- Thread starter
- #61
I may go that route. What did you do about shims? Was there a kit you could buy? I have some for shimming dirt bike valves that appear the right size...but I'm guessing they're off by a hair.
Builds White Lightning's Diesel Conversion - A 1994 T100 OM606 swap (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bryan Plunkett
- Start date
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I bought the whole injector rebuild kit, which comes with the pop tester, shims, cleaning tools, and a printed guide. The nozzles I purchased from the same outfit, although Monark apparently doesn't make nozzles for the 606. The only options would be either OEM Bosch or Bosio. I have heard good things about the Bosio nozzles: Bosio Injector Nozzle (SD 314) - BN0SD314 - IDParts.com
- Thread starter
- #63
Ahh, I think I see the one you are talking about on that sight. I've considered making my own pop tester as I think I could save about 100$ there...but not entirely sure it'd be worth the hassle of sourcing all of the parts. When you tested yours, were you able to get the injectors to fire in a machine gun like pattern while doing a full stroke of the handle?
I believe Monark does indeed make 606 nozzles, at least this person on ebay is saying they do. These are the ones I got...wondering if they actually aren't 606 specs.
6 X MONARK INJECTOR NOZZLE FOR MERCEDES W210 & S210 E300 TURBO D / | eBay
Any Monark or Bosio IDI nozzle should fit in the injector housing, but the difference is in the spray pattern and quantity (differentiated by the part number) For example, IIRC the OM617 came stock with an SD240 nozzle, but you could put an SD261, SD265, or SD314 in it. The OM606 came stock with the SD314, so any of the others is a downgrade and isn't recommended. My OM617 had Bosio SD314's in it when I got it, they were best for making the most power. When I rebuilt the injectors I replaced them with Monark SD265's, which cut down on peak power but increased low end torque and efficiency (a little). In short, I don't think that Monark makes a 314-spec nozzle, so while a nozzle may fit, it won't be right for the application.
- Thread starter
- #65
I got them from this guy off ebay (6 X MONARK INJECTOR NOZZLE FOR MERCEDES W210 & S210 E300 TURBO D / | eBay). I thought the cross reference part numbers matched up..wondering i they are incorrectly listed
Edit, looks like these Monark Nozzles are SD310s, would that explain why the rebuilder guy couldn't get them to fire correctly when shimmed for 135 bar?
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Easily made with a $10 Harbor Freight bottle jack and some high pressure 1/8" pipe fittings. Biggest PITA to source is the hard injector line you need to mount the injector to be tested. The one I built gives the machine gun rapid firing of the injector. Works great.
- Thread starter
- #67
Can I ask where you got the hardline? is there a specific model of car that has the right fittings on either end I could hunt ebay for?
So VW and Mercedes use the same Bosch injector body. I actually bought a complete set of VW injector lines for a car and happened to ask the seller if he had a spare single line and he threw one in for free. I cut the injection pump end off and used either a compression of flare fitting to adapt to the bottle jack. So look for 80's Mercedes or VW injector hard lines. There has to be tons of them out there - and you can even utilize one that has a damaged injector pump end.
I can't find my thread on VWDieselparts.com.
Here's one:
PeachPartsWiki: How to build a Diesel Injector Pop Tester
Seems a lot of guys use the delivery valve from an old pump instead of cutting the line. I also think my method of modding the jack was better. I'll take a picture tonight.
Here's one:
PeachPartsWiki: How to build a Diesel Injector Pop Tester
Seems a lot of guys use the delivery valve from an old pump instead of cutting the line. I also think my method of modding the jack was better. I'll take a picture tonight.
Hi, new to forum and spotted this build thread, nice job you have done.
Just wanted to say that I used the same ones on my motor and they seem ok so far, no mileage on them yet though.
I got shims from this place Diesel Injector Pressure Shims / Nozzle Pressure Shim Kit - 4 Sizes, Qty:15 each | eBay
Just contact them and ask for the 9.8mm OD ones and they can do you a set as a direct sale. I got mine as close as I could with shims then lapped the main Shim until I got the pressure I was after.
Forgot to add these pics. Harbor Freight bottle jack, took the ram out and welded a bung in, then drilled and tapped for the pipe thread. High pressure Gage. Welded a pipe nipple to the side of the jack to add diesel. High pressure fine filter ahead of the injectors line.
- Thread starter
- #72
thanks for posting those up, I've been meaning to get on with getting a test setup made and some new nozzles on the way. It runs well enough that i've focused on regearing it and some other things instead, but this is definitely still needed in the near future. Thanks
- Thread starter
- #73
appreciate you posting up those shims. I realized my shims for doing the valves on my dirt bike are 9.48mm OD and I've got a kit of those already...may see if they're close enough.
Interesting they worked out OK for you, yours were 606 turbo injectors as well? The guy who did mine (or tried to) seemed to have a hell of a time...or at least thats what he told me, couldn't get them to fire right. Unfortunately I think I threw away 300$ on those nozzles, but we'll see.
Yep mine are 606 turbo injectors, I just flushed the new nozzles with clean fuel before fitting and setting shims etc. Runs nice but haven’t done any miles on them yet, (haven’t finished rest of build yet).
- Thread starter
- #75
It's been awhile since an update. I've got about 2000 miles on the swap so far. Key issues so far have been as follows.
1) bad injectors giving it a rough idle and some smoke at startup, I need some time to find some bozio nozzles and build a test stand. it runs decent enough for now, but it had a little shake at idle thats annoying.
2) The Dodge 5.9 1st gen cummins mounts (anchor 2710) were wayyy to stiff for this 500 lbs engine. I thought this engine would be smoother, but these mounts transferred way too much shock to the frame. There are some similar mounts with about half the rubber, anchor 2469s (the smaller of the two). I had to make a spacer shim to keep the engine at the same height but these helped tremendously. I would highly recommend to stay away from the 2710s unless you really have a 1000lb engine you are putting in. I'm sure the mercedes liquid mounts are smoother than either option, but since I'm running the manual transmission with tight clearances between the engine and front diff, I didn't want the engine sloshing around every time i shifted. Also these are like 12% each.
3) power steering reservoir felt really hot after a highway stint. I figured since the old lines routed under the truck from the driver to passenger side they offered more fluid volume and cooling than the 1 ft of rubber lines I had. I added this 25$ finned heat exchanger I bought off amazon for some piece of mind. It's purposely not mounted out from because I want to PS fluid to warm up some in the winter.
4) 4.3 gears had this thing running through the gears wayyy to quick to be streetable with 31" tires, and 70mph was about 2900rpm. I found a 3.91 tundra rear on ebay and added the LSD i already had to it. Had to do a bunch of shimming, including the pinion depth to get a decent pattern. I'm still hunting for a 3.91 front diff for a T100...thought I had one but they sent a 4.1 instead :-/
it did give me an excuse to buy a press. Also for the pinion bearing race that needs to be pressed out for shim changes, it's best to use a scrap pinion race to drive the good one back in as most race driver sets (that I could find) don't go this large.
good enough. have about 350 miles on it...hasn't blown up yet
5) Still have the annoying whine from the exhaust or clutch or something. Added another hard mount thinking i had too long a run between the turbo and the next mount, this didn't change it at all which has me worried it isn't exhaust related.
6) in order to control the tiny turbo with what I imagine are high exhaust manifold pressures, I have to run a 15 psi spring on the wastegate. With the electronic boost control i have no problem getting it to control boost to 20-21 psi at full throttle, which has good power and no smoke. The issue is that when cruising down the highway I'm almost always running 10psi when the engine isn't really even loaded. I believe this is hurting my fuel economy and maybe some turbo life. Mercedes uses the vacuum wastegate and cracks the wastegate under these highway conditions. I believe a 5psi spring is what I need however I wasn't able to control the wastegate with such a low spring setting (it would just blow open at full throttle and I would loose most boost). I've looked at the turbosmart wastegate that allows you to apply pressure to both sides of the diaphragm...wishing i'd just of ponied up and gotten that one for starters. any suggestions out there?
1) bad injectors giving it a rough idle and some smoke at startup, I need some time to find some bozio nozzles and build a test stand. it runs decent enough for now, but it had a little shake at idle thats annoying.
2) The Dodge 5.9 1st gen cummins mounts (anchor 2710) were wayyy to stiff for this 500 lbs engine. I thought this engine would be smoother, but these mounts transferred way too much shock to the frame. There are some similar mounts with about half the rubber, anchor 2469s (the smaller of the two). I had to make a spacer shim to keep the engine at the same height but these helped tremendously. I would highly recommend to stay away from the 2710s unless you really have a 1000lb engine you are putting in. I'm sure the mercedes liquid mounts are smoother than either option, but since I'm running the manual transmission with tight clearances between the engine and front diff, I didn't want the engine sloshing around every time i shifted. Also these are like 12% each.
3) power steering reservoir felt really hot after a highway stint. I figured since the old lines routed under the truck from the driver to passenger side they offered more fluid volume and cooling than the 1 ft of rubber lines I had. I added this 25$ finned heat exchanger I bought off amazon for some piece of mind. It's purposely not mounted out from because I want to PS fluid to warm up some in the winter.
4) 4.3 gears had this thing running through the gears wayyy to quick to be streetable with 31" tires, and 70mph was about 2900rpm. I found a 3.91 tundra rear on ebay and added the LSD i already had to it. Had to do a bunch of shimming, including the pinion depth to get a decent pattern. I'm still hunting for a 3.91 front diff for a T100...thought I had one but they sent a 4.1 instead :-/
it did give me an excuse to buy a press. Also for the pinion bearing race that needs to be pressed out for shim changes, it's best to use a scrap pinion race to drive the good one back in as most race driver sets (that I could find) don't go this large.
good enough. have about 350 miles on it...hasn't blown up yet
5) Still have the annoying whine from the exhaust or clutch or something. Added another hard mount thinking i had too long a run between the turbo and the next mount, this didn't change it at all which has me worried it isn't exhaust related.
6) in order to control the tiny turbo with what I imagine are high exhaust manifold pressures, I have to run a 15 psi spring on the wastegate. With the electronic boost control i have no problem getting it to control boost to 20-21 psi at full throttle, which has good power and no smoke. The issue is that when cruising down the highway I'm almost always running 10psi when the engine isn't really even loaded. I believe this is hurting my fuel economy and maybe some turbo life. Mercedes uses the vacuum wastegate and cracks the wastegate under these highway conditions. I believe a 5psi spring is what I need however I wasn't able to control the wastegate with such a low spring setting (it would just blow open at full throttle and I would loose most boost). I've looked at the turbosmart wastegate that allows you to apply pressure to both sides of the diaphragm...wishing i'd just of ponied up and gotten that one for starters. any suggestions out there?
- Thread starter
- #76
Finally able to take this guy running and not have to get wet dirty dog all over the inside of the car
My HDJ81 would push 10psi (max boost) stock when running down the highway, when I added a MBC and upped the boost to 15psi it would push 15psi running down the highway, lol. With the MBC set to 22psi, it would push as much as 18psi to do 120km/h, I think it's just a turbo diesel thing.
The thing is it also had better power at the higher boost levels for accelerating/passing, it was choked for air at the lower boost levels. The boost will run as high or as low as the load on the engine requires, subject to your max boost level available. If you tune the boost compensator you can limit the fuel at a given boost level and get your fuel economy sorted that way, let the engine have it's air though.
The thing is it also had better power at the higher boost levels for accelerating/passing, it was choked for air at the lower boost levels. The boost will run as high or as low as the load on the engine requires, subject to your max boost level available. If you tune the boost compensator you can limit the fuel at a given boost level and get your fuel economy sorted that way, let the engine have it's air though.
- Thread starter
- #78
Hey Ian,
So in almost every case I think you are right, however the turbine side on the 606 turbo is so small I think it creates a lot of backpressure in the exhaust manifold which is hurting efficiency more than the engine is gaining from the extra boost. With the amount of fuel needed to run this thing down the highway, I probably only need 5psi to keep it smoke free/running efficient. I think that the extra 5psi of boost pressure (to get me from 5 --> 10psi) is probably coming at a cost of >>5psi in the exhaust manifold which is less efficient due to turbo inefficiencies. For reference, i'm at about 2550rpm on the highway, using ~25% of the total fueling this pump is capable of. I have to imagine, after experimenting with this further, that Mercedes didn't choose to go to a vacuum controlled turbo for fun.
If I just put my foot into it the turbo makes more pressure as needed and it pulls great with no smoke (for a truck).
What are others with this powertrain seeing for boost on the highway? Keeping in mind that you are pushing a brick through the air compared the the cars these things are usually in, lol.
I have the factory OM606A setup in a Mercedes G. It runs ~3-4 PSI of boost at a steady 60mph. The wastegate is controlled by the ECU. Boost is actively manages so that there is just enough air with minimum backpressure. The control line (vacuum) is constantly changing to match the need.
Great build log! A whole lot of work, but the end result seems great!
Was there a consensus as to the correct replacement nozzles? Mine have 270K miles on them and are certainly due for replacement.
