Why no diesel swaps in 100 series LC’s?? (1 Viewer)

[mdcoa]

Resurrecting this just because I ended up on the diesel forum this a.m.

Swaps on a modern gasser are tough from a regulatory perspective, moreso in some states than in others. What others have said about same year or newer is true in many states, but I didn't see anyone say "same year or newer _U.S-legal_," which is critical, since it means that in states that actually care you cannot do this swap, as Toyota hasn't made a US legal diesel in a long time (ever?)--imho you're way better off waiting for a 25 year-old EPA/DOT exempt import. But I shudder to think what the price tags on a clean, manual-transmission 105 will be. Possibly still less than getting a clean 100 and all the bits for the swap and labor and, ironically perhaps, clearly more legal in 49 states.

But maybe the Cummins 4 cylinder repower could be done legally? Although I think it's only legal for 99 or older, IIRC . . .

 

[Feistl]

The super annoying/stupid part from Toyota is (at least here in Australia) the 100 series got the 1HDFTE but isn’t very good off-road, but the 105 series with solid front axle only got the 1HZ. They were sooo close to making the perfect cruiser but for some reason didn’t....

I know you guys like to keep things Toyota, but I can’t help but feel a swap to something more common would be easier in the long run.

And just FYI, there are plenty of people who have swapped the 1HDFTE into the 105 here in Aus, in fact there was a clean and tidy one for sale a few weeks ago for $26k AUD. I very nearly jumped on it at that price...

So if you were patient that would be the one to import.

 

[mdcoa]

The super annoying/stupid part from Toyota is (at least here in Australia) the 100 series got the 1HDFTE but isn’t very good off-road, but the 105 series with solid front axle only got the 1HZ. They were sooo close to making the perfect cruiser but for some reason didn’t....

I know you guys like to keep things Toyota, but I can’t help but feel a swap to something more common would be easier in the long run.

And just FYI, there are plenty of people who have swapped the 1HDFTE into the 105 here in Aus, in fact there was a clean and tidy one for sale a few weeks ago for $26k AUD. I very nearly jumped on it at that price...

So if you were patient that would be the one to import.

I don’t think I realized that the 105 wasn’t available with a diesel—seems like such a no-brainer to pair the diesel with the super-utilitarian platform that it never occurred to me they’d only offer it with a straight-six gasoline engine.

I’ve heard in Land Rover circles that after a period of relative leniency, US customs became quite strict on imports and requires anything being brought in under the 25-year exemption be a factory configuration—so no Series IIIs with a 300Tdi someone’s fitted. Therefore unlikely one would be able to import a 105 that’s been diesel converted. Which is kind of a relief to me, as I would really, really want to own one.

 

[Feistl]

The 105 was offered with a diesel, just the 1HZ only... the 1HD-FTE was only in the 100 series.

The 1HZ is ok... but not brilliant. I’d take a 12HT from the 1980s over a 1HZ from the 2000s. So seems a little strange that a HJ61 has a better engine than the 105 series...

 

[mdcoa]

The 105 was offered with a diesel, just the 1HZ only... the 1HD-FTE was only in the 100 series.

The 1HZ is ok... but not brilliant. I’d take a 12HT from the 1980s over a 1HZ from the 2000s. So seems a little strange that a HJ61 has a better engine than the 105 series...

Apparently I should’ve done some research.
Had it in my head that you were talking about the six-cylinder gasoline engine we got here in the 80 series and didn’t even bother to look it up—drrr. Had a friend here with a 1HDT that was just amazing—have heard the FTEs are great. Odd that they didn’t offer that in the 105–would be interesting to know what their thinking was.

 

[TonyP]

The 105 was offered with a diesel, just the 1HZ only... the 1HD-FTE was only in the 100 series.

The 1HZ is ok... but not brilliant. I’d take a 12HT from the 1980s over a 1HZ from the 2000s. So seems a little strange that a HJ61 has a better engine than the 105 series...

The FTE was also in the 70 Series.

 

[mudgudgeon]

have heard the FTEs are great. Odd that they didn’t offer that in the 105–would be interesting to know what their thinking was.

The 105 series was like an afterthought in between the 80 series and 100 series IFS.

The HZJ105 was a bit of a red headed step child. It was given the 1HZ engine and lighter duty manual gearbox, and different tcase too.

It was essentially a 100 series body on an improved 80 series frame.
Its like they started developing a new model, then gave up, but had to put something out in the market before the IFS 100series was released.
The 100 series was the start of IFS, 2uz and 1hdfte all a couple of years after the 105 series was released with a choice of 1HZ or 1fzfe

 

[mjosoba]

If I ever import a non US spec LC, I think it would have to be an HZJ105. Love those things.

 

[SNLC]

FTE swaps do take a bunch of work to sort out but are not that bad if you have all the right people to make the puzzle work.

By that I mean the parts supply, the wiring guy and the experience tuning and doing upgrades on the engines.

There are a number of differences between the IFS FTE and the FTE put in the 78/79’s in Australia. Oil pan being one but also the p/s pump. In fact the IFS FTEs runs a different p/s pump and vacuum pump. All the timing case gears are different as well and you can’t just install the p/s pump from the 78/79’s without changing out all the timing gears too.

We have an FTE swap going right now in an 80-series in the shop. This is a brand new FTE long block. We also have an FTE going in a 75-series Troopy that’s on an 80-series chassis. We also have two FT swaps and builds going. We have been playing with these engines a lot this last year.

Cheers

 

[wedgetail]

FTE swaps do take a bunch of work to sort out but are not that bad if you have all the right people to make the puzzle work.

By that I mean the parts supply, the wiring guy and the experience tuning and doing upgrades on the engines.

There are a number of differences between the IFS FTE and the FTE put in the 78/79’s in Australia. Oil pan being one but also the p/s pump. In fact the IFS FTEs runs a different p/s pump and vacuum pump. All the timing case gears are different as well and you can’t just install the p/s pump from the 78/79’s without changing out all the timing gears too.

We have an FTE swap going right now in an 80-series in the shop. This is a brand new FTE long block. We also have an FTE going in a 75-series Troopy that’s on an 80-series chassis. We also have two FT swaps and builds going. We have been playing with these engines a lot this last year.

Cheers

Yep it’s not hard - did it all myself into a 105, got a build thread here. Im not a specialist, just did thorough research. PS pump drives the early 105 (same as 80) box fine. I got rid of the vac pump - not needed in an ABS 105.

it certainly is one of the frustrating things that Toyota didn’t do it themselves. But a
Very doable swap that creates the best of the best

I doubt a customs importer could tell an fte swapped 105 wasn’t factory - 100s came fitted with them and they’re the same family, same age engine, all factory parts used. Very unlike a SIII wiven our strict governing bodies (that stop you fitting anything over a 33” tyre, or doing ANY chassis mods) accept an FTE can go into a 105 chassis without any issues.

 

[Indestructible 47]

Toyota did make a HDJ105, I believe. Very very limited units and I am told that they were specially make for a middle East government.

 

[l3n0x]

If IFS is good enough for the Dakar, it's good enough for me offroad (and the added comfort and extras of the 100 over the 105 is a big plus IMO)
I wouldn't want an 1HD-FTE over a V8 in the USA, that engine is a great engine & in most aspects better than the FTE. People think that the FTE is a bulletproof and undestructable engine, but in reality it has some serious flaws (and possible high $$$ breaking points). Yeah, on paper it looks decent, but reality tells differently. Mine just broke the TPS, and that means ~30kmh top speed & a $500 new pedal assembly (ofcourse they don't sell the sensor seperatly). +Thinking about issues with the FIP to say the least. My turbo is also on its last leg ($4500). I'd choose the 1HD-FT (or even the 2UZ) over it anytime.

 

[Indestructible 47]

If IFS is good enough for the Dakar, it's good enough for me offroad (and the added comfort and extras of the 100 over the 105 is a big plus IMO)
I wouldn't want an 1HD-FTE over a V8 in the USA, that engine is a great engine & in most aspects better than the FTE. People think that the FTE is a bulletproof and undestructable engine, but in reality it has some serious flaws (and possible high $$$ breaking points). Yeah, on paper it looks decent, but reality tells differently. Mine just broke the TPS, and that means ~30kmh top speed & a $500 new pedal assembly (ofcourse they don't sell the sensor seperatly). +Thinking about issues with the FIP to say the least. My turbo is also on its last leg ($4500). I'd choose the 1HD-FT (or even the 2UZ) over it anytime.

99% of the population will disagree with you here. What flaws are there with the FTE? I currently own 1 and have had others as well. The TPS issue is not FTE specific, in fact has nothing to do with the engine at all. Yes it goes into limp mode if it goes, but it will still run fine. The TPS issue can happen to any vehicle with a fly by wire pedal.

Also, if you are spending $4500 on a turbo for the FTE, you'd want it to be gold plated. The FTE is more or less exactly the same as the FT, other than the EFI. I'm not saying the UZ series engine is crap in any way, I just find you statements about the FTE to be highly inaccurate.

 

[wedgetail]

Toyota did make a HDJ105, I believe. Very very limited units and I am told that they were specially make for a middle East government.

Pretty sure they didn’t. This crops up occasionally and is quickly shut down - no one has ever been able to come up with a build plate, I’m quite confident the most official they ever got was possibly a dealer conversion or two

 

[wedgetail]

If IFS is good enough for the Dakar, it's good enough for me offroad (and the added comfort and extras of the 100 over the 105 is a big plus IMO)
I wouldn't want an 1HD-FTE over a V8 in the USA, that engine is a great engine & in most aspects better than the FTE. People think that the FTE is a bulletproof and undestructable engine, but in reality it has some serious flaws (and possible high $$$ breaking points). Yeah, on paper it looks decent, but reality tells differently. Mine just broke the TPS, and that means ~30kmh top speed & a $500 new pedal assembly (ofcourse they don't sell the sensor seperatly). +Thinking about issues with the FIP to say the least. My turbo is also on its last leg ($4500). I'd choose the 1HD-FT (or even the 2UZ) over it anytime.

Ha, bull sh*t. It’s normal to get 1m km plus from them here. Something almost unheard of in the V8s. And before you bring up the high mile US ones remember australian conditions (dust, heat, poor roads and long distances) are much harsher than US - nothing lasts as long. On paper FTE is mediocre - in practice it well truly lives up to its reputation of the best 4x4 engine ever made. If the V8 is so good, why aren’t there multiple groups and thousands of people putting them in everything from 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 105s, patrols, Jeeps, boats and more? Because the V8s aren’t as good. Why are people prepared to pay exorbitant prices for high km engines? Because FTEs are the best.

Because quite frankly no other engine offers the combo of high power potential, extreme reliability and longevity, smoothness, fuel economy, cool running and compact size. FT comes close but the VE pump lets it down as it needs a rebuild about every 300k, it’s common for FTEs to do 600k easy before pump work.

It has absolutely no serious flaws, even running 400rwhp consistently in 40*C+ ambients. So yours had a faulty TPS, not exactly a catastrophic failure - it probably just needed a good contact cleaning. And the V8 throttle pedal is just as likely to fail in just the same way.

The turbo is probably the shortest living component (short of timing belt) it’s true - but if you want any improvement in power it’s sensible to replace this anyway.

compared to the FT - the FTE has upgraded pistons, upgraded rods, improved air and coolant flow through the head, improved exhaust valves, better bracing on the block, higher fuel flow and pressure, higher power (and much higher potential) and better economy.

2UZ are great engines, but to try and claim they’re better than FTEs makes you look ill informed. Same with FTs to a lesser extent.

 

[l3n0x]

Ha, bull sh*t. It’s normal to get 1m km plus from them here. Something almost unheard of in the V8s. And before you bring up the high mile US ones remember australian conditions (dust, heat, poor roads and long distances) are much harsher than US - nothing lasts as long. On paper FTE is mediocre - in practice it well truly lives up to its reputation of the best 4x4 engine ever made. If the V8 is so good, why aren’t there multiple groups and thousands of people putting them in everything from 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 105s, patrols, Jeeps, boats and more? Because the V8s aren’t as good. Why are people prepared to pay exorbitant prices for high km engines? Because FTEs are the best.

Because quite frankly no other engine offers the combo of high power potential, extreme reliability and longevity, smoothness, fuel economy, cool running and compact size. FT comes close but the VE pump lets it down as it needs a rebuild about every 300k, it’s common for FTEs to do 600k easy before pump work.

It has absolutely no serious flaws, even running 400rwhp consistently in 40*C+ ambients. So yours had a faulty TPS, not exactly a catastrophic failure - it probably just needed a good contact cleaning. And the V8 throttle pedal is just as likely to fail in just the same way.

The turbo is probably the shortest living component (short of timing belt) it’s true - but if you want any improvement in power it’s sensible to replace this anyway.

compared to the FT - the FTE has upgraded pistons, upgraded rods, improved air and coolant flow through the head, improved exhaust valves, better bracing on the block, higher fuel flow and pressure, higher power (and much higher potential) and better economy.

2UZ are great engines, but to try and claim they’re better than FTEs makes you look ill informed. Same with FTs to a lesser extent.

Ok, sorry. I thought we were talking about reliability/durability without replacing/refurbishing expensive items or opening up the block. You could buy a complete used 2UZ in the USA for the price of an FTE FIP, or even the price of a factory turbo. Hell you could probably buy a complete LX470/LC over there for the price of an FTE FIP.
It might be different in Australia, but here in Europe not many places can rebuild these pumps (I think there are like 3 in total & costs around 2-3k to do so), and it doesn't help that contrary to the FT, Toyota doesn't sell invidual parts for the FTE pump.

The 2UZ has a cable operated throttle (butterfly), and the TPS on that (on the throttle body) costs half the FTE's - it also has more power, especially the vvti one.

But hey, if you're an FTE fan I can understand that. They're good diesel engines when all is well with them. I wish you the best to never experience when they go south.

 

[wedgetail]

Ok, sorry. I thought we were talking about reliability/durability without replacing/refurbishing expensive items or opening up the block. You could buy a complete used 2UZ in the USA for the price of an FTE FIP, or even the price of a factory turbo. Hell you could probably buy a complete LX470/LC over there for the price of an FTE FIP.
It might be different in Australia, but here in Europe not many places can rebuild these pumps (I think there are like 3 in total & costs around 2-3k to do so), and it doesn't help that contrary to the FT, Toyota doesn't sell invidual parts for the FTE pump.

The 2UZ has a cable operated throttle (butterfly), and the TPS on that (on the throttle body) costs half the FTE's - it also has more power, especially the vvti one.

But hey, if you're an FTE fan I can understand that. They're good diesel engines when all is well with them. I wish you the best to never experience when they go south.

I didn’t mention opening the block - if an FTE engine needs opening someone or a bunch of people have made a lot of big mistakes. They’re much more hardy than a 2UZ block (statistically speaking in Australia) - as i said you should expect to exceed 1m km without touching the core. I also never mentioned rebuilding the pump until at least 600k - by which time a 2UZ is up for rebuild/replacement anyway as are most petrols. If repairs to the IP are needed - Toyota may not sell parts individually but the manufacturer Denso, does. A lot of people are still on their original untouched pumps at 800k anyway, well past 2UZ life.

I do stand corrected on the TPS of a 2UZ, I was mixing it up with another motor. Regardless, my other points regarding it in relation to the FTE still stand.

On your last point - the reason I have thrown my lot in with the FTE is specifically so things never do go south, which so long as I do my part I’m confident they won’t. I wouldn’t feel so confident driving a UZJ100 for the rest of my life.

 

[l3n0x]

I didn’t mention opening the block - if an FTE engine needs opening someone or a bunch of people have made a lot of big mistakes. They’re much more hardy than a 2UZ block (statistically speaking in Australia) - as i said you should expect to exceed 1m km without touching the core. I also never mentioned rebuilding the pump until at least 600k - by which time a 2UZ is up for rebuild/replacement anyway as are most petrols. If repairs to the IP are needed - Toyota may not sell parts individually but the manufacturer Denso, does. A lot of people are still on their original untouched pumps at 800k anyway, well past 2UZ life.

I do stand corrected on the TPS of a 2UZ, I was mixing it up with another motor. Regardless, my other points regarding it in relation to the FTE still stand.

On your last point - the reason I have thrown my lot in with the FTE is specifically so things never do go south, which so long as I do my part I’m confident they won’t. I wouldn’t feel so confident driving a UZJ100 for the rest of my life.

I don’t understand how these engines do 1M, when the turbo, fip and whatever very expensive (more expensive than a complete 2uz engine) parts need replacement before that.

 

[wedgetail]

I don’t understand how these engines do 1M, when the turbo, fip and whatever very expensive (more expensive than a complete 2uz engine) parts need replacement before that.

They get replaced - and the fuel savings between the two more than pay for them. An exchange pump here is about $3k (can usually get them cheaper), even brand new from Toyota they’re about $3.5k. Cheaper and easier than a good quality rebuild on a 2UZ. Good low km original turbos run about $250-300, but decent upgrade turbos that give better power and economy run 1500-2500. A lot, but over the life of the engine still cheaper than owning a petrol. Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of the 1m+ engines were still on original pumps anyway - they last far longer than the straight mechanical pumps like on the FT

 

[wedgetail]

Being generous to the 2UZ, and stingy to the FTE, let’s say there’s 3 L/100km between them (mostly it’s a bigger difference, certainly way more when towing). Over 600k km that’s 18k litres of fuel saved, that’s going to buy a lot of fuel pumps and turbos. Then the fact the core engine of the 2UZ won’t last anywhere near as long as FTE (probably won’t even out last an FTE pump) makes it much cheaper to own