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Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Even the later model 80s have only a partial implementation of the OBDII protocol. If I was going to the effort you are planning, I'd buld up my own protocol list from the available sensor outputs you have available to you. The ist isn't going to be very long, even though it'll be much more robust than the OEM 80 had.
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- #23
All good here in BC
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- #24
Yes I think no OBD will be fine.
on another note; I just realized that all the aftermarket ecu‘s all have built in cruise control as long as you are using DBW, so that is what I will use, even if I don’t go the full rout.
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- #25
I actually don’t think this will be quite as hard as I first thought as I will use much of the standard wiring, as long as it is in good shape. There seem to be no stock systems I will need due to aftermarket contrllers I want to use anyways.
I will be deleting so much wiring by using PDM‘s and redundant wiring, as opposed to relays, as the relays basically have so much more wiring.
this is gonna be fun. When I get around to doing I will lay out the COMPLETE stock and connected wiring harness on the floor, blow up the Toyota wiring pages and tape together, as they are to hard to view going back a forth in pages, and get started.
The Toyota EWD's are very easy to use.
I think you will find that once you familiarize yourself with how the EWD's work you won't need to change a thing or blow up any pages. A sticky note or two is handy for marking commonly used pages like the main connector pinouts towards the beginning.
I think you will find that once you familiarize yourself with how the EWD's work you won't need to change a thing or blow up any pages. A sticky note or two is handy for marking commonly used pages like the main connector pinouts towards the beginning.
The circuit breakers are interesting. Is there a way to track faults and reset breakers with a in-cab display or app? That would be great on the trail.
The biggest thing for me, if doing such a job, is not fuses but the quality of wiring.
The gauge and wire housing materials. I know nowadays auto insulation is soy-based.
I'm unsure on the durability, attracting animals and just how robust the wiring is in general.
Anyway, something to prioritize, imo.
The biggest thing for me, if doing such a job, is not fuses but the quality of wiring.
The gauge and wire housing materials. I know nowadays auto insulation is soy-based.
I'm unsure on the durability, attracting animals and just how robust the wiring is in general.
Anyway, something to prioritize, imo.
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- #28
if you are using a PDM and aftermarket electronic dash you can get all faults and diagnostics on screen. Wiring jobs, of course need to be top notch with good materials. Soy based lets rats and mice want to eat them. I know this from Mexico, they have ruined many cars there!
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
You can get petroleum based insulation if you ask for it. Sumitomo advertises both.
I don't know a good source for quality wire. Is Sumitomo one of the 'go to' places?
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Sumitomo is the Toyota OEM. As soon as I find a domestic source, I'll take out an ad...
Hey there! Came back to the forum after a while now since I am also in the endeavour of installing a Standalone ECU to my 96 FZJ80 and came across your thread. My ambition are nowhere near as “pure” as yours though lol.
I’m going Standaolne for efficiency basically. Overhaul the the whole ignition and EFI. Remove the distributor, install 6 independent coils, MAF delete, sequential or semi sequential spark/spray. It should add reliability (I hate the distributor, we do a lot of wet mudding) and a whole lot of fuel economy to better roll with my Diesel buddies.
In a few days when I receive my ECU (Fueltech FT550) I will probably make a build thread. I think we can help each other along the way, going through the obstacles (the gearbox seems to be going to be a pain). By the way I’m neither a mechanic nor an electrical engineer like you, just an ethusiast who’s been modding my cars for about 15 years. But I’ll input whatever I can.
I’m going Standaolne for efficiency basically. Overhaul the the whole ignition and EFI. Remove the distributor, install 6 independent coils, MAF delete, sequential or semi sequential spark/spray. It should add reliability (I hate the distributor, we do a lot of wet mudding) and a whole lot of fuel economy to better roll with my Diesel buddies.
In a few days when I receive my ECU (Fueltech FT550) I will probably make a build thread. I think we can help each other along the way, going through the obstacles (the gearbox seems to be going to be a pain). By the way I’m neither a mechanic nor an electrical engineer like you, just an ethusiast who’s been modding my cars for about 15 years. But I’ll input whatever I can.
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
This is a major undertaking to essentially remake what Toyota spent years of countless engineering hours and millions if not billions of dollars developing. I love wiring too bud, I've got all sorts of electronics in my rig, but why do you want to redo all of this work? Are you going to make your own factory service manual and electrical wiring diagrams too?
Yall are saying you want to improve reliability but you will likely never achieve the reliability of a properly maintained factory-wired vehicle. I swear this is one of those hair-brain ideas that ends up 2 years later with a ripped-apart cruiser sold for parts & spares because it's been completely hacked up.
Circuit breakers are a TERRIBLE idea btw these are the issues just off the top of my head as to why:
I am extremely competent in wiring, I've touched every inch of every wire loom in the 80 series, from behind the dash, in the ceiling, under the car, back to the hatch to the engine bay, I know all of it... I have created my own AUX harness with color-coded wires, Deutsch connectors, professional crimp splices, high quality loom etc. all of that goes to a second underhood factory toyota fuse block that I repinned to house all the relays and fuses for all of my AUX devices. The power feeding that fuse block goes through a fusible link to the battery. I even made my own EWD for this harness in the event I ever needed to troubleshoot or modify it. I did everything the way Mr. T did because I wanted it all to be uniform to the factory spec. I've tested and read the logic of almost every module in this rig; ECU, TCU, ABS, Cruise Control Brain, CDL brain, Shift Lock ECU, etc etc via my oscilloscope & multi-meter.
Based on my knowledge & experience I would urge you to really consider what you are looking at taking on. Because it sounds like in the end, after hundreds of hours of work & thousand or so dollars in materials, the car will be roughly the same and that's ONLY IF you did everything right. The control systems in these vehicles are very simple and that's why they are so robust. If you are having reliability issues then you need to track down the issue and replace the faulty part.
Yall are saying you want to improve reliability but you will likely never achieve the reliability of a properly maintained factory-wired vehicle. I swear this is one of those hair-brain ideas that ends up 2 years later with a ripped-apart cruiser sold for parts & spares because it's been completely hacked up.
Circuit breakers are a TERRIBLE idea btw these are the issues just off the top of my head as to why:
- Voltage Drop across the breaker: they suffer from voltage drop across them, which basically adds additional load to your circuit so if you don't size your wiring with this in mind you can create a situation where you begin to heat up wires.
- Electrical Arcing: When the breaker opens there will be an arc, this over time damages the contact and reduces the quality of the contact area basically adding more resistance to your circuit and ultimately causing the circuit to fail. Electrical Arcs also pose a fire risk a tripping breaker could ignite a fire if there are fuel vapors around, ask a handful of mudders about charcoal canister issues and then you might see that this is a valid concern)
- Weld Close Situation; Even though it's rare, breakers can weld themselves closed if too much current passes through them before the bimetallic spring heats up enough to try and open the contacts. This negates the circuit protection feature of the breaker
- Mechanical Device: Unlike a fuse, breakers have moving parts and over time, their operation degrades. Because of this breakers have a life span, and require constant maintenance (we call it exercising) to ensure they are operable. Breakers don't belong on a vehicle subjected to the elements (especially corrosive environments)
I am extremely competent in wiring, I've touched every inch of every wire loom in the 80 series, from behind the dash, in the ceiling, under the car, back to the hatch to the engine bay, I know all of it... I have created my own AUX harness with color-coded wires, Deutsch connectors, professional crimp splices, high quality loom etc. all of that goes to a second underhood factory toyota fuse block that I repinned to house all the relays and fuses for all of my AUX devices. The power feeding that fuse block goes through a fusible link to the battery. I even made my own EWD for this harness in the event I ever needed to troubleshoot or modify it. I did everything the way Mr. T did because I wanted it all to be uniform to the factory spec. I've tested and read the logic of almost every module in this rig; ECU, TCU, ABS, Cruise Control Brain, CDL brain, Shift Lock ECU, etc etc via my oscilloscope & multi-meter.
Based on my knowledge & experience I would urge you to really consider what you are looking at taking on. Because it sounds like in the end, after hundreds of hours of work & thousand or so dollars in materials, the car will be roughly the same and that's ONLY IF you did everything right. The control systems in these vehicles are very simple and that's why they are so robust. If you are having reliability issues then you need to track down the issue and replace the faulty part.
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Some people’s perceived hell and insanity is others joy. Many ways to reach your nose with one’s fingers. Looks like this one has the close to impossible route. Have fun. Send us a video of the unedited first start 
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
Are you using a program to keep track of the wire runs, colors & purpose to build your final EWD?
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- #36
From what I have read you are not likely to achieve much mileage Improvement with these mods, perhaps 2 mpg. But still worth it. I am a long ways off from starting my endeavour yet.
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- #37
I haven’t started yet, if, or when I do I will probably use some type of xls and diagrams
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- #38
I agree with some of your comments. I will be using PDM not circuit breakers, if they are good enough for race cars I think they will likely be very reliable, and also much better for diagnostics
I realize this is crazy, and I may not even do it complete, my goal is to make it even simpler. I just like doing stuff, doesn’t matter if it is crazy. I am probably a year our before I even start this part of my project
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- #39
If you go this route you should probably consider an aftermarket TCU
SmokingRocks
hopelessly addicted to Cruisers
Race cars are rebuilt regularly, some after each race, depends on the class. Just seems like you are dead set on ditching a proven KISS design that's already solid state (fuse) to upgrade to a 'solid state' pdm. I don't think you'll get better diagnostics than the 1000+ page FSM with detailed troubleshooting test & procedures already called out in it that's designed around the wiring harness & components you already have. But rather I think you'll be chasing a bunch of new self inflicted issues, you'll pull your hair out till two weeks later you find the problem is a poor crimp on a barrel pin inside of a Deutsch connector. Ask me how I know.
I mean don't let me discourage you I'm just perplexed as to the reasonings, and am trying to understand. I'll get my popcorn out.
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