Why does my 22re engine rattle...sound like a diesel (1 Viewer)

[mohamLC]

Yes if the guide brakes then the chain will most likely start to rub on the timing cover, let it go too long and it will eat into the water pump passageways. Metal guide were used on the early 22R engines(????) I know my 86 had plastic guides, when I rebuilt the engine is used metal guides, pretty sure the metal guid is on the passenger side.

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I don't understand all this hype about the metal guides. Guides are designed to limit vibration noises and to stop initial rubbing on cold start ups not to remove slack from chain that's the tensioner's job. So, when the chain expands beyond specs it is time to replace it wither you have metal or OEM guides. At least with OEM you will start hearing rattling noises warning you to pay attention to the problem. While with metal you wont and you will only know when your chain breaks from excessive slack or jump a tooth. And to think that even if the guides are broken that a chain within specs will cut the cover so quickly is hilarious. I have driven 30k miles on broken driver side guide with loud start-up rattling and chain never broke nor cut through to water jacket. When I finally replaced the chain it only put small marks on the cover not even 1mm deep and I am still using the same cover as of today.

Mater of fact I think Toyota designed the plastic OEM and the single chain as a fix for the OLD metal 20r guides and the high drag dual row timing chain and not to cut cost on something of that importance. Toyota ran the 22r line up with plastic guides for 11 years before ending its production. I think they know a thing or two about engine building. The reliability of the 22R came from Toyota not LC engineering ect....

 

[KLF]

And to think that even if the guides are broken that a chain within specs will cut the cover so quickly is hilarious.

You won't think it's so hilarious when it happens to you and you milkshake your engine.

I think you're expecting a lot of the general public to be able to tell when their chain is stretched and needs replaced.

I'll stick with my metal guides, thankyouverymuch.

 

[EVILSPOTTER]

Also must consider that we do not all use our engines as directed. Toyota says that severe engine damage is likely to occur above 5500 rpm. In my experience this is usually a plastic guide failure. Mine usually make a sawing noise, but hold together long enough to get back to the trailer on their own. With steel guides and head studs my pick-up & 4runner regularly see 7000 rpm.

 

[EVILSPOTTER]

You won't think it's so hilarious when it happens to you and you milkshake your engine.

I think you're expecting a lot of the general public to be able to tell when their chain is stretched and needs replaced.

I'll stick with my metal guides, thankyouverymuch.

I just realized what KLF meant here, and he is absolutely correct. With new plastic guides and a brand new chain from lcengineering I milkshaked the stroker with about 1500 miles on it. At high rpm the chain does engage the guides, and once they are gone the timing cover.

 

[flash02]

Thinking out loud, but perhaps there is an oil pressure issue in regards to the timing chain tension. Those of you who are going for high TQ and RPM my want to, if not already done so, go for a stiffer oil pressure relief spring. Let's not forget that oil pressure is what drives the tensioner against the chain.

Another thought....is there a timing chain preload that is not being addressed? If the preload is not done correctly then there is excessive slack in the chain which would account for all the broken guides. The FSM is pretty straight forward in regards to timing chain install, I don't recall anything other then setting the crank, cam and chain alignment points.

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[EVILSPOTTER]

I didn't mean to suggest that there is a problem with plastic for a well maintained properly used engine. What I meant was that in my experience steel guides are far superior in strength and service life.
Also back to the issue of noisy 2XR engines, I am changing a head right now for a guy that decided to adjust his valves until they were quiet. Burned all four exhaust valves so bad that the stem seals turned black and started to shed chunks. Right before he did this he had a good mechanic that I know adjust his valves because he thought they were ticking.

 

[pappy]

I don't understand all this hype about the metal guides.

I can tell you, that from practical experience, you are dead wrong. I ran a 22R with metal guides for a ton of miles. Never had a timing chain issue because the steel guides stayed in one piece. Yes, they were probably worn past spec, but they held together.

My 22RE was another story. By 200K the guides finally broke apart and the chain cut into the timing cover, entering a water jacket. Yep, oil in the radiator. I have no idea what Toyota was thinking with the plastic guides. But I can tell you that folks with the older engines and steel guides did not have the same problem.

I need to replace a head gasket on the ol' 22RE and I will take a look at my guides. They are steel with 150K on them. I might even pull the cover off and snap a few pics. I think 150K is a good test to see how they are holding up.

 

[mohamLC]

OK Point taken but you guys missed my point . OEM Double row chain setup is the ultimate most reliable setup out there no argument here. On my Nissan Patrol it ran to 430k/km with out an issue and then without any warnings it broke destroying my engine. On the other hand my single OEM timing chain setup on a my standard 22r lasted me to 350k/km of hard work when it started rattling warning me to change my chain or else. So its really not as bad and troublesome as some would make you believe. Just change the chain with OEM parts when you hear rattling on start ups and life is good. Some people on the other hand explains it like plastic guides break in 1 weak of use then timing chain eats the cover in another week and your screwed. All I am saying its not that bad

 

[Mr1jim]

Another option to control chain rattle on the 22R: