Anyone taken a frame apart? (1 Viewer)

[chesshircat]

I stripped down a 72 that i've had around for about 10 yrs. Trying to decide what to do. I'd like to get a new tub and do a restore but the frame bothers me. Its not too bad but i'm worried about the rust between where the sections of frame are rivited together. HOw have you guys stoped the rust between the sections of frame. Is it possibble to grind all the rivots off and completely dismantle the frame. WHat would you replace the riviots with. I assume the frame isn't welded together for a reason.

 

[Fast Eddy]

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/129028-rust-removal-using-electrolysis-large-scale.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-seri...emoval-method-xxx.html?highlight=electrolysis

 

[majojo4]

I did this last week because my rear bumper channel was so beat to heck, I am having a new channel fabricated. I cut all of the rivots off and punched them out. I didnt want to just have bolt heads showing so I have machined new bolt heads down to replicate rivots. They look awsome. If you ar interested in buying some rivot/bolts from me let me know. I will send them to you for cost.

 

[mminter1973]

Got any pics of the turned down bolts into rivet heads? I would like to see how they turned out.

 

[majojo4]

I will take some Pics today when i go into my shop. I havent put my new bumper on yet so it will be just pictures of the bolts only.

 

[Coolerman]

Buckroseau took apart of his FJ45 frame and used the turned bolt solution to make the rivets. Read about his rebuild here: https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/104821-3-days-3300-miles-later.html

 

[Downey]

As I recall, the only two vehicles that had a hot rivited frame were old army Jeeps and Landcruisers. The hot rivited frame is what lets them flex with the terrain, consequently they live 30-40 years longer than anything else. I doubt that joe-average-citizen is equipped to re-hot rivit his frame after disassembly. Once you weld or pinch-bolt, you've lost the advantage of a flexible frame (might as well own a Ford Bronco).

 

[mminter1973]

(might as well own a Ford Bronco).

I wouldnt go that far. I am sure there are many frames out there that have been strengthened by bracing or, ie.. v8 motor mounts, saginaw steering, doublers, rear tcase mount, etc... all of those options require you to weld the frame where two pieces were hot rivited at the factory?

 

[pb4ugo]

I've had issues where the PO(I call him, BUTCHER) welded the front cross member to the frame rails when he did the P/S conversion. Through the yrs, the frame & cross member started to crack near the welds because the welds did not allow the frame to flex. I knew this was going to be an issue along time ago, so when I scrapped an old frame, I removed the cross member. I recently swappped out that cross member using grade 8 fine thread bolts, & really torked them down then tacked the nuts to the bolts to take the place of the rivets. It seems to have worked very well. I didn't care what it looked like seeing it's the trail cruzer. FYI

As for machininng bolts heads to look like rivets, why don't you use button head socket cap screws?

 

[Downey]

I wouldnt go that far. I am sure there are many frames out there that have been strengthened by bracing or, ie.. v8 motor mounts, saginaw steering, doublers, rear tcase mount, etc... all of those options require you to weld the frame where two pieces were hot rivited at the factory?

I think many of us have welded accessories, etc. on our frames, but that does not keep the frame from being flexible. But total frame dissassembly and reassembly without hot riviting would result in loss of flexibility.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

As I recall, the only two vehicles that had a hot rivited frame were old army Jeeps and Landcruisers. The hot rivited frame is what lets them flex with the terrain, consequently they live 30-40 years longer than anything else. I doubt that joe-average-citizen is equipped to re-hot rivit his frame after disassembly. Once you weld or pinch-bolt, you've lost the advantage of a flexible frame (might as well own a Ford Bronco).

I understand about the flexing, but wouldn't button head socket cap screws, or the turned down bolts still leave enough flex?

What if this was not a trail rig, more a completely restored Sunday driver...you think the replaced "rivits/nuts" would still be a negative on the frame?

 

[pb4ugo]

I understand about the flexing, but wouldn't button head socket cap screws, or the turned down bolts still leave enough flex?

I think so, but i didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night!!!
I believe using bolts/BHSCS to replace rivits are as close as you can get to rivits. I used fine thread because there is more thread contact and allowed for more tork to be applied, then tacking them so they will not loosen.

I know welding is not an option!!!

 

[Tools R Us]

As I recall, the only two vehicles that had a hot rivited frame were old army Jeeps and Landcruisers. The hot rivited frame is what lets them flex with the terrain, consequently they live 30-40 years longer than anything else. I doubt that joe-average-citizen is equipped to re-hot rivit his frame after disassembly. Once you weld or pinch-bolt, you've lost the advantage of a flexible frame (might as well own a Ford Bronco).

Never seen a domestic frame, most of them are riveted. Most Bronco's are also riveted, the early short wheel base being the exception. Most Toyota truck frames are welded.

 

[Trollhole]

Could just have it hot dipped and be done with it and probably never have to worry about it ever again.

 

[My wife said no FJ!]

Hey Marshall, great idea but hang on...I'm looking at a '61 with a rotted inner frame, plus the guy cut the cross member when he dropped in a 1978 tranny and rear axle. If this rig ends up at my place, then I want to split the old inner frame out, and splice in a less rotted inner frame from another early 40.

Might sound retarded, but this way I will save the original frame and engine, and have a much stronger base to completely restore the '61...and unlike JP's '62, this one would not see any hard trails after she's done.

So...any more info on removing those rivets would be great, cause right now my guess is that my only option would be button head socket bolts.

Anyone know where one can find original type rivets...and how to install them...just curious?

 

[fj40forlife]

haha welded the whole frame. come on how much flex are you going to get from the frame? plus I hate when you like in a trail and you cant even open the door for all this "Frame flex" Im not cutting the rivets on mine but welding alot of the frame. and boxing the rear. I let the suspension do the suspension job.

 

[antFJ]

haha welded the whole frame. come on how much flex are you going to get from the frame? plus I hate when you like in a trail and you cant even open the door for all this "Frame flex" Im not cutting the rivets on mine but welding alot of the frame. and boxing the rear. I let the suspension do the suspension job.

true. it doesn't flex much - the problem is that steel WILL flex no matter what under stress which as others have mentioned before can be a problem for areas that have been welded - basically there will be a higher chance for the frame to crack in some areas.. the severity of it might not even be a big deal but with an old frame to begin with you might be welding some cracks at already weakened areas

 

[chesshircat]

As I recall, the only two vehicles that had a hot rivited frame were old army Jeeps and Landcruisers. The hot rivited frame is what lets them flex with the terrain, consequently they live 30-40 years longer than anything else. I doubt that joe-average-citizen is equipped to re-hot rivit his frame after disassembly. Once you weld or pinch-bolt, you've lost the advantage of a flexible frame (might as well own a Ford Bronco).

Downey, this thing would just be a grocery getter, no off road. Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't a torqued bolt serve the same purpose as a rivot? Its not like there were a couple of japs on the assembly line with a coleman stove and a hammer, those rivots were put on with some sort of hydroullic pressing tool right? They should be crazy tight. I'm over here on the other side of the pond from you so i've got alot of rust between the sections and i'm affraid this is the only way to stop it. Or maybe this would be way too much work anyway, I'm just trying to find my options. Thanks for the response

 

[majojo4]

OK...here is a camera phone picture of the rivot bolts that I have macined down. This is a 10mm bolt. after the nut and lock washer are put in place hand tight, I will snatch the threaded tip with channel locks to prevent it from spinning while the nut and lock washer are doing their job to get torqued. the remaining threades will be cut off. I might put a tack weld in place to ensure it never backs out. You dont want to use buton head sockets or carrage bolts.. they will look like a weak attempt to look factory. Thes rivot bolts ive made and am putting on mine do look factory. I can tell you how i did it or you can just send me some cash for some. I'll do them for my cost.

 

[fj40forlife]

about how much would some cost. maybe a ball park prices. you could pm if you want