Why do people get rock sliders, but not skid plates?

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

If our sheet metal is as thick/strong as those brackets, then great! From installing it, it does not feel like car sheet metal...but i am a neophyte when it comes to these things.

I have enough fabrication experience to know that in this application (heavy vehicle, lots of potential for force) if my goal was to keep these from hitting the body I'd have much thicker steel for those brackets. @VooDoo2 brings up a GREAT point.. ARB is one of the few manufacturers that really takes Toyota's OE crash test standards into account when designing these things, and doesn't want to either take the liability or imperil the vehicle occupants to anything other than what toyota designed.

To that end.. frankly, my gut is that budbuilt stuff is stronger than it really needs to be.. but in this application, with "rock sliders" being the label, that is what I'd prefer my "protection" to be. Over built. Yes, these trucks are heavy. Anything that can be done to lighten the final setup is a good goal to work toward, but with regard to sliders at least the weight is low and sprung, minimizing handling/offroading drawbacks and "putting the weight where it will do the most good".

Maybe one day someone will go overboard with engineering sliders that provide the perfect combination of attachment, convenience, strength (without overpowering the frame rail), materials, weight, etc. But I'd expect these to be $$$$. For now, if you need "protection", look for "sliders." If you need steps, and very minor protection that fits the wheeling environment of places like Australia (as whoever pointed out, sorry I've had too many Hazy IPA's to go back and look and successfully navigate back here), the ARBs are a high quality and attractive option. With my propensity for Colorado rocks, and frankly not enough experience to avoid the problem ones.. I like my Metal Techs a lot.

It's funny how our perspectives of metal thickness is.

The OEM frame is rarely are over 3/16" gauge. With sheet metal like 1/8 in more places than not. Some places are folded over or stacked where additional strength may be needed. With advanced design and manufacturing, OEMs optimize weight with strength greatly increased from geometry used to its advantage. Versus flat square shapes that are commonly used in the aftermarket and material gauge used to increase strength. I do agree that material gauge is sometimes necessary for increased impact robustness in commonly hit areas.

Great points.. and all part of an engineered system. Any change to that system (sliders, steps, etc) can throw things off.

Sometimes I feel like we should all just be towing buggies to the trails. Then I think about having AC and ventilated seats.....
 
I took it as showing the light gauge steel construction that would bend if used seriously off road

What @bloc said.

If someone isn’t familiar with real sliders, it might not be obvious...but If we post shots of the mounting systems on proper sliders like BudBuilt, Slee or MetalTech, and the sheer massiveness of them in comparison, the difference would be clear.
 
What @bloc said.

If someone isn’t familiar with real sliders, it might not be obvious...but If we post shots of the mounting systems on proper sliders like BudBuilt, Slee or MetalTech, and the sheer massiveness of them in comparison, the difference would be clear.

Also, how flush the brackets and arms are for rock sliders. In the pic VooDoo provided of ARB steps, the bracket hangs lower than the frame rail (catch point). Also the arms that go out to the step are not straight they have a bend that goes down then up giving more catch points instead of being able to just slide over rocks
 
Also, how flush the brackets and arms are for rock sliders. In the pic VooDoo provided of ARB steps, the bracket hangs lower than the frame rail (catch point). Also the arms that go out to the step are not straight they have a bend that goes down then up giving more catch points instead of being able to just slide over rocks

This is true about not sliding over a rockledge. The bracket hangs down same level as skidplates/crossmember...not any lower.

I believe that ARB is lighter in weight mostly in part because it does not have the middle section (under the sill) for sliding over a rock. The “steps” are directly connected to the frame (via bracket). Most other sliders have 3 sections...bracket connects to “slider” then to the outer tube/steps. ARB does not have that middle part...which may be why it is lighter in weight...and the fact that it uses thinner metal but larger diameter tubing (thus maintaining rigidity).
 
Last edited:
This is true about not sliding over a rockledge. The bracket hangs down same level as skidplates/crossmember...not any lower.

I believe that ARB is lighter in weight mostly in part because it does not have the middle section (under the sill) for sliding over a rock. The “steps” are directly connected to the frame (via bracket). Most other sliders have 3 sections...bracket connects to “slider” then to the outer tube/steps. ARB does not have that middle part...which may be why it is lighter in weight...and the fact that it uses thinner metal but larger diameter tubing.
I looked back at a good picture and saw one you posted and see what you're saying. The issue though is when there are big rocks you can't avoid you climb them, so your frame rail would be the first point of contact not the cross member where it hangs low in the center. I circled points that look as the parts that would get smashed up and hang you up on rocks on one of your photos. If you look at BudBuilt, MetalTech, White Knuckle sliders they are flush as possible with frame rail and the arms that go out to the slider do not bend down they are straight and angled up.
1601650213111.png


Where for my White Knuckle Sliders the bar circled in yellow is the lowest point in the system. So nothing can hang me up when sliding on rocks.
1601650524229.png
 
I looked back at a good picture and saw one you posted and see what you're saying. The issue though is when there are big rocks you can't avoid you climb them, so your frame rail would be the first point of contact not the cross member where it hangs low in the center. I circled points that look as the parts that would get smashed up and hang you up on rocks on one of your photos. If you look at BudBuilt, MetalTech, White Knuckle sliders they are flush as possible with frame rail and the arms that go out to the slider do not bend down they are straight and angled up.
View attachment 2453107

Where for my White Knuckle Sliders the bar circled in yellow is the lowest point in the system. So nothing can hang me up when sliding on rocks.
View attachment 2453121

The brackets are designed that way (i think!) is to protect the frame bolts from off-road damage. That way, there is no chance of damaging the bolts when going over something because the bracket is slightly lower than the frame bolts. On your slider, is there a chance that those screws on the bottom get strip/damage since they are pointed down?

On ARB, the “bent” arms from the bracket is probably at same level as the “yellow” part of your slider. And i checked, for something to damage the sill with the ARB, the rock has to be pointy because the outer tube sits lower than the door sill...and i do have aluminum plate just above the slider to further protect the sill (not much protection mind you but still a layer). So, the sill is protected by the “arms” and the outer tube just in case you have to slide over a rock ledge...but again, as you rightly pointed out, it won’t be a smooth slide.
 
On your slider, is there a chance that those screws on the bottom get strip/damage since they are pointed down?

Yes, if I were to slide off the rock where it came inside the wheel and had to slide on the frame rail instead of the bar I circled in yellow those bolts would suffer.
 
I looked back at a good picture and saw one you posted and see what you're saying. The issue though is when there are big rocks you can't avoid you climb them, so your frame rail would be the first point of contact not the cross member where it hangs low in the center. I circled points that look as the parts that would get smashed up and hang you up on rocks on one of your photos. If you look at BudBuilt, MetalTech, White Knuckle sliders they are flush as possible with frame rail and the arms that go out to the slider do not bend down they are straight and angled up.
View attachment 2453107

Where for my White Knuckle Sliders the bar circled in yellow is the lowest point in the system. So nothing can hang me up when sliding on rocks.
View attachment 2453121

Interesting. Goes to show that the ARB steps probably serves a different mission. Breakover clearance and ability to slide over obstacles, is surely compromised with this setup, even over stock. Many sliders do install with U-bolts but the bracketing is curiously low. The better ones, to your point, try to maintain or increase clearance over stock. Looking at the bent support arms of the ARB, a reason I can see for its configuration, which seemingly is more expensive to manufacture in this manner, is to be the first point of contact when bottoming. This brings the vertical loads closer into the rails reducing moment forces on the sliders support structure, and frame which is a desirable thing. And perhaps to be the sacrificial point rather than the weaker and aesthetic outer rail. I do like the overall design and it does seem to be a durable setup, but likely not for the more extreme enthusiasts.
 
I have enough fabrication experience to know that in this application (heavy vehicle, lots of potential for force) if my goal was to keep these from hitting the body I'd have much thicker steel for those brackets. @VooDoo2 brings up a GREAT point.. ARB is one of the few manufacturers that really takes Toyota's OE crash test standards into account when designing these things, and doesn't want to either take the liability or imperil the vehicle occupants to anything other than what toyota designed.

To that end.. frankly, my gut is that budbuilt stuff is stronger than it really needs to be.. but in this application, with "rock sliders" being the label, that is what I'd prefer my "protection" to be. Over built. Yes, these trucks are heavy. Anything that can be done to lighten the final setup is a good goal to work toward, but with regard to sliders at least the weight is low and sprung, minimizing handling/offroading drawbacks and "putting the weight where it will do the most good".

Maybe one day someone will go overboard with engineering sliders that provide the perfect combination of attachment, convenience, strength (without overpowering the frame rail), materials, weight, etc. But I'd expect these to be $$$$. For now, if you need "protection", look for "sliders." If you need steps, and very minor protection that fits the wheeling environment of places like Australia (as whoever pointed out, sorry I've had too many Hazy IPA's to go back and look and successfully navigate back here), the ARBs are a high quality and attractive option. With my propensity for Colorado rocks, and frankly not enough experience to avoid the problem ones.. I like my Metal Techs a lot.



Great points.. and all part of an engineered system. Any change to that system (sliders, steps, etc) can throw things off.

Sometimes I feel like we should all just be towing buggies to the trails. Then I think about having AC and ventilated seats.....

I just had chance to look at MetalTech sliders......their bracket where attaches to frame does not look any beefier and it has only two legs?? BB sliders...now, that i can see beefy attachments all along the slider. Maybe pics don’t tell whole pic, but i don’t see MT being that much beefier (if at all?).

4CDA62D7-E8D8-4F1B-8787-F18C00286C00.png
 
Last edited:
I just had chance to look at MetalTech sliders......their bracket where attaches to frame does not look any beefier and it has only two legs?? BB sliders...now, that i can see beefy attachments all along the slider. Maybe pics don’t tell whole pic, but i don’t see MT being that much beefier (if at all?).

View attachment 2453253
You should check them out up close. The mounts are a combination of 3/16 & 1/4" plate steel, and the mounting holes along the bottom allow bolts to be inserted into the bottom of the frame, putting them in shear when there is upward force on the slider, which is an extremely strong way to mount something. Also while you do need to drill some holes along the bottom (and frankly this was a pain in the ass, as one of them was through an overlap) it's impossible to squeeze or crimp the frame rail as can be done with some others.

No sheetmetal here.

Even with only two legs you can jack up the side of the truck with a hi-lift off these without issue.

Fitment wasn't perfect.. the blank hole in the attached picture didn't line up with the one in the frame, but it's in compression when the slider sees any force so I'm not worried about it.

IMG_2059.JPG


Those are 9/16" bolt heads, for reference.

For what it's worth the summit sliders protude down so far past the u-bolt for strength. With steel that thin if the folded structure stopped just below the bolt it wouldn't be nearly as strong as if it went past for extra rigidity.
 
You should check them out up close. The mounts are a combination of 3/16 & 1/4" plate steel, and the mounting holes along the bottom allow bolts to be inserted into the bottom of the frame, putting them in shear when there is upward force on the slider, which is an extremely strong way to mount something. Also while you do need to drill some holes along the bottom (and frankly this was a pain in the ass, as one of them was through an overlap) it's impossible to squeeze or crimp the frame rail as can be done with some others.

No sheetmetal here.

Even with only two legs you can jack up the side of the truck with a hi-lift off these without issue.

Fitment wasn't perfect.. the blank hole in the attached picture didn't line up with the one in the frame, but it's in compression when the slider sees any force so I'm not worried about it.

View attachment 2453779

Those are 9/16" bolt heads, for reference.

For what it's worth the summit sliders protude down so far past the u-bolt for strength. With steel that thin if the folded structure stopped just below the bolt it wouldn't be nearly as strong as if it went past for extra rigidity.

Maybe you're right...nice thick brackets. Now, do i think that ARB uses "sheetmetal" as you claimed...i think that if Toyota used the same for their sheetmetal, then i am overjoy! ARB advertises that it can support weight of vehicle...i don't know...nor do i care to try. ARB steps/slider design is pretty much same for ages and across platforms (Jeeps, Toyota, Ford, etc.). So, they are proven and i trust ARB R&D. You can see in their design...i do see some thought went into the way the design it. IF those steps/sliders are as sheetmetal-ish as you say, then you would hear about it all over the internet and ARB reputation would be horrible.
 
I wouldn't agree with the interpretation of the ARB brackets being sheetmetal. When they're heavier gauge than the OEM frame, that's pretty thick.

I dislike the Metaltech mounting system with only two feet, no mater how strong those feet may be. The OEM frame is thinner and would be the sacrificial component when push comes to shove. That's not how the system should work.
 
I wouldn't agree with the interpretation of the ARB brackets being sheetmetal. When they're heavier gauge than the OEM frame, that's pretty thick.

I dislike the Metaltech mounting system with only two feet, no mater how strong those feet may be. The OEM frame is thinner and would be the sacrificial component when push comes to shove. That's not how the system should work.

They aren’t in an enclosed box structure like the frame is, and likely not the same grade of steel either.

As mentioned the fasteners that see the most load go through two layers of frame metal on the bottom, and put them in shear. The portion that sees compression into the frame is distributed across large pieces of thick plate steel and have gussets to further distribute load. While I haven’t slammed it onto rocks yet, I’ve jacked the truck up with a high lift without issue or significant deflection. I trust them, but they aren’t bud built. But then with no plans for front/rear armor or skids or the rubicon I probably don’t need that level of bombproof protection either. Just occasional oops moments in the Rockies that I prefer to play in, protecting the rocker panels, and surviving to fight another day. They’ll do that well. While nice for what they are, ARBs would be more likely to drag in the first place, and get damaged if that happened, because they don’t seem designed for the same environment.
 
Last edited:
One of the things that i think further helps ARB design is...along the 3 arms (per side), there are mounting plates welded to the arm and bracket for further support and distribute (upward and lateral) forces (see arrows in 1st pic). The front arm actually has one plate on each side of the arm. 2nd picture shows the thickness of the metal of bracket. 3rd pic shows how big the support plates are.

And as noted above, there is no ”exposed” bolt that can be damage if you scrap the bottom. There is actually ONE down pointing bolt at the front arm, but that is protected as well...see last pic.

D4A627D0-2D55-4D27-A2D8-2B59E4F2C375.jpeg


B3BB5BEB-BE5F-4750-AA43-AEB37D12E042.jpeg


8466A1D6-B1A6-4301-A873-D8BB570C9F0D.jpeg


5169B538-DEAB-40DF-8E3A-DBA182F2C09E.jpeg
 
Last edited:
So, @Madtiger, I'm getting a subtle feeling that you are a fan of the ARB steps?

Just razzing you. I feel the same about the Budbuilt products.
 
So, @Madtiger, I'm getting a subtle feeling that you are a fan of the ARB steps?

Just razzing you. I feel the same about the Budbuilt products.

:D When i first got it, i was OK with the design...taken a bit back when there is no "slider" component/bar like other sliders. But over time, i see why ARB did the design the way it is. In addition, the ARB makes my car look fancy with the aluminum plate...looks even better than OEM running boards. (But then again, i am one of the few here that actually likes factory chrome! So, i truly have no taste!)

Actually, i had communication with BB for months prior to buying the ARB...BB are truly overbuilt and bomb-proof...but overkill for me both in protection and weight. (And i do care about weight, whether sprung or unsprung; the only sacrifice i made was KO2 but i went stock size to minimize effect.) I talked to BB about making a "lighter" version...and waited for months for it...but BB finally told me that they could not justify making a weaker version. I totally understand their engineering philosophy. I thought about Slee formed slider (the one for LX) but i did not think that their mounting and formed steel were that stout. So, ARB was really my only choice.
 
Last edited:
I recently installed bud built rock sliders and am SUPER impressed with how they're mounted. I opted for rock sliders instead of step sliders to save weight, but to retain the protection that bud built provides. No cutting / no welding of the frame.

20201001_183300.jpg


IMG-20201001-WA0012.jpg
 
I recently installed bud built rock sliders and am SUPER impressed with how they're mounted. I opted for rock sliders instead of step sliders to save weight, but to retain the protection that bud built provides. No cutting / no welding of the frame.

View attachment 2455025

View attachment 2455026

I really like low profile designs like this. I wish there was an option from Toyota like the factory Wrangler Rubicons OEM sliders that look seamless and still do a good job.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom