Electric fan project

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Don't you need something along the lines of a 100amp Alternator?

I know SPAL reccomends that on their 16 fan you 30amp relays and on their new high performance 16 inch fan you run a 60amp relay.

WHen you test drove the truck an it hit 220, where both fans going at full speed? and could you feel good airflow coming across the radiator?

I have a 16 inch SPAL fan that I'm goin tto have a friend fab up an aluminum radiator shroud for and plan to try that out this summer and see what happens. I'm concerned about the clearance between the radiator and the water pump, becuase its fairly close. If I recall its something less than 5 inches between the water pump pulley and the radiator core?

Unless you run some kind of aftermarket high AMP alternator I just don't think you're going to have enough amps to power the fans correctly. I think you'll find that most cars / trucks that have OEM electric fans run 100+ amp alternators....
 
Just for a bit more trivia here's my experience trying to fit a MarkVIII on an FJ-62. This is speculation but I think it might fit better with an FJ-40 radiator which I think is different than a 60/62 radiator (which is rectangular, I think a 40's is more square). The MarkVIII is basically square. If you use the integrated shroud it will leave a good 2-4 inches uncovered on one side. Probably not a big deal. You'll also need to trim a fair amount of depth from it to get it to clear the waterpump pulley (at least on a 3FE).

Oh yeah and if you've got a 62 with the integrated tranny cooler the inlet/outlet lines keep you from dropping the fan down as far as the stock fan. A stock clutch fan is 18" and the MarkVIII is 18". What I didn't notice is that the stock fan extends above and below the tube/fin section of the rad, basically over the tanks. This works because on the bottom just the fan blade section (not the whole shroud) sits between the tranny cooler lines. The MarkVIII's shroud extends from the top and bottom of the tips of the fan blades. This keeps the fan from dropping down as low as the stock fan which means more sticking out on top. Hood clearance was going to be tight. You'd need to fabricate a cover to keep from sucking in air over the top of the rad (actually even the stock 60/62 shroud has this, you'd have a bigger section to do on the MarkVIII).

I actually started down the route that Spook suggests at the start of this thread. In the end I just went with the Contour fan. 900 fewer cfms but a perfect fit. If I need a fabrication project at some point in the future I may still give it a try. But there are so many other things to do first :)
 
Joel I'm liking your method of using the contour fan with the DCC controller as opposed to the Taurus fan I was originally going to use. Looks like I could manage a much cleaner installation that way.

You mentioned earlier using something called an input surge filter. Wassat? I assumed it was something else you had to get from DCC, but I see no mention of it on their site, unless you're referring to part # 1.5KS.
 
Joel...

disregard my point about the alternator...i see in one of your msgs. now that you say you have an aftermarket ALT.

Does the DC control "controller" have the ablitily to run both fans independent of each other? Llike have one fan turn on with the A/C and temp, and have the 2nd fan turn on based upon just temp?

I'll go check out the DC control web site.

SPAL make a controller that can operate dual fans. I have one (which I've never installed yet. http://www.spal-usa.com/

I had setup dual 16inch SPAL fans on a GM pickup and was running a maual switch that SPAL also sells with a relay kit. These switchs cut on at 180 or 190 as I recall. THe controller allows you to set the "turn on" temp to whatever you would like.

THe problem with the Land Cruiser is that you just don't have too many options on where to install a temp sender or a electric radiator fan switch that has to be plumbing in the cooling system.

I'm not sure on the SPAL equipment you would have enough clearance between the fan and the water pump...using their fan which would have enough CFM to cool the vehicle.

I like the looks of the contour fan... let us know if you get it working right. The summer time will be the real test....along with pulling some long hills and running the A/C.
 
Spook50 said:
You mentioned earlier using something called an input surge filter. Wassat? I assumed it was something else you had to get from DCC, but I see no mention of it on their site, unless you're referring to part # 1.5KS.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the part. Per Brian the low impedence of the Bosch motors in the Contour fan trigger the short circuit protection in the controller.
 
Does the DC control "controller" have the ablitily to run both fans independent of each other? Llike have one fan turn on with the A/C and temp, and have the 2nd fan turn on based upon just temp?

>> No, but the controller has an A/C input. I've got it wired to the A/C compressor clutch wire. When this wire is triggered the controller runs at 50% regardless of radiator temp. So both fans are running at 50% in this mode which means 2300 cfm and only 10 amps.

I'll go check out the DC control web site.

>> Lots of really good info on this site

SPAL make a controller that can operate dual fans. I have one (which I've never installed yet. http://www.spal-usa.com/

>> I think that that's a 2 speed controller though right? Realistically that's probably all you need. However the DCC unit, from my tests at least, can run from ~10 percent to full speed. I just put my Fluke 88 meter on the output and ground terminals and watched it vary the output to the fans. All the way from 2-3 up to full voltage. Pretty cool!

I had setup dual 16inch SPAL fans on a GM pickup and was running a maual switch that SPAL also sells with a relay kit. These switchs cut on at 180 or 190 as I recall. THe controller allows you to set the "turn on" temp to whatever you would like.

THe problem with the Land Cruiser is that you just don't have too many options on where to install a temp sender or a electric radiator fan switch that has to be plumbing in the cooling system.

>> I've got an aftermarket Nordskog temp gauge. It's pretty accurate. I drilled and tapped the t-stat housing for an additional sender. On my 3FE this is directly opposite of the factory temp sender for the dash gauge (not the EFI senders) under the t-stat (so it will tell me if the t-stat fails closed). On of my alternate plans was to use this sender to drive a volt-sensing trigger for the fan relay (in my case I've got a Bosch 75amp relay spec'd for inductive motor loads and I'd use a free-wheeling diode setup as well). This is my fall back plan if I can't get the DCC unit to work.

I'm not sure on the SPAL equipment you would have enough clearance between the fan and the water pump...using their fan which would have enough CFM to cool the vehicle.

I like the looks of the contour fan... let us know if you get it working right. The summer time will be the real test....along with pulling some long hills and running the A/C.

>> Will do - I hope to get back to it next week. For the summer I will be swapping in a Man-a-fre/Ron Davis aluminum radiator for extra insurance (I was planning on doing that any way).
 
Ok,

My experience on the pickup I referenced is that your fan "turn-on" temp needs
to be about 10 degres above your thermostat temp. Also it depends greatly on where your temp sender is as to how accurate your actual engine temp reading is. On the truck I was working on I was using an electric autometer temp guage. If I read the temp at the intake...there was about a 10 degrees difference between that and reading the temp at the cylinder head, with the intake being on the high side. Since I was using a SPAL thermostatically (if thats a word) driven switch it made a difference.

I'm not sure of the accuracey of taking temp readings at the radiator with one of the sensors like DC control apparently uses.... unless you are just using that has a reference point. I would rather control the electronic fans based on a sensor that's in the cylinder head coolant path. I would bet there is a similar temp flucation in the range between your sender in the thermostat housing and placing a sender in the stock location on the cylinder head. I'm not familar with the other engines on the Land Cruiser, I have a 1986 FJ60 with the 2F engine and it has a OEM temp sender in the cylinder head to the rear of the engine.

I've read on where on other makes of vehicles people have adapted a temp sender to install in in-line on the lower radiator hose to drive the electric fans. I know Auto-meter makes some of these adapters. I can't say how they work.

I'll take a different path and see how well a single 16 inch spal fan works with a fabricated aluminum shroud using a stock type metal 4 core radiator. I'm going to run the SPAL controller which you can feed signal too from a Stock type GM temp sender. I'll adapt that to the land cruiser (yet to be determined where) and well see how it goes.

I do know the SPAL products are good quality and you'll find them on many different Hot-Rod type applications. I may run into a clearance problem that I alluded to previously becuase the SPAL fan has a large motor that may protude to far to the rear of the radiator and get into the water pump. If so then I may be shooping for a contur fan. While I think the OEM setup on my land cruiser does a good job.... I do know factualy that at low speed a electric fan properly setup will cool very well.

I want the electric fan to come on automtically and be totally independent of manual input. "like my honda accord"

by the way....any good sources on the V-6 contur fan?

upon review of the SPAL controller directions... it will run one fan at varying speeds.... it then can controll a 2nd fan with only "on" or "off". I think these products are similar.... The DC control input is the sensor in the radiator.... the spal input is the temp sender that plumbs in the coolant system.

My concern is not necessarily how one turns on the fan ...but having an electric fan with enough CFM to adaquately cool the truck along with a decent fan shroud setup for the fan, and a good well designed mounting system.

THe other issue on these trucks is that the radiator core is not that large (on my truck its roughly 24 * 16 inches). which really limits what you can do as far as dual fans.

along with the above...anyone have some real world results on an electric radiator fan setup on a land cruiser, using it as the main cooling source. Temp readings in the summer with the A/C , under load type stuff?

Thanks....
 
One more question Joel, what alternator do you use? I'm looking to upgrade to a Mean Green once I get around to installing the second battery, but that's still a little ways away.
 
Spook50 said:
One more question Joel, what alternator do you use? I'm looking to upgrade to a Mean Green once I get around to installing the second battery, but that's still a little ways away.
Click to expand...

I've got a Mech Man. It's hot rated at 175 amps. I've had it for a while and I've never been real thrilled with it mainly due to the fit and pulley alignment. The fit is very finicky due to some custom brackets. It really cranks out the amps however and it has a custom undersized pulley to help out with the idle output. However recently the voltage started jumping around a bit certain at speeds. I had it checked (out of the truck) and it is in the alt. I replaced the voltage regulater and that wasn't it. Maybe the diodes. When the engine comes out for the rebuild this winter I'll probably send it back to Mech Man for a rebuild. However if the Mean Green is a direct fit (i.e. no custom brakets on the bottom, which is common to adapt a Ford type case and which is where my current fit problems are) I may get one of those and see if it has enough output for my needs. I doubt that their 140 amp rating is hot though which probably means closer to 110-120 hot.
 
I'm not sure of the accuracey of taking temp readings at the radiator with one of the sensors like DC control apparently uses.... unless you are just using that has a reference point. I would rather control the electronic fans based on a sensor that's in the cylinder head coolant path. I would bet there is a similar temp flucation in the range between your sender in the thermostat housing and placing a sender in the stock location on the cylinder head. I'm not familar with the other engines on the Land Cruiser, I have a 1986 FJ60 with the 2F engine and it has a OEM temp sender in the cylinder head to the rear of the engine.

>> The www.dccontrol.com site has more details on why they read at the radiator outlet. My understanding (and I'm not saying one is better, I don't have the background to make the case) is that the point is that the fan shouldn't need to run unless the rad by itself can't do the job. If you read the temp before it enters the rad you're going to turn the fan on even though it might not be needed (i.e. the rad is going to cool the coolant fine without additional help). My guess is that the difference between reading before versus after in the real world is a wash - if the temp is starting to climb at the t-stat it means the rad can't keep up and the effective experience is the same.

I'll take a different path and see how well a single 16 inch spal fan works with a fabricated aluminum shroud using a stock type metal 4 core radiator. I'm going to run the SPAL controller which you can feed signal too from a Stock type GM temp sender. I'll adapt that to the land cruiser (yet to be determined where) and well see how it goes.

>> I'll be very interested to see how this goes, please post up when you get this working.

I do know the SPAL products are good quality and you'll find them on many different Hot-Rod type applications.

>> I defnitely wasn't trying to knock SPAL, they do make good products (I think they are OEM on some "super" cars like Lambos?). I had two small SPAL pusher fans in front for a while this summer. They'll probably get moved to an additional oil cooler in the future.

by the way....any good sources on the V-6 contur fan?

>> I went new OEM from the dealer (ouch!). You can get them online for cheaper but for a primary cooling fan reliability was my main concern.

upon review of the SPAL controller directions... it will run one fan at varying speeds.... it then can controll a 2nd fan with only "on" or "off". I think these products are similar.... The DC control input is the sensor in the radiator.... the spal input is the temp sender that plumbs in the coolant system.

>> I looked at the setup instructions closer, this controller has a lot more than the initial product details on their site suggest. I'll be very interested in how it works out for you.

My concern is not necessarily how one turns on the fan ...but having an electric fan with enough CFM to adaquately cool the truck along with a decent fan shroud setup for the fan, and a good well designed mounting system.

THe other issue on these trucks is that the radiator core is not that large (on my truck its roughly 24 * 16 inches). which really limits what you can do as far as dual fans.

>> We'll see how the contour fan does. Too cold to really give it a good test right now. I haven't been able to get it above 190 degrees (per my Nordskog gauge) so far.
 
I got the DCC controller working. I had to move the radiator temp probe. I think it was in a cold spot in the radiator (I'll be upgrading the rad to a man-a-fre/Ron Davis aluminum for the rebuild anyway). So far the temp now stays right around 186-190. I haven't seen it go over 190 but it's pretty cold here right now. It's pretty cool - watching my Nordskog temp gauge you can actually see the controller "catch" the temp spike and ramp up the fans to keep the temp below 190 and then back them down to keep it above ~186. This appears to be functioning as expected for a 180 degree t-stat. I'll try and post up as I get more time on this setup.
 
Not wanting to hijack the thread but cant access the dcc website, I'm gonna do the Taurus fan swap in my 40. It has a 283 sbc and it runs fairly warm in the summer here in S texas. I just wanna know what the controllers cost, DCC and SPAL . Is the wiring fairly self explanatory?
Thanks
 
Moby said:
I got the DCC controller working. I had to move the radiator temp probe. I think it was in a cold spot in the radiator (I'll be upgrading the rad to a man-a-fre/Ron Davis aluminum for the rebuild anyway). So far the temp now stays right around 186-190. I haven't seen it go over 190 but it's pretty cold here right now. It's pretty cool - watching my Nordskog temp gauge you can actually see the controller "catch" the temp spike and ramp up the fans to keep the temp below 190 and then back them down to keep it above ~186. This appears to be functioning as expected for a 180 degree t-stat. I'll try and post up as I get more time on this setup.
Click to expand...

Where in the rad do you have the sensor now?
 
Spook50 said:
Where in the rad do you have the sensor now?
Click to expand...

Center of the rad about 4-5 inches up from the bottom. DCC recommends, for a downflow, anywhere along the bottom but preferably towards the outlet pipe. So I've still got it within their spec, maybe just up a bit more then usual.

Really though I think that this is an issue with my rad - it looks like the re-core I had done 5 years (~30,000 miles) ago was kind of a so-so job. Sections of fins are crushed and the rins don't extend all the way to the bottom. Cooling is OK but the workmanship is kind of poor. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the flow was reduced where I originally had the sensor. Oh well, I was planning on upgrading my rad to aluminum anyway :)

Oh and I did some more testing. I have a 1/8-1/4 mile hill near my house. I flogged the truck up 3 times with a lot of throttle. Each time I pulled over at the top and idled for a while. Heavy throttled driving followed by a long idle was usually when temp would creep up the worst. I think that this was mostly because the waterpump doesn't seem to move much volume at idle. Worst my Nordskog temp gauge read was 196 while sitting at idle at the top (at which point the fan was on full and brought the temp down reasonably quickly). Normally in a case like this temp would hit 205-210 with the stock fan and a new clutch. Again, air temp was mid 40's so this wasn't a great test but a bit more data at least.
 
nspctr1 said:
Not wanting to hijack the thread but cant access the dcc website, I'm gonna do the Taurus fan swap in my 40. It has a 283 sbc and it runs fairly warm in the summer here in S texas. I just wanna know what the controllers cost, DCC and SPAL . Is the wiring fairly self explanatory?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Price for the 35 amp controller (which will handle a full 35 amps without problem, i.e. a Contour or MarkVIII) is $109. Wiring for the DCC unit is simple. The controller includes good quality solderless AMP style crimp connectors (not the auto store junk - I'm really picky about my electrical connectors - see http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/terminal.pdf for reference).

However if you want you can get a brand new MarkVIII with the controller all pre-wired from DCC for $339. A Contour with controller is $364. In either case all you do is mount the fan, run a ground and a positive wire to the controller, and stick the sensor in the rad.
 
Moby,

have you gotten the fans working right? I noticed you could buy the fan assembly "new" (for the contur) from rock auto. I think it listed for $200.

Anyway let us know how it turned out. I've not done anything yet on my yota....I'm waiting to fix a couple of other issues before I start screwing with somthing new.
 
Elbert said:
Moby,

have you gotten the fans working right? I noticed you could buy the fan assembly "new" (for the contur) from rock auto. I think it listed for $200.

Anyway let us know how it turned out. I've not done anything yet on my yota....I'm waiting to fix a couple of other issues before I start screwing with somthing new.
Click to expand...

Well, we've had quite a bit of snow here the last couple of weeks but I've been driving it regularly and have had no problems with the fan or controller once I move the temp sensor. It almost never gets above 190. Occassionally it will creep up to 198 after being full warmed up and doing lots of hard 20-50-20-50 accelerations and then coming to a complete stop (gotta love the traffic here). In this scenario I think it's just that the water pump isn't moving enough water at idle. With my clutch fan in the same scenario the temp would hit 205-210 and then come down at the same speed (so fan volume doesn't seem to be the issue in this scenario). In regular stop and go city driving it is glued to 188-190 once fully warmed up.

Anyway that what I've got so far. I'm about to take the truck down to W and James at Over the Hill for an engine rebuild so it will be offline for a couple of months. I'll be dropping in a Man-a-Fre/Ron Davis aluminum radiator as part of the build up as a little extra cooling insurance for the summer.
 
Just checked RockAuto & they have a 1998 SVT Countour fan assembly DORMAN Part # 620104 for $130.89. My local Ford dealer says $342.43 list ($273.94 wholesale). Dorman is an OEM supplier, no?
 
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