Next Project - Fixing PO Power Steering Debacle

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Back to a question from earlier:

How important is the scab plate welded to the passenger side frame horn? I've seen this done on some, but not all, Saginaw conversions...Will a Saginaw box really bend the opposite side frame horn? I'd assume the tires would have to be jammed pretty bad to transfer that much force...

I don't know about the saginaw box torqing the passenger frame rail, but an Oak tree can do some serious damage. This is what mine looked like when I bought it 3 years ago.

TLC_0057.webp

It didn't help that the PO was running without a bumper, though the stock bumper probably wouldn't have helped much. I took it to a frame shop and had it and the frame straightened. It now sports a scab plate and a bumper.


:cheers:
TLC_0057.webp
 
I don't know about the saginaw box torqing the passenger frame rail, but an Oak tree can do some serious damage. This is what mine looked like when I bought it 3 years ago.

It didn't help that the PO was running without a bumper, though the stock bumper probably wouldn't have helped much. I took it to a frame shop and had it and the frame straightened. It now sports a scab plate and a bumper.


:cheers:

Interesting - so maybe it's a "while we're in here" sort of thing? I'll wait for others to weigh in. I seem to recall seeing a post arguing over whether or not this is necessary with the addition of a saginaw box...

I'm running one of those heavy duty tube bumpers from the 70's now - my original bumper was bent to hell and zip-tied on. Hopefully that would help protect against any trees that jump out at me...
New Bumper.webp
 
New Box!

New Box arrived today. Best price I was able to find was through AutoZone, so that's where I got it. The rebuild quality seems decent, and it comes with a lifetime warranty, so in the event it craps out early, I'll just swap it with another one. :meh:

In case anyone is looking for confirmation of the other thousand saginaw steering posts, the box I ordered is listed below. I have confirmed that it is indeed 4 1/4 turns lock-to-lock, and has a 32-spline input gear. The store had it listed as 0.80" input gear, which equates to (almost) the same as 13/16." It should work!

1976 Jeep J20 Power Steering Box
Cardone Part #27-6529 (6529 was included in some way in every store/rebuilder I looked)
4 mounting bolts
4-1/4 turns lock to lock
32 spline, 13/16" (0.80") input gear
New Box.webp
 
Steering Shaft Questions

So the next step will be picking out the steering shaft.

Question for any of you V8 conversion drivers out there: What steering shafts are you running? Are you all running the Borgeson 3/4" x 36" collapsible shaft?

Have any of you added a U-joint in the center of the shaft? I don't really think it should be necessary once the box is moved but it's a possible alternative...

Looking for my best shot at clearing the Ram's Horn and frame...
 
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So the next step will be picking out the steering shaft.

Question for any of you V8 conversion drivers out there: What steering shafts are you running? Are you all running the Borgeson 3/4" x 36" collapsible shaft?

Have any of you added a U-joint in the center of the shaft? I don't really think it should be necessary once the box is moved but it's a possible alternative...

Looking for my best shot at clearing the Ram's Horn and frame...

Following you on this now. Learning through your pain!
 
Welcome aboard :). Gonna be a little slow going as I am on a budget, but I'm sure we will both be learning a lot along the way...
 
orangefj45 said:
hey scott.
thanks for the pm. i'm not a huge fan of the fj60 ps swap. mostly because the pumps don't put out a lot of pressure ( compared to the sag pumps ) and they have a bad tendancy to leak. good remans are hard to find and they're not cheap.
so all the ps swaps we do utilize a sag pump.
depending on the tire size of the 40, we run either the minitruck ps box ( for up to 33x10.50 tires ) or the sag box for larger tires and rigs that will do a lot of wheeling.
hth
georg @ valley hybrids

Just got this from Georg. Hope he doesn't mind my quoting him from PM, but thought it lends a lot of weight to you continuing on your current path.

VV
 
Interesting - yeah that is a pretty convincing argument. I do think the 60 swap (or even the mini truck swap) would work fine in my rig, since I'm only running 31's and don't plan on ever going past 33's. That said, the hole in my crossmember and having half the hard parts necessary for the sag swap made up my mind. That is interesting about the 60 series boxes though... Sounds like I made the right choice!
 
Hey All,

Still trying to find some good examples of a steering shaft run past a V8 inside-the-frame exhaust manifold/headers. Anyone running a 350 or 305 with some good shots of this in their build thread?

Would also be curious to know if most people use a 3-joint steering shaft in this application, or if the straight shaft with a joint at each end are sufficient...
 
Hello All,

I went through this about 10 years ago when I replaced the hacked PS setup that that the PO cobbled together. Starting at the steering column, I bought some 2" delrin rod and had it turned down so it JUST squeezed into the end of the steering column tube. Cut it to about 3" or 4" long and had the appropriate hole bored through the center (3/4" IIRC) to form the bearing at the firewall end of the column. Cross drilled the piece and installed a grease zert in the column tube for lube. Super solid and smooth. I also cut the steering shaft back so only about 1.5" protruded from the column and had the flats machined in it to form the Double D that the steering joints use.
To work out the basic angles and rod lengths I bought some 3/4" wood doweling, and rubber tubing that just slipped over it to simulate the joints. Since the single joints have a max working angle of about 35 degrees each, I used an angle finder to keep me in line. I could move the wood dowels around to show me clearances in various routings. It made it real easy to visualize the setup before I bought even one piece of hardware. With the 3 joints, I had to use a rod end to support the rod running down to the box, and it helped me place where that went, even using existing threaded holes in the frame.
For the box I bought a mount plate from BTB, and sourced the appropriate unit (late 60s Chevelle if memory serves) from a local classic car wrecking yard. Cut off the old home made plate and installed the new one as close to the crossmember as I could get it. I've also seen installs where the box was sticking into the hole on the frame, but I just got it tight. I didn't use a spud shaft, but assembled the box, joint, and long piece of steering rod outside the rig, fed it through the hole from the front, and then bolted the box to the frame. The joint lives inside the crossmember, but I can still see it, and somewhat get to it through one of the holes in the frame. If any of the other joints give me reason to worry, I'll probably unbolt the box and inspect, but they are all solid and will serve me for a long time.
I didn't install a slip joint, but at some point I will flex it hard and see what kind of movement I have.
I know I've probably missed a few points, and I can take some detailed pics of my install (as well as a shot of the delrin bushing I had made a an extra), just let me know.
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Hey Lefty,

Thanks for following up - I'd love to see how you routed it, if you wouldn't mind snapping some photos. I'm definitely going to try and do away with the spud shaft, and will also most likely be recessing the box into the frame - but it sounds like you went above and beyond some of the other setups I've seen. Would really like to see how it turned out!
 
I just wanted to make sure nobody is planning to use carriage bolts to mount their tow hooks as seen in the pic on page 1 of this thread.
.
Nice shiny new tow hooks mounted with carriage bolts, really ? That must have been just to tie it down on the trailer cause a person would have to be seriously skewed to think that was in any way acceptable to use that hardware for that application.

Carriage bolts mounting tow hooks is a recipe for death for the guy towing you

Even if they are the proper grade it just does not fly IMO.
 
I just wanted to make sure nobody is planning to use carriage bolts to mount their tow hooks as seen in the pic on page 1 of this thread..

Peesalot - not sure what you're getting at - only pictures on page 1 are mine and the tow hooks are held on by the usual nut/bolt combo. They will be getting swapped out regardless before this truck sees any real work... The only place I've used carriage bolts is to hold on the bumper...
 
Peesalot - not sure what you're getting at - only pictures on page 1 are mine and the tow hooks are held on by the usual nut/bolt combo. They will be getting swapped out regardless before this truck sees any real work... The only place I've used carriage bolts is to hold on the bumper...

I believe he was referring to my rig which is at the top of this page. Another PO mod! :bang: It was soon rectified with grade 8 bolts. You'll also notice the wire wrapped around the cross-member, it held the radiator mount in place. :bang::bang: Also soon rectified.

:cheers:
 
I believe he was referring to my rig which is at the top of this page. Another PO mod! :bang: It was soon rectified with grade 8 bolts. You'll also notice the wire wrapped around the cross-member, it held the radiator mount in place. :bang::bang: Also soon rectified.

:cheers:

You know, referring back to that picture made me notice something - your passenger side frame rail isn't boxed, at all...it's C-shaped. Is the non-boxed frame horn the stock configuration for all years? Mine is definitely boxed-in (you can see it in the shot of my bumper). Maybe I can chalk this up to the one thing done correctly by the PO.

In the meantime: Still would love some shots of how other 350 SBC folks ran their steering shafts.
 
You know, referring back to that picture made me notice something - your passenger side frame rail isn't boxed, at all...it's C-shaped. Is the non-boxed frame horn the stock configuration for all years? Mine is definitely boxed-in (you can see it in the shot of my bumper). Maybe I can chalk this up to the one thing done correctly by the PO.

In the meantime: Still would love some shots of how other 350 SBC folks ran their steering shafts.

Yup, neither of the front frame rails were boxed from the factory. Both of mine are now!

:cheers:
 
Another question about the steering column:

Everyone says that a "slip shaft" is important both to take flex off the box, and in the event of a crash. With the Borgeson telescoping setup - is the "telescoping" 3/4in DD into 1" DD function the same thing as a slip shaft, or is this a separate piece I'll need to add?

Is the telescoping function fixed in place once the proper length is determined, or will this continue to "telescope" after it is installed in the truck? Seems like the rubber boot implies this is continually moving...

In the "My Saginaw Power Steering Conversion" Thread I have been studying, it looks like he didn't have anything aside from the Telescoping shaft and the two U-joints. Just want to make sure this is still considered the "best" way to do it...
 
Check out the Sag steering shaft parts at Cruiser Outfitters. Kurt has a good kit of parts.

http://www.cruiseroutfitters.com/powersteering.html

Been there! I would really be interested in seeing how that entire setup is run. If it's a smaller diameter shaft where I'm passing the Ram's Horn, I'd be very interested in running it. Maybe I'll send him a PM for more info. I'll be buying most of my other components from him, most likely.

Still interested to know if the telescoping Borgeson shaft allows for enough "slip" when installed.
 
I don't have a photo of it at the moment, but I'll try to take some later today. The set-up clears the rams horn manifold on my centered 5.7l fine. If your engine is or is going to be offset, you'll need more u-joints.
 

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