Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels (3 Viewers)

[watrob]

Hi Rudi, thanks for that, so "OI & D" gives me power to the VSV when the ignition is turn to ON & START :-

So when the ignition is ON, power is on the "Left Relay" which in turn moves the "Middle Relay" into "D" (RUN) position, when the ignition key is turned to START the "Left Relay" changes to the OI position (START overject), when the key is released back to ON the "Left Relay" sends power back to the "Middle Relay" which in turn moves to the "D" position.

What I don't understand is when the key is in "ACC" (OFF) power is still always on "+B" from the FL of the battery, can you explain to me what's cutting the 12 volt power supply off internally in relationship to the "Right Relay" where "B" & "M" are concerned.?

 

[bj40green]

This is typical Toyota way of drawing a relay. I consider the coil the relay no matter where the contacts are.
So.... the left coil is the RED contacts.
The middle relay is the GREEN contacts.
The right relay are the BLUE contacts.
The diagram is in the "OFF" position. In other words; the relays are powerless and at rest position.
When the Starter Switch is in the IG (run) position, the transistor on the right is conducting and thus activating the left relay (red) which will move to the D position.
When the Starter Switch is moved to the Start position, the middle relay (green) is activated and moves the contacts to the OI position. At this point D is powerless!
When you release the key after cranking (back to IG or run position) and D is activated again. So D is powerless during cranking.

Can you still follow this?????????

What I don't understand is when the key is in "ACC" (OFF) power is still always on "+B" from the FL of the battery, can you explain to me what's cutting the 12 volt power supply off internally in relationship to the "Right Relay" where "B" & "M" are concerned.?

Pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft, if you don't understand electronics, transistors, capacitors, resistors, diodes and so on it's very difficult to explain.
Believe me, that OPS sends a signal to the transistor on the left which is delayed by the left capacitor to finally shut off the relay on the right.

Sorry..... here does it stop.

Wish you luck and a good night sleep, I'm going to bed.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

This is typical Toyota way of drawing a relay. I consider the coil the relay no matter where the contacts are.
So.... the left coil is the RED contacts.
The middle relay is the GREEN contacts.
The right relay are the BLUE contacts.
The diagram is in the "OFF" position. In other words; the relays are powerless and at rest position.
When the Starter Switch is in the IG (run) position, the transistor on the right is conducting and thus activating the left relay (red) which will move to the D position.
When the Starter Switch is moved to the Start position, the middle relay (green) is activated and moves the contacts to the OI position. At this point D is powerless!
When you release the key after cranking (back to IG or run position) and D is activated again. So D is powerless during cranking.

Can you still follow this???????????????

Rudi

Yes I follow, I sort of said that, I fixed the circuit up but I did say I thought I coded it wrong which I have fixed up & edit my post accordingly.

Thanks Rudi.

 

[bj40green]

Here is your diagram with an explanation in color. I used different colors because in my world Red is always +12V.
So RED is battery voltage that goes through the M relay and stops at the ST relay.
When the key is off, the voltage stops on the S terminal which you don't use.
Key in the IG (run) position = power (blue line) to the transistor circuit (including the OPS) and the D terminal is 12V (for your VSV).
Key in the ST (start) position = power (green line) to the middle relay which switches from D to OI terminal (for your VSV).
So now you have +12V intermittent on the D and OI terminals. But there is a minor problem.
The M relay is in series and your VSV is not going to like that. So.... take out the M relay and jump the coil contacts (red dotted line).
As I said before... when the middle relay flips from D to OI there is a split second no power to your VSV.
I don't know if that is a problem. I think not but you never know.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

Hi Rudi, had a terrible day to day, a person if you can call him that broke into my offices last night and in 6 minutes kicked 4 doors in and smashed 3 plaster walls. Caught it on security video but was gone before security showed up, nothing stolen, probably just looking for petty cash.

Thank's for outlining the circuit, its very much appreciated, in regards to this statement:-

"The M relay is in series and your VSV is not going to like that. So.... take out the M relay and jump the coil contacts (red dotted line)."

1. Can I take out the M Relay out of circuit by simply cutting & jumping the coil contacts?

2. I have to completely remove this M relay off the circuit board is what you mean by "take out" or

3. You were just configurably speaking "take out of circuit" by cutting the coil wire contacts and jumping these two pins. See below photo.

I am sorry for being so pedantic but I am hoping that others that see this thread that do these 2H or 3B Super Glow Systems etc conversions to 12HT's engines whether in 40 series or 60 series have a guide to follow. Thanks for your patience.

 

[bj40green]

You can remove the relay and jump the coil contacts or just put a jumper in (as in the lower picture) and leave the relay where it is.
You may but don't have to cut the 2 coil wires.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

You can remove the relay and jump the coil contacts or just put a jumper in (as in the lower picture) and leave the relay where it is.
You may but don't have to cut the 2 coil wires.

Rudi

Thanks Rudi, you know how we have been discussing there maybe a slight delay for a second or two of 12volts when the relays flip back from OI to D,
what your thoughts on placing a Electrolytic Capacitor say 15volts 25mfd across the bobbin (coil) of relay ST (OI)?

 

[bj40green]

I don't know where you get those 2 seconds. I didn't mention it as far as I know.

......there will be a fraction of a second no power to the VSV.

As I said before... when the middle relay flips from D to OI there is a split second no power to your VSV.

Anyway.... let's get this unit working and if it turns out to be a problem we can figure something out.
An Elec. Cap. is not going to do it. It will delay the fall back. I'm thinking about a diode that keeps the voltage to the VSV while the relay falls back. While typing this I have another idea but have to work it out.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

I don't know where you get those 2 seconds. I didn't mention it as far as I know.



Anyway.... let's get this unit working and if it turns out to be a problem we can figure something out.
An Elec. Cap. is not going to do it. It will delay the fall back. I'm thinking about a diode that keeps the voltage to the VSV while the relay falls back. While typing this I have another idea but have to work it out.

Rudi

Hi Rudi, 1-2 second thing is just a matter of speech, I was just thinking that this split second of power loss to the VSV which activates the vacuum switch which inturn activates the actuator on the butterfly in the inlet manifold it's attached too could at this point become a 1-2 second engine splutter as the butterfly turns, but one could also say that the reaction time of the mechanical vacuum part of the switch & the mechanical actuator will be much to slow to react to a pulse of lost 12 volt power to the switch?

Even the 2h has a slight splutter when the edic motor goes from OI to D because the Oil Pressure cut off switch kicks in all at the same time, so I don't think it may be a problem, I still have the oil pressure switch in circuit which is probably going to do the same thing and momentarily cut the 12 volt supply to the VSV anyway if oil pressure is a little slow to come up to pressure as with the 2H.

The diode thing is a thought as you say, I will make the mods to the FCR as outlined, they will be easy enough to check with a multimeter when I turn the ignition to ON & then to START, it will show the delay of the 12 volt switch from OI to D as well.

 

[bj40green]

While you have the voltmeter out..... check if there is voltage on IG when you turn the key to ST(art).
If so..... i have a solution to skip that split second "no voltage to the VSV" problem.

Rudi

 

[watrob]

While you have the voltmeter out..... check if there is voltage on IG when you turn the key to ST(art).
If so..... i have a solution to skip that split second "no voltage to the VSV" problem.

Rudi

Will do Rudi, but I won't be able to do it until the weekend as the 40 is up at the beach house.

 

[watrob]

I soldered a jumper wire across the coil relay of the FCR, (Fuel (Edic) Control Relay)

 

[watrob]

I also replace the Pre Heat Timer plug on the hj47 wiring loom with larger one to suit the 12HT Pre Heat Timer, I then used a multimeter to check the wires terminated correctly to the corresponding connections on the engine sensors, glow relays, alternator etc.

 

[TLC Norway]

i love that you're discussing this, interesting to follow.

It seems to me that there would not be a problem with the vsv beeing without power for a split second. the vac actually takes a bit of a second, almost two, to shut my butterfly. You could probably just hook up a small delay tank on that line, making the "volum of air/vac" larger.
I can test it on mine just using a longer hose. should create just another second or two for the butterfly to shut.

i like the idea of having incorporated the oil press switch from the edic system into the vac system. It just adds a nifty security.
saved me once when i punctured the oil filter.
another time my edic stopped my previous 2h, i was jammed in a long steep incline on a ledge.
the oil pickup just could not find oil in the sump, so it pulled the edic action off.
And i had to overfill to get it running again. nice feature, as the low oil pressure light in the dash does not react that same way.
maybe its enough for me to add a more accurate switch to the light in the dash, or a buzzer.

ill have to sleep on that, i miss that feature of the 2h with edic.

 

[watrob]

Thanks, I am trying to keep the wiring loom as simply as possible but still have all the features working on the 12HT. We solved the problem of going from glow plugs of the 2h to the heat screen of the 12Ht by simply using the Pre Heat Timer of the 12HT and changing the 2 glow relays of the 2H to the glow relays of the 12HT.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

This thread was an awesome reference for us figuring out the wilson-switched relay setup on our 2H build.

Thank you gents

 

[Aisake Fifita]

Could someone please answer my question.
I have the circular (relay No.1) and the Square (relay No.2). I took both out of the engine and put them back in, but when I did the Square (relay No.2) began heating up and the wires exploded. Would anyone know the reason for this? Please!

 

[bj40green]

Could someone please answer my question.
I have the circular (relay No.1) and the Square (relay No.2). I took both out of the engine and put them back in, but when I did the Square (relay No.2) began heating up and the wires exploded. Would anyone know the reason for this? Please!

Hi welcome to the club.
Can you tell us more about your Cruiser? Model, year, history and a few pictures would be nice.
You can put this info in your signature line so we don't have to ask that question the next time.

Rudi

 

[Aisake Fifita]

Thankyou,

Hi have a Land cruiser HJ47 1983, 2H engine.
I'm just wondering what is the current?

 

[bj40green]

.........the Square (relay No.2) began heating up and the wires exploded

Sounds to me that you have a short to ground. In theory the fusible link should have prevented that kind of damage.
Did you work on anything else? Did you take off the feed wire to the glow plugs bus bar and made short by accident?
Did you put a tool on top of the engine (valve cover) accidentally making a short between the engine and the bus bar?


Rudi