Next Project - Fixing PO Power Steering Debacle (1 Viewer)

[RWBeringer4x4]

Hey all,

Now that the transfer case saga is complete, on to the next project - fixing the PO's disastrous attempt at a Saginaw Power Steering Conversion. I'm going to need a ton of advice. First thing I need to do is collect parts. I'm wondering what parts of this setup is reusable, and what I should buy replacements for. I'll try to break this up over a few posts. Thank you all, in advance, for the replies.

POST 1: The Box, Problems:

1. Box is literally welded to a plate, which is welded to a frame-horn mount similar to what the vendors here sell. NO BOLTS. The box is simply welded to the plate.

2. Box is set too far forward, at a downward angle (see side shot). Should this be mounted more flat when I go back and redo it?

3. Gaping, unreinforced hole cut in my front cross member to allow for a C-clamped spud shaft inside. It's my understanding that I should probably mount the box further back toward the cross member, and do away with the spud shaft alltogether. I've also heard mention of a slip-yolk to prevent the rear seal on the box from leaking due to flex. Any suggestions here?

4. Seems to me I should mount the box closer to the corner of the frame than the PO did. Should I shift the whole thing as far right as a fresh mounting plate allows?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

POST 2: Steering Shaft Problems

POST 2: Steering Shaft Clearance Problems

1. Steering shaft is rubbing on the Ram's Horn manifold of my 350SBC. Not enough to impede movement, but enough that the wear marks are obvious. I'm assuming this would clear itself up if the box was mounted back further, and slightly more to the right, from where it is currently.

2. Lower Steering Rod U-Joint - This thing is VERY close to my frame rail (millimeters) but I haven't run into any issues with rubbing here yet. My concern is if I ever take this thing off-road, frame flex will cause interference. Again, I'm not sure how moving the box would affect this, but are there SMALLER U-joints that I could safely use here?

3. Large Welded blob in the middle of Steering Shaft, just below the upper U-Joints. You can see it just above where it is rubbing on the exhaust manifold. No idea why it's there, but it makes me curious...and by curious I mean nervous.

4. Upper U-joints - seem rusty, but seem to work fine.

So the big question here is: Can I reuse any part of the steering shaft here, or should I replace all of it as well as the box?

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Sunday Bump. Abbreviated version: Just the questions:

1. Any tips as to an improved mounting angle for the new box, when I get it - flatter? Pushed further toward the frame horn?

2. Are the steering shaft and U-joints salvageable, or should I budget to replace the steering shaft as well? Are there smaller U-joints available for improved frame-rail clearance?

3. Spud shaft, Slip yolk, or nothing, between the steering shaft and the box?

4. My drag link ends are siezed - I've tried everything but a torch. Should I replace the drag link ends, or the entire drag link, while I'm at it?

 

[darwink1]

A sixty series box mounted outside the frame rail would eliminate a lot of your problems.

D

 

[PixelWrangler]

Rick,
I'm certainly no expert, but in my opinion, rip that s*** outta there and start fresh. I don't see anything that's worth trying to save. I'm certain you've also come to that conclusion, but just need to hear it from someone else.

If you decide to stick with the Saginaw steering, there are much cleaner solutions available utilizing smaller u-joints, collapsable shafts, etc. I know you've seen the many examples on other builds.

As for the gearbox angle, mine was also put in at an angle by the PO, though not as extreme as yours. It pulls the drag link up too high increasing it's angle. Again, I'm no expert, but I don't see that as an advantage.

Also that high pressure hose worries me the way that it is routed now towards the front and below the gear box. It's just waiting for something to reach up there and tear it out.

Good luck!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

A sixty series box mounted outside the frame rail would eliminate a lot of your problems.

D

If I was putting in power steering from scratch, this is the exact route I would have taken. That, or mini-truck steering. I'm only runny 31's and doing light offroad stuff (someday) so the Sag box is way overpowered for my application. Unfortunately, since the PO was kind enough to bore out my crossmember already, might as well stick with the Saginaw setup.

Rick,
I'm certainly no expert, but in my opinion, rip that **** outta there and start fresh. I don't see anything that's worth trying to save. I'm certain you've also come to that conclusion, but just need to hear it from someone else.

If you decide to stick with the Saginaw steering, there are much cleaner solutions available utilizing smaller u-joints, collapsable shafts, etc. I know you've seen the many examples on other builds.

As for the gearbox angle, mine was also put in at an angle by the PO, though not as extreme as yours. It pulls the drag link up too high increasing it's angle. Again, I'm no expert, but I don't see that as an advantage.

Also that high pressure hose worries me the way that it is routed now towards the front and below the gear box. It's just waiting for something to reach up there and tear it out.

Good luck!

Thanks for following up! Yeah, I was pretty sure the response would be "trash it and start over."

I'm definitely going to go for a less extreme angle on the gearbox. And there is no way in h*ll I'll be running the high pressure hose like that. I've had this FJ40 for 6 months and I have just been waiting for the box welds to crack, or that hose to blow, and send me straight into a tree. Will feel much better once this mess is all cleaned up.

Would you (or anyone else) happen to have a part number or a thread for a decent steering slip-shaft? I saw one build that used a Borgeson, but it looked "thick" and I'm worried about my clearance issues.

 

[kurtnkegger]

The spud shaft is something that was standard with older steering installs. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters has a piece of tube that fits the box collar, and is something to weld to your frame cross member to help stiffen/strengthen it. That is a must in my opinion.

I run the Borgeson collapseable shaft in mine, and while it's tight, it clears. I got mine from Summit Racing, as well as ith U joints.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The spud shaft is something that was standard with older steering installs. Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters has a piece of tube that fits the box collar, and is something to weld to your frame cross member to help stiffen/strengthen it. That is a must in my opinion.

I run the Borgeson collapseable shaft in mine, and while it's tight, it clears. I got mine from Summit Racing, as well as ith U joints.

Thanks Kurtnkegger,

Is the spud shaft something that I could do away with altogether if I mount the box back far enough? I guess I'll have to give the borgeson shaft a try and see how it goes. I'm definitely going to mount the pipe through the frame, or find a way to create a mount that keeps the cross member boxed...Does anyone have any experience with this mount from Downey?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Toyota-Land...Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cbaff77e8

Would the pipe still be needed with that one, or does that sufficiently box the frame back in around the box?


Seeing as my drag link ends are siezed in the link, I may be going back to Kurt for a replacement conversion Drag Link as well...

 

[PixelWrangler]

Thanks for following up! Yeah, I was pretty sure the response would be "trash it and start over."

I'm definitely going to go for a less extreme angle on the gearbox. And there is no way in h*ll I'll be running the high pressure hose like that. I've had this FJ40 for 6 months and I have just been waiting for the box welds to crack, or that hose to blow, and send me straight into a tree. Will feel much better once this mess is all cleaned up.

Would you (or anyone else) happen to have a part number or a thread for a decent steering slip-shaft? I saw one build that used a Borgeson, but it looked "thick" and I'm worried about my clearance issues.

I haven't sorted out what exactly my game plan will be as yet. I need to install my Ranger overdrive and that entails remounting the engine, tranny and Tcase, so the geometry is gonna change. Like you, I've got the biga$$ hole in my cross member, so most likely I'll stick with the Saginaw PS. But like others have said, it's just metal and can be repaired. I'll be looking at all of the options when the time comes.

 

[Fast Eddy]

No experience with that ebay bracket, but it might be a solution for your cut-out frame x-member. Cruiser Outfitters sells a tubing section for that issue as well.

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/powersteering.html

You could call Georg @ Valley Hybrids and have him look at your pics and make a recommendation. I'm sure he stocks those parts as well as the high-pressure line.

Try to find a 4-bolt setup. You can go to Napa and get a box for a '76 Jeep J2000, which is a 4-bolt, 4-turn box.

You might find that the shaft works find after you move the box a little. It basically looks ok, but it would be nice to have at least a short section that is collapsible.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

No experience with that ebay bracket, but it might be a solution for your cut-out frame x-member. Cruiser Outfitters sells a tubing section for that issue as well.

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/powersteering.html

You could call Georg @ Valley Hybrids and have him look at your pics and make a recommendation. I'm sure he stocks those parts as well as the high-pressure line.

Try to find a 4-bolt setup. You can go to Napa and get a box for a '76 Jeep J2000, which is a 4-bolt, 4-turn box.

You might find that the shaft works find after you move the box a little. It basically looks ok, but it would be nice to have at least a short section that is collapsible.

Thanks fast Eddy, I'll be sourcing the box out of my next paycheck, hopefully I can track down the Jeep box - if not, I'll get the tried and true 68 Impala box.

I am going to ditch the existing steering shaft and U-joints - I'm getting knocking in both directions just before I hit the locks. Haven't given it a hard look but I am pretty sure it's coming from the lower U-joint on the shaft...I also agree that I would like a collapsible section.

Will adding a collapsible section also help preserve the box, since it allows some play in the shaft during flex?

I'm hoping the borgeson will fit once the box has been oriented correctly. I think Kurt is out of town, but does anyone know if the steering shaft that Kurt sells is any more narrow?

 

[merlinridesagain]

I'm interested in what you find/use to solve the steering shaft path issues. I've got a similar "questionable" install where the shaft is too close to the frame.

good luck!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I'm interested in what you find/use to solve the steering shaft path issues. I've got a similar "questionable" install where the shaft is too close to the frame.

good luck!

Thanks Merlin,

I think my frame clearance issues will be solved by smaller u-joints, it's more the manifold clearance that is the problem for me.

It's gonna be a couple of months of sourcing parts (well, paying for parts) but I will be sure to come back with the finished product!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

The more I read about this, the more questions I have!

Does anyone have a link to this conversion with a 350 engine?

I'm not sure how that top U-joint is attached - In the event it's welded, and I have to cut that top U-joint off (see picture) will I have enough steering column shaft left to set up the steering shaft properly, or am I going to make my clearance issues worse?

Most of the conversion threads deal with the stock F or 2F engine - not sure if shorter column or longer will help me past the Ram's Horn.

 

[Fast Eddy]

If you take the column out to remove that joint, you should be able to preserve whatever length is already there. Don't just cut it off. Grind back the welds and remove the u-joint.

Napa had the J2000 box in stock when I went in to get it. It was cheap too. I think $175 + core and even your crappy POS death trap is probably good enough for a core.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Ok, it's all starting to come together. So, to establish the parts list:

NEW PARTS:

1. Power Steering Box - 76 Jeep J20 or 68 Impala (4 turn ideal)
2. Steering shaft: Borgeson 36" or Kurt's (whichever is thinner for clearance)
3. U-Joints for top/bottom of shaft
4. Steering Box Mount: New Downey-style mount or traditional mount from Kurt or Georg (still looking for opinions here)
5. Replacement Drag Link Ends
6. Replacement steering column bearing (probably makes sense, while it's out, right?)
7. Replacement hoses (still need to source)
8. Replacement steering Stablizer (truck currently has one, leaking badly, no need to repeat the "it's a band-aid" lecture)

PARTS TO BE REUSED:

1. Pitman Arm
2. Drag Link

At this point, I'd might as well replace the tie rod ends while I'm there...but I know how this goes....soon I'll be doing a frame off...

 

[Downey]

Downey Mount on Ebay

If you are considering the Downey mount on ebay, also look at their steering column/shaft and hose kit on the same site.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Hey Jim! Do you have any pictures of that mount installed? If you get a chance, take a look at the picture up top - think that bend goes back far enough to patch the gash the PO left?

I'll certainly take a look at that steering column as well.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Ok, I looked at the steering column - it looks like the top half is likely to thick for my application - any idea how long to top portion is? Judging by the picture I think I'd definitely be conflicting my ram's horns...

 

[Downey]

Ok, I looked at the steering column - it looks like the top half is likely to thick for my application - any idea how long to top portion is? Judging by the picture I think I'd definitely be conflicting my ram's horns...

The Downey mount only goes back into the frame 1.25 to 1.5", your frame is cut back atleast 2". You could weld-in a scab plate behind the Downey mount.
Also look at my P.S. Hose Kit, hoses make an immediate rearward turn and just skim over the top of the frame--below your grille panel.
You could use the larger diameter of my steering shaft on the bottom, and the actual length of the larger O.D. (slip-yoke portion) is trim'able to any length you desire (shorter or longer).