Cracked 2F block-Should I weld?

[vtcruiser60]

Cracked 2F block-Should I weld?--Pics added

Fellas,

My overheating problem revealed itself as a cracked water jacket. I was losing coolant. I thought it was from the overflow tank.

The crack is about a foot long on the driverside, not obstructed by the EGR line or manifolds. There is a good welder in town that works on engine blocks, mounted or not. What would you recommend? Any experience out there welding blocks? Do the welds hold on these engines?

The engine has 89k, the vehicle is a stock 84 FJ60. Compression is 145 across all cylinders with no other oil leaks or issues.

4/24/05--Pictures added, crack is barely visible inside the red boxes. Note the rusty/coolant residue below the crack. The crack, to my naked eye, does not extend for 15 inches, but rather looks like two 6-8inch cracks.

 

[TexomaFJ40]

If he's a good welder and you don't want to replace the block, I would say yes. You still have good compression and weld is more of a stop loss. In reality, the weld should be stronger than the steel surrounding it, so you should be fine.

0.02

 

[jesterb]

I agree. What do you have to lose?

 

[Ian Rogers]

well by the time you pull the motor and take it down to the block you could of just found one on e-bay to re-build. When welding a cast block you need to pre-heat, and post-cool other wise you should not weld at all.

 

[Steve C]

I also vote for a new used engine. Why put time and money into one with issues when solid used blocks are available.

 

[toddslater]

What rogersfj said...I had a 64 1/2 Ford 289 hipo block "stiched" about 15 years ago and it's still doing well. If it wasn't an original matching numbers kind of situation on a piece that warranted such extreme measures....I would have plopped any good used hipo block in there.

 

[honk]

The crack is a foot long?? Damn, that's gonna' be difficult for any welder to put together. Most will probably advise first that you find another block, or second that it be stitched with overlapping plugs.
Where is it, exactly? I'd think that in most cases the freezeplugs would act as stop drill holes and limit the crack between them.

 

[vtcruiser60]

The pisser is that this is a used engine I purchased last summer, no returns. It is installed and it cost me about $400 to have it put in. I don't have the cash to pull it again and buy another shortblock. I bought the engine to replace the original with 217k that had just gone through its second head.

I phoned a machine shop here and spoke with the manager. He actually advised against welding and instead using an epoxy. I mean I can grind the block and clean it up for an epoxy, but will this really hold?

I do have another concern. If freezing water caused the jacket to expand and crack, would it have caused any other problems internally. I mean, expansion occurs uniformly, not in one direction....right?

 

[largenfirm]

I do have another concern. If freezing water caused the jacket to expand and crack, would it have caused any other problems internally. I mean, expansion occurs uniformly, not in one direction....right?

I'd be surprised if you didn't have other internal cracks, *if* the crack was caused by freezing.

OTOH, there are other reasons for blocks to crack, so if you are not seeing oil in your cooling system, or antifreeze in your oil, yours may have cracked for other reasons.

Given the situation, I'd investigate the options and try to save the block.

Kirk

 

[Mace]

Go get another block.. They are not expensive. probably about as much as having the block fixed (also there might be other issues with the block. It takes a lot to crack a cruiser block. )

 

[DIESEL40]

I've got a block if you want it for a case of beer. Might be expensive to ship up your way though. Do you have a forwardair near you?

 

[Pin_Head]

Try welding it. It might work and it is already cracked, so it won't get any worse.
Check it out:

http://www.muggyweld.com/castiron.html

 

[labartonmd]

Check out www.muggyweld.com DIY won't have to pull the motor, just need an acetylene torch, rods, and some of that cool pack stuff to keep the heat in one area. I have to qualify and say I haven't done this myself...yet,

 

[toddslater]

Here is a little write up from one of the sources googleable. http://www.promarengine.com/services.asp#services_4

Save yourself the heart ache...send diesel40 some cold ones and pay forwardair $75 to get it to you. If you paid someone $400 to put your engine in are you sure you want to attack it with an acetylene torch ???

 

[Pin_Head]

Don't gas weld it, arc weld it. If it is accessible, just weld it in place. With the right filler rod, you won't have to worry about preheat etc.

Extreme example:

http://www.muggyweld.com/karlcast.html

 

[PabloCruise]

Why did it crack?

Make sure you do not repeat the mistake...

 

[vtcruiser60]

Well it seems opinions vary.

I took the rig down to friend at the toyota dealer, he put it up on the lift for me and I got a better look. The crack runs about 12-13 inches, almost in a straight line about 2 inches above the oil pan, 3-4 inches above the freeze plugs. The EGR cooler and down pipe line would have to be removed for any repair. I suspect that the exhaust manifold/muffler down pipe would also need to be removed.

While there several other mechanics came over and also shook their head. Half of them thought it could be welded, others were suggesting JB weld epoxy. One mechanic said that I should use a radiator stop leak first, let it settle and harden. Then use epoxy. I asked them if the crack was due to freezing, would their be any other damage. They said no. But there are no warranties in opinions. Needless to say they took pity and didn't follow up on their comments with a bill for the diagnosis.....best part of the day.

I don't know why the crack appeared. I know that the engine ran hot from the moment it turned over this summer and I have been trying to diagnose the problem since then. What are the most common reasons for a water jacket to crack.

 

[PabloCruise]

I have not heard of many 2F blocks cracking, so I can't speculate about "common causes"

I am also not very experienced in these things.

That was why I was cautioning you to find out why... It would be a bummer to buy a new block and repeat.

 

[largenfirm]

"radiator stop leak"?

Don't let that hack work on your car!

Freezing is the #1 cause of cracked water jackets.

Given you have a history of a heat problem, perhaps a reverse flushing might give some clues?

Was this engine out of a wrecked vehicle?

Sounds like a likely candidate for "stitching", if you can find a practitioner of that ancient art. A quick google turns up this url, quite educational:

http://www.locknstitch.com/

Looks like they have a do-it-yourself kit, and that their c-series pins might be just the ticket...

No relationship, financial or otherwise.

Kirk

 

[Pin_Head]

All the ways of repairing it are worth a try. I have heard of people having good success with JB weld, but I haven't tried it. I have done the stitching pins in machine shop and while it is a PITA to do, it is an effective, permanent repair. I have heard of good results with welding with new alloy rods that can handle the metal shrinking without cracking.

My point is that repairing a good engine is worth a try. I might start with the Bars Leak and JB weld and if that won't hold, try the stitching pins or welding.