Why can't an 80 flex like..... (1 Viewer)

[ShottsUZJ100]

And here is some ZJ pic I found (still trying to locate my own pic)

SEE, that's WHACKED! I'D LUV THAT! Damn would that help out there!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

So, you are saying, stock to stock, any Jeep, particulary a Wrangler could out wheel an 80? Locked? hmmmm.....

This is where I'm getting confused. See, no one answers my friggin question about what changes are in those pictures of the modded Wranglers you keep posting. A reengineered front suspension, ie control arms etc is for sure going to have more flex. So, again, stock to stock, if I simply remove the sway bar on a Wrangler, will it flex like that? With it on, I know for a fact it doesn't. With it off, I don't know, I'm asking.

Disco the sway bars (5 minutes) and on 95% of the obstacles a stock Rubi will eat the stock 80. No question.
Now, both rigs need lift. Do that and the Rubi has even more advatage due to so many options.
Then, factor in size (though that's not the point of this "flex thread") and SWB and we're toast almost everywhere.

The ONLY stock wehicle I believe can side-by the Rubi is an '04 Tacoma 4WD TRD. Amazing stock vehicles. Modified, a Tacoma will trash Cruisers all day long. No argument (though I want an SUV).

 

[Darwood]

Shotts, here's a couple more for ya!

The last ones aren't that great but I posted them anyway for some reason

 

[Curran]

Maybe you haven't seen any decent Jeeps?

I have to be honest with myself though.

The friggin' Jeeps bury us ...)

Shotts,
You must wheel like a (sorry, had to say it.) Or at least you need to really get out and push your truck more.
I've wheeled with a bunch of Jeeps -- stock through extremely modified and I have yet to be buried. In fact on an open trail ride at Paragon my 80 was one of two rigs to make it up the rock wall at the top of the Rock Garden. The trai leader in a sweet little Sahara on 35s w/ ARBs front and back took the bypass (as did every other jeep in the crowd) and watched in disbelief as the soccer mom Cruiser walked the ledge. A CJ7 on 38's didn't make it nor did a Cherokee (XJ?) on 35s. The only other truck that made it was UROCK tube buggy on Krawlers. Perhaps it was the truck or perhaps it was driver. I don't know, but buried is not the description I'd use.
Just because the Jeeps in your pictures with 31" tires flex well doesn't mean they are better in the rocks than an 80 or any other Cruiser.
Sure a Stock US Spec 80 has poor approach/break over/departure angles. But give it a relatively cheap lift and even just a set of 33s and you won't get buried. There are some obstacles that the short wheelbased vehicles kick ass, but there are other spots where the longer wheel base gives you the forgiveness to try lines they could never think of. Learn the capability of your truck and I doubt you'll ever get buried.



Curran

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

Back to the ORIGINAL question...This is what limits the front of an 80. Notice the inner twist in the OME bushing (much harder then factory) and the extreme side pressure. Control arms that rotate help but the side pressure is still evident as a limiting factor even with panhard modification. Front swaybar disconnect do help a little in achieving more travel but the real benefit of the front swaybar disconnect is a firmer plant of the extended tire.

 

[FirstToy]

Just because the Jeeps in your pictures with 31" tires flex well doesn't mean they are better in the rocks than an 80 or any other Cruiser.

Sure a Stock US Spec 80 has poor approach/break over/departure angles.

Learn the capability of your truck and I doubt you'll ever get buried.



Curran

agree with everything you are saying. If you think the 80 has poor departure angles, take a gander at the Taco.

Driver experience trumps all mods.
The 80 is great. period.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Why oh why are you all so stuck on flex??????? It's doesn'e mean much when you really start wheeling. A solid axle leaf spring Toy mini truck will outwheel both a 80 and a Rubicon with less flex.

If you really get into the nasty stuff, you need a stable truck. One that does not unload the front on climbs, can be stable on side hills and don't go arse over end when going down hill. Maybe it is a AZ thing based on the terrain you guys wheel (I have been there) and did Charleu (SP?) Gap and did not think it was tough. Sure there are probably tuffer trails out there.

None of the pictures mean anything since the wheelbases are not the same so the tires are not in the same spot. Granted the 80 front end does not flex like a 4 link Jeep TJ front end. Grand Cherokee's and XJ's come closer to size, but hey, where do you bolt the sliders to? Oops, no frame.

Shotts' I thought the deal was I lead Golden Spike, you bring the 100 series. What happened to that??? GS falls (and the other ones you chose) are all well below that 95% thresshold.

 

[expeditionswest]

ExpeditionsWest, your comments seem a bit condescending and preachy. Most of the people on here are in love with their cruisers(basically cruiser dedicated), and frankly just don't really give a s*** about a quadra coil jeep.

wb1948,

I apologize if I came across that way, it wasn't my intention (I guess my "business world" tone came across instead of my "having fun taking about wheeling" tone). It can be so hard to understand someone position and intent on these boards. I was just trying to respond to John's question (which required me commenting on a quadra coil Jeep...) and cast some cross-brand perspective at the same time.

Flex is only a small component of how well a vehicle performs off-highway. With just a few essential modifications (most of which the 80 already has) and driver skill, it is amazing where a 4wd can go

Please know that I am a huge TLC 80 fan, and fully appreciate their place in our pursuit; which also happens to be #1 on my "best vehicle ever" list too...

I will bow out for now. I have a trip across the Sierra Pinacate and Altar desert of Mexico to pack for. (Yee haa!)

 

[Darwood]

Why oh why are you all so stuck on flex??????? It's doesn'e mean much when you really start wheeling. A solid axle leaf spring Toy mini truck will outwheel both a 80 and a Rubicon with less flex.

I for one can say I'm not stuck on flex, and if I was I would still own my ZJ. Instead I decided to get a truck that is used worldwide in harsh environments.

Grand Cherokee's and XJ's come closer to size, but hey, where do you bolt the sliders to? Oops, no frame.

Intersting point, however I kinda liked the sliders I had on the ZJ. They were 2x4 box tubing that bolted to the uniframe and the pinch weld. They did a good job of protecting the rockers. The big downside of the truck was that it felt very disposable.

 

[best4x4xfar]

Hey All,

If anyone is still interested in talking about why the 80’s front ends doesn’t flex as well, and how to make it flex better (instead of talking about J**ps) Land Cruiser Phil has posted a great photo, I’ve been looking for a similar one to add to the thread. The radius arm design f the 80’s front end puts incredible binding stress on the mounts under articulation. Once the flex of the bushing is used up, suspension flex stops, until something solid (like the mounts welded to the axle) let go. I’ve seen it happen to Rover’s wheeled extremely hard over long periods of time.

Something I forgot to mention, that prompted me to post again. The OME castor correction bushings are a cheap and easy way to correct minor lift induced castor offsets. However, as a side effect of their design, they end up limiting front suspension flex because you narrow out the actual bushing (flexible rubber part), thereby reducing the flex before the radius arm and mount bind. I’ve attached a photo of a Land Rover radius arm with stock bushings compared to one with OME castor correction bushings (top). I don’t know if the Cruisers OME castor bushings are as bad or not, but it was a photo I had and shows pretty dramatically the reduction in available bushing area as a result. So one thing to consider if you want flex, is NOT USING an OME castor correction bushing set to set your castor back, especially now that Slee has the plate kit for the axle mounts as an alternative.

 

[alia176]

Every board has one...

Kyle in Discoweb
Junk in IH8MUD

Both from the East Coast

 

[concretejungle]

Every board has one...

Kyle in Discoweb
Junk in IH8MUD

Both from the East Coast

Hey, i'm from the east coast and i'm a nice guy!

THis thread does seem to be turning from a technical thread to a XXXX is better than a XXXXX thread.

I would like to know the actual wheel movement measurment or axle measurement. Only reason is because most 80s run much larger tires than jeeps. So the 80 wheel doesn't appear that it's moved or flexed as far, but in fact it's moved lets say 12 inches. A jeep tire looks as if it's flexed off the chart, but yet it's 4 inches smaller so in reality it's only moved 12 inches also but looks like more.

 

[T Y L E R]

Who cares ! Just take your junk on the trail with yer buds and enjoy ...



TY

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Shotts,
You must wheel like a (sorry, had to say it.) Or at least you need to really get out and push your truck more.
I've wheeled with a bunch of Jeeps -- stock through extremely modified and I have yet to be buried. In fact on an open trail ride at Paragon my 80 was one of two rigs to make it up the rock wall at the top of the Rock Garden. The trai leader in a sweet little Sahara on 35s w/ ARBs front and back took the bypass (as did every other jeep in the crowd) and watched in disbelief as the soccer mom Cruiser walked the ledge. A CJ7 on 38's didn't make it nor did a Cherokee (XJ?) on 35s. The only other truck that made it was UROCK tube buggy on Krawlers. Perhaps it was the truck or perhaps it was driver. I don't know, but buried is not the description I'd use.
Just because the Jeeps in your pictures with 31" tires flex well doesn't mean they are better in the rocks than an 80 or any other Cruiser.
Sure a Stock US Spec 80 has poor approach/break over/departure angles. But give it a relatively cheap lift and even just a set of 33s and you won't get buried. There are some obstacles that the short wheelbased vehicles kick ass, but there are other spots where the longer wheel base gives you the forgiveness to try lines they could never think of. Learn the capability of your truck and I doubt you'll ever get buried.



Curran

Be objective buddy. Your story discusses 1 obstacle you had an easier time on. On the other 99, the Wranglers will make it look easy.
BTW: Those Jeeps have 35's on them and will embarrass yours and my 80 in almost any extreme trail. Can we be honest with ourselves?
I'm not saying we don't impress these Jeepers, but overall we can't hang with them. Sure, the Step on Tucson's Charouleau Gap Trail is an easy climb for a LWB compared to a SWB, though it's the ONLY obstacle on the whole trail we have easier. Look at the big picture.

Now, back to the point of this thread........flex? Wouldn't you like your 80 to flex like those Jeeps? I would.

 

[stuck in GA]

This is the longest damn thread ive ever seen!

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

agree with everything you are saying. If you think the 80 has poor departure angles, take a gander at the Taco.

Driver experience trumps all mods.
The 80 is great. period.

Hee hee!

You wanna talk approach and departure angles on an 80?

Hmmm, let's see what these are:
http://www.expeditionswest.com/vehicles/adventurepartners/john80.html

It'll do some lines most 80's cannot (due to the reduced length) but I can still admit to myself that it ain't no friggin' Wrangler.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

This is the longest damn thread ive ever seen!

Ya, it went from more flex to which is best off-road.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

Why oh why are you all so stuck on flex??????? It's doesn'e mean much when you really start wheeling. A solid axle leaf spring Toy mini truck will outwheel both a 80 and a Rubicon with less flex.

If you really get into the nasty stuff, you need a stable truck. One that does not unload the front on climbs, can be stable on side hills and don't go arse over end when going down hill. Maybe it is a AZ thing based on the terrain you guys wheel (I have been there) and did Charleu (SP?) Gap and did not think it was tough. Sure there are probably tuffer trails out there.

None of the pictures mean anything since the wheelbases are not the same so the tires are not in the same spot. Granted the 80 front end does not flex like a 4 link Jeep TJ front end. Grand Cherokee's and XJ's come closer to size, but hey, where do you bolt the sliders to? Oops, no frame.

Shotts' I thought the deal was I lead Golden Spike, you bring the 100 series. What happened to that??? GS falls (and the other ones you chose) are all well below that 95% thresshold.

You really think another 2-inches of travel would make the 80 less stable? I just can't see that though I'm not the techno expert either. That's why I started this thread.

To clarify......I'm not saying I'd like a Jeep. Duh! I am saying I'd like that added flex so the wheels stay planted on the ground.

100 in Moab. Doubt it. It's about fun. 80 = Fun = First rip there.

 

[Waggoner5]

I can't wait to get my FZJ45 done with a 80 chassis so I can wheel with the smaller Rubicons. There won't be a size issue and with 90 degree approach and departure angles, we will see which vehicle wheels better. My $ is on the 80. the statement of evn non Rubicon Jeeps will wheel better than an 80 is a little sketchy at best. Bens old 80 with the front control arm issue fixed and the rear modified some flexed pretty well don't you think.

 

[concretejungle]

Bens old 80 with the front control arm issue fixed and the rear modified some flexed pretty well don't you think.

Is that Bens or action jackson's?