now and have had 0 problems.

Yeah my concern is with the continuous pull when they're both running at full speed (if they would even need to get up to full speed to cool a 3FE). Mainly I'm wondering if I should get the 35 amp controller or the 60 amp controller for it. I guess for an extra 20 bucks, the larger controller might be a better way to go just in case they pull more than 35A continuous. This looks like it may be a much cleaner installation than the Taurus fan with its adapter plate as well. Gary you may have gotten me to change my mine on which fan to use.

 

[Moby]

I justed finished dropping a Contour fan into my FJ-62 (thanks for the tip Gary!). Fits perfects. Lots of room in front of the engine now. I used 14ga angle steel to mount it. I had to weld spacers on to one to move the A/C piece out away from the radiator a bit to clear the fans. The only problem with this approach is that I have to pull the battery tray to remove the fan.

For a scratch built wiring design for a Mark VIII fan check out: http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/MarkVIII_Fan.htm This was going to be my approach until I found the Direct Current Control fan controllers. These suckers use a sensor in the radiator fins right above the outlet and vary fan speed (not just 2 speeds) to keep the coolant temp constant. Mine is up and running, it's a sweet setup and worth the price in my opinion.

As for amp draw see the integrated fans section on the DCControl website (www.dccontrol.com). The dual fan listed is a Contour (the 18" single at the top of the page is a MarkVIII). At 50% the Contour fan draws 10 amps and pulls 2300cfm. At full speed 34 amps and 3400cfm. So it's not as efficient as a MarkVIII but it should be fine for a 3FE. Also I have a 175 amp hot rated alternator and dual yellow tops

As for initial amperage draw also consider the dccontrol unit. It ramps the fans up slowly to avoid that 100+ amp start up spike. Note that for the Contour fan you will need the input surge filter accessory because the low impedence Bosch motors trigger the controller to short circuit without it. I just got mine and both fans are now running. I drove it around with just one of the fans hooked up and it didn't overheat in traffic (but it's pretty cold here). I'll drive it more extensively today and see how it goes.

Let me know if anyone wants pics.

 

[Moby]

Yeah my concern is with the continuous pull when they're both running at full speed (if they would even need to get up to full speed to cool a 3FE). Mainly I'm wondering if I should get the 35 amp controller or the 60 amp controller for it. I guess for an extra 20 bucks, the larger controller might be a better way to go just in case they pull more than 35A continuous. This looks like it may be a much cleaner installation than the Taurus fan with its adapter plate as well. Gary you may have gotten me to change my mine on which fan to use.

Per Brian at DCControl the 35 amp controller is fine for the Contour or the MarkVIII fans. The 60 won't hurt but it won't gain any reliability either (again per Brian). I'm running the 35 amp version with my Contour fan.

 

[73lndcrsr]

How deep is the Contour fan?

 

[Moby]

How deep is the Contour fan?

Not that deep. 3.4" per the dccontrol website. I set mine up so that the shroud is level with the radiator frame. It clears the 3FE pulleys with probably 1-2" to spare.

 

[Moby]

Contour fan install photos

Here are some photos of clearance for the Contour fan.

I'm having some trouble with the DCControl controller. It's variable all right but it's coming on closer too late. Probably the position of the temp sensor. I'll do some troubleshooting this weekend.

 

[Moby]

Couple more. In the second you can see the tabs I welded to the angle bracket to move the A/C dryer out away from the fan a bit. Unfortunately to thread the bolt through the tab I have to pull the battery tray. Oh well, at least everything is mounted solid.

 

[rat]

Don't know how you guys got this mod right. How deep are those fans? I struggled for months, and wasted much $, trying to get a Bosch V6 "S" blade electric fan (70mm deep) fitted to my 3F. No way would it fit behind the rad - so had to make it a pusher. It never worked well - rig would overheat off road, cos the fan blocked natural airflow to the rad. The fan also ran all the time, and pulled 30 amps - too heavy for the OEM alternator to supply... was altogether a waste of time.... I gave up, and fitted a custom shroud and a 22 inch aftermarket fan blade - had it dynamic balanced up to 12000rpm... rig stays below 160F now. But it surely wastes a lot of horses spinning the big fan...

 

[Moby]

The Contour fans are a perfect fit (they're Bosch made as well). Thin and with 2 fans the deepest portion isn't in line with the waterpump pulley (the closest thing to the radiator on a 3FE). I tried to get a MarkVIII fan to fit but it would have taken an approach like Spook suggests at the start of this thread.

I agree about the alternator. Any fan setup that is any good is going to draw 20+amps (and more like 30-35) and that's a lot of (I think too much) extra load on the stock electrical system. However I have an upgraded alternator - hot rated at 175 amps. I actually don't like it much as the fit is very tricky so I'm looking at other options but I won't go back to stock.

I'm also planning on hijacking the ecu's A/C idle up circuit when voltage dips below 13. That way when I need full blast from the fan at idle I'll have more idle rpms and thus will have a bit more alternater output. I've got a spare ecu that I need to swap in to try this out. I've also got dual batteries to help with the extra load.

As for cooling we'll see. If it cools Gary's 502 in Texas' summers it should cool my 3FE 3400cfm should be enough.

 

[Waggoner5]

So I guess the voltage device works as it should? What speed does the fan run at first startup? What temp value are you running when the fan goes to full output?
G

 

[lunyou]

hmm.....i thought the taurus fans bolted right to the 2f radiators.....this might dissuade me from doing the swap.

lunyou

 

[Moby]

So I guess the voltage device works as it should? What speed does the fan run at first startup? What temp value are you running when the fan goes to full output?
G

Well it's not working right yet. It's factory set to work with a 180 degree tstat (which is what I'm running). First time out I hit 220 on my aftermarket gauge (sender under the tstat) when I pulled over. The fan was only running maybe 1/3 speed. I cranked it down to it's lowest setting. Full speed then came on around 208 but that's way too high for the lowest setting (which is for a 160 degree tstat). Average temp was around 204. So something is off. I'm troubleshooting with Brian at DCControl. I'm guessing that maybe some blockage in my radiator isn't letting the sender get a good reading. Unfortunately I'm going to out of town so I'll have to pick this back up after I'm back.

Also for those of you using a relay to control fans check out the section on Freewheeling Diode on http://www.geocities.com/smithmonte/Auto/MarkVIII_Fan.htm. This is easy to build with RadioShack parts and sounds like it would help with relay life.