Which plugs should I be running - B, 2B, 3B, H and 2H diesels

[PinkLemon]

lostmarbles you're a legend, very helpful post! For anyone in the US trying to find glow plugs for a diesel Cruiser it is a bit of a pain, unless you want to pay top dollar from SOR. I found this shop in the UK which has a good selection of Denso plugs: http://gsparkplug.com/. Four plugs shipped to California for $45, can't complain with that!

 

[buschmaster86]

I have 1 faulty Lucas hds 242 14V glow plug and 3 beru 0100 231 107 that get hot but not red glowing (when heating them directly with 2 battery cables.

I found out because the engine is hard to start and gives alot of white smoke after it finaly started up,so started investigating.

Now my glow system is like this; 1 cable directly to the bussbar that connects to the 4 plugs and a starter relais and a glow relais like ik the attached pictures(they where already in the 12V wiring loom in the carrocery from the bj73 vm5 engine that i throw over the 24V 3B and shassis.(

The relais seem to operate well from inside of the truck when i turn the key the glow light works and a while after the light goes of and i hear the trusty click from the left side of the engine bay.

Now my question is;
Should i buy 4 new 14v beru 0100 231 107 or something else ?

 

[lostmarbles]

....
Now my glow system is like this; 1 cable directly to the bussbar that connects to the 4 plugs and a starter relais and a glow relais like ik the attached pictures(they where already in the 12V wiring loom in the carrocery from the bj73 vm5 engine that i throw over the 24V 3B and shassis.
The relais seem to operate well from inside of the truck when i turn the key the glow light works and a while after the light goes of and i hear the trusty click from the left side of the engine bay.
Now my question is;
Should i buy 4 new 14v beru 0100 231 107 or something else ?

Well if you're cruiser is now 12V you certainly shouldn't be running 14V plugs.

You say, if I'm reading you correctly, that a cable feeds 12V direct to your busbar. And I assume that "light" you talk about is wired on a timer.. If it is indeed on a simple timer, how many seconds does is the timer set for?

If the light goes out after around 20 seconds (no matter how warm the engine is) then you have the "fixed delay preheat setup" described in the first post of this thread and should be running a matched set of one of these plugs (for a 12V cruiser):

Or if you like Beru plugs (and again only if I'm right about your preheat system being 12V fed to your plugs with a 20 second timer) then I think their 10.5V plug is GV 897 (0100 226 182) so I reckon you should go for a matched set of those..

 

[buschmaster86]

Right now im i a standby state ofconsciousness id like to come back on this later

But youre a legend for sure !!

 

[buschmaster86]

Good,i entered the vin of the 1989 BJ73LV-MPW into toy diy parts reference and this came out;
http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_E_1989_TOYOTA_LAND CRUISER_BJ73LV-MPW_1901.html

That matches with the expeptions for 12v cruisers LM described in the first post of this link; https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/which-plugs-should-i-be-running-b-2b-3b-h-and-2h-diesels.471567/

So i think i need this for my cruiser; 19850-64031 BOOST VENTILATOR-GV=12V-11V

and not the
19850-68051 -GV=12V-6V, *12V-6V that is for the super glow systems right ? (i dont believe i have a super glow system in the wiring of the Salvador Caetano body but if someone can tell me how to be a 100% sure that would be perfect !

 

[buschmaster86]

Well if you're cruiser is now 12V you certainly shouldn't be running 14V plugs.

You say, if I'm reading you correctly, that a cable feeds 12V direct to your busbar. And I assume that "light" you talk about is wired on a timer.. If it is indeed on a simple timer, how many seconds does is the timer set for?

If the light goes out after around 20 seconds (no matter how warm the engine is) then you have the "fixed delay preheat setup" described in the first post of this thread and should be running a matched set of one of these plugs (for a 12V cruiser):

View attachment 1072586

Or if you like Beru plugs (and again only if I'm right about your preheat system being 12V fed to your plugs with a 20 second timer) then I think their 10.5V plug is GV 897 (0100 226 182) so I reckon you should go for a matched set of those..

Yes mister LM its for sure a 12V cruiser without a doubt 2 12v optima red top batterys the +to the + and the - to the - connected.(also in the picture of my starter relais you can see 12v) so the 14v plugs i can trow away already !

There is a cable black and red cable out of the vm5 wiring connected directly to the busbar indeed and into the black bosch glow relais as in the picture to what else its connected also i dont know because in comes out of a fat black covered wiring harness.

Its certainly no 20 seconds and sometimes it glows longer and sometimes shorter.

The timer is that black Bosch 0 333 402 520 in this pic(what it does i dont know. maybe its also connected to the starter relais and/or other things ?

This is how the light im talking about looks like;



I think the portugese spec black box bosch glow relais and how it funtions is what we need to find out with a multimeter to know what the right glowplugs wil be.

Or if somebody just has a simple tip to find out if there is some kind of super glow system in my Salvador Caetani bj73 body that would be welcome also !

 

[lostmarbles]

..Now my glow system is like this; 1 cable directly to the bussbar that connects to the 4 plugs ...

Sorry. When you wrote this, I thought you meant you knew this cable was supplying your 12V battery power direct to your busbar.

Yes mister LM its for sure a 12V cruiser without a doubt 2 12v optima red top batterys the +to the + and the - to the - connected.(also in the picture of my starter relais you can see 12v) so the 14v plugs i can trow away already !...

So from this we can at least be certain that your cruiser is indeed 12V and that therefore those old 14V plugs (that are meant for a 24V cruiser that is equipped with superglow) are definitely useless to you now.

...and a starter relais and a glow relais like ik the attached pictures(they where already in the 12V wiring loom in the carrocery from the bj73 vm5 engine that i throw over the 24V 3B and shassis....

"Carrocery" means "body" in my language as I understand it.

So you are saying your wiring loom, that includes whatever is upstream of your "cable to your glow plug busbar" is from a 1989 BJ73 that was running a peculiar 2.5L 5-cylinder diesel called a VM5 (that was fitted to some European BJ73 models to reduce costs and gave very unreliable service).

Unfortunately I wouldn't have a clue which plugs that 5 cylinder VM5 Italian engine (made by VM Motori which is apparently wholly owned by FIAT) was supposed to run and therefore I don't know what may be included in that wiring to your glow plug busbar .

..I think the portugese spec black box bosch glow relais and how it funtions is what we need to find out with a multimeter to know what the right glowplugs wil be...

Yes. Good idea!

With those 14V plugs fitted in the engine, measure the voltage you get at the busbar during preheat and report back.

By the way - You'll need some plugs in place for the test (even though we know these 14V plugs are definitiely the wrong ones) to impose a current-load on the preheat system otherwise your voltage recording will be irrelevant/nonsense.

 

[bj40green]

This is what I find when I google for: Bosch 0 333 402 520

Which tells me that this is time and/or sensor controlled relay. It's used for several purposes and in a lot of car brands.
For your glow system; It's 12V in and 12V out so you should be fine with 10.5V glow plugs as Tom stated.

Rudi

 

[buschmaster86]

Ok thanks uncredible much again brothers,right now im leaning towards the 19850-64031BOOST VENTILATOR-GV=12V-11V as listed under exeptions in LM,s post nr 1 of page 1 of this thread.

Also because thats what toy diy comes up with,with the vin number of the Salvador Caetano body.(as wel as the 19850-68051BOOST VENTILATOR-GV=12V-6V, *12V-6V ) which i assume is for super glow equiped bodys but i still have to do some measurements to be sure

Ill be back on this later.

 

[buschmaster86]

Yes. Good idea!

With those 14V plugs fitted in the engine, measure the voltage you get at the busbar during preheat and report back.

By the way - You'll need some plugs in place for the test (even though we know these 14V plugs are definitiely the wrong ones) to impose a current-load on the preheat system otherwise your voltage recording will be irrelevant/nonsense.

I im a complete NOOB/DUMMY with any sort of electronics so here is a picture of my multimeter
And here,s one of the cable to the busbar

Do i have to put the red connector of the multimeter to the busbar and the black to massa and then turn the key to glow and read the multimeter ?
And what setting should i set the multimeter ?
I know these questions sound stupid but id rather have this completly totaly clear

 

[lostmarbles]

..right now im leaning towards the 19850-64031BOOST VENTILATOR-GV=12V-11V as listed under exeptions in LM,s post nr 1 of page 1 of this thread...

Why not I say..

I can't see there being much difference between an 11V plug and a 10.5V plug and those 11V plugs do indeed appear to be listed (by Toyota) as having been factory-installed in some Aug 1988 to Jan 1990 12V BJ7# cruisers (as noted at the bottom of the first post in this thread).

...Also because thats what toy diy comes up with,with the vin number of the Salvador Caetano body.(as wel as the 19850-68051BOOST VENTILATOR-GV=12V-6V, *12V-6V ) which i assume is for super glow equiped bodys but i still have to do some measurements to be sure..Ill be back on this later.

Anybody know why the EPC is calling a glow plug a "BOOST VENTILATOR".

I can't remember noticing this before ....

Maybe it's just another EPC error because there are plenty of those....

I im a complete NOOB/DUMMY with any sort of electronics so here is a picture of my multimeter.......And here,s one of the cable to the busbar

Do i have to put the red connector of the multimeter to the busbar and the black to massa and then turn the key to glow and read the multimeter ?
And what setting should i set the multimeter ?......

I'm not familiar with that multimeter but I'd slide the top swtich to the far left (V) and dial the centre knob to 20 and then, as you say, the red lead to the busbar and the black to the masa/body/engine-block while someone turns the key to "glow".

 

[buschmaster86]

Why not I say..

I can't see there being much difference between an 11V plug and a 10.5V plug and those 11V plugs do indeed appear to be listed (by Toyota) as having been factory-installed in some Aug 1988 to Jan 1990 12V BJ7# cruisers (as noted at the bottom of the first post in this thread).



Anybody know why the EPC is calling a glow plug a "BOOST VENTILATOR".

I can't remember noticing this before ....

Maybe it's just another EPC error because there are plenty of those....



I'm not familiar with that multimeter but I'd slide the top swtich to the far left (V) and dial the centre knob to 20 and then, as you say, the red lead to the busbar and the black to the masa/body/engine-block while someone turns the key to "glow".

Yes i dont like it at all they call a glowplug a "boost ventilator"

There is also a 70amp fuse that burned me 2 times and the picture bj40green posted shows 70AMP on that relais so i think the 14v glowplugs are the reason for that fuse to burn.

ill order 4 19850-64031 12V-11V and not the 10.5,s also because you say it doesnt make much difference and it fits your 1 post in this thread.

Any brand recomendations for the plugs ? (i like Beru and i see they have a good reputation )

 

[lostmarbles]

If I had a preference for particular brands in the past, I don't anymore because brands seem to keep changing their products.
As you say, Beru have a good reputation. Looks like Beru GN043 are the ones then..

 

[buschmaster86]

yes from what i can find most people like beru and bosch less because they are made in india or something.

But the beru you advise the GN043 is a 11v, and the toy diy comes up with 19850-64031(Toyota) with the vin of the body that has the relais as shown in my pictures and that would be the beru 0100226475 edit!; o s*** while writing this i see the short number for the beru 0100226475 IS GN043 so theyre the same !

Well then its gonna be the beru 0100226475 also called GN043 then !

Ill inform you guy,s how she wil probably fire right up now when i turn the key just a little

 

[buschmaster86]

thanks all ! she starts within 1 rev !

 

[bellaire35]

Want to say thank you to lostmarbles and bj40green for helping sort out my bj40 glow plug and glow controller issue. I now have a fully functioning glow controller And the proper glowplugs! I must admit I was a bit lucky on the combination of the two to make this work as it did the day they were installed. The controller has only two loops and just gave the parts guy at the counter in Costa Rica a list of 8.5v plugs from this thread!

This is after 15sec but it works and now on to other needed repairs

 

[chimo]

I have an lj 73 1989 with a 2lt, I've changed my glow plug system to the Wilson switch type. I need to change my glow plugs, originally they were the super glow system, now I will be feeding 12v direct battery from relay, original plug # is 19850-54071 should I change and use 19850-68010? Are they the same fit into head?

Glowplug selection seems to be a common issue amongst many owners of classic indirect-injection diesel landcruisers.

While glow plug manufacturers/distributors put out "selection catalogs", most of these catalogs have accumulated numerous errors.

So as a solution, I've tried to put together an alternative selection method as a trial.

Models affected:
BJ40, BJ41, BJ42, BJ43, BJ44, BJ45, BJ46 (running B, 2B or 3B engines depending on the model)
BJ60 (running the 3B engine)
BJ70, BJ73, BJ75 (running the 3B engine)
HJ45, HJ47 (running the H or 2H engine respectively)
HJ60 (running the 2H engine)
HJ75 (running the 2H engine)

My selection method here is based on my belief that, apart from a few minor exceptions, these cruisers can use just 6 glow plugs in all. And I believe which one an individual cruiser should use depends simply on the battery power supply available (whether 12 or 24 volt) and on which type of pre-heat system is fitted. (Glow Controller, Fixed Delay, or Super Glow)

Anyway, here is my selection guide (from which I hope you can select the correct plug for your indirect injection diesel landcruiser):

Guide to glow plug selection​

BTW - The yellow type signifies "24 volt cruiser information".


12 Volt

Glow controller 8.5V
Toyota 19850-68030, NGK Y-128T, Denso DG234
APS 5013, EIKO GT208, JKT PT104, MAY PT104
Bosch GPT208, VSP PT104, Champion CH121, HKT PT104
Warning! While these plugs are CLAIMED to be equivalent to each other - their current-draw does vary from brand to brand and so unfortunately some of them may not glow your Controller properly!!! (See post #54 for further information.)

Here reduced-voltage is fed to the glowplug busbar via a dash-mounted glow controller during pre-heating. This glow controller (which consists of a coil of resistance-wire behind a viewing hole) gradually brightens to "red-hot" (or even to "bright orange" depending on the model) after 15 to 20 seconds to give a visual indication that your plugs are hot enough for you to start cranking your engine.

Fixed delay 10.5V
Toyota 19850-68010, NGK Y-147T, Denso DG232
Bosch GPT218, Champion CH133, HKT PT 145

Here the busbar receives approximately the full battery voltage during pre-heating (because no glow controller or other type of resistor is fitted upstream). There is a glow-light (pre-heat light) on the dashboard that illuminates during pre-heating and extinguishes after a fixed time delay of between 15 and 20 seconds to tell you when to start cranking.

Owners often create a similar set-up that requires the same plugs (where the busbar again gets connected directly to the battery without any resistance device fitted inbetween) when their factory-wired pre-heating systems become troublesome. In such cases the dash-mounted momentary switch used to manually energize the glowplug busbar is commonly referred to as a “Wilson Switch”. And because no timer is used, the driver must estimate the pre-heat duration themselves.
A big advantage here is that the Wilson Switch allows the driver to smooth out a rough cold-idle by providing "After Glow". (The Wilson Switch can be used to re-energise the busbar once the engine is running.)

Super glow 6V
Toyota 19850-68050 (or 68051), Denso DG220
Bosch GPT214, Champion CH125, HKT PT146

Here the Toyota engineers sped-up the pre-heating procedure by using faster heating plugs (lower voltage plugs). They also installed two stages of pre-heat, and automated both these pre-heating durations according to coolant/block temperature and other factors. The first stage connects the busbar directly to the battery (12V) and the second stage (after-glow) drops this voltage to somewhere close to the plugs nominal voltage (6V).
Like the "Fixed Delay system" there is again a glow light (pre-heat light) that is extinguished to tell you when to crank. However here it illuminates for a much shorter time. (Typically just 2 or 3 seconds.)


24 Volt

Glow controller 20.5V
Toyota 19850-68040, NGK Y-178T, Denso DG235
Bosch GPT207, Champion CH122, HKT PT109
Warning! While these plugs are CLAIMED to be equivalent to each other - their current-draw does vary from brand to brand and so some of them may not glow your Controller properly!!! (See post #54 for further information.)

Here reduced-voltage is fed to the glowplug busbar via a dash-mounted glow controller during pre-heating. This glow controller (which consists of a coil of resistance-wire behind a viewing hole) gradually brightens to "red-hot" (or even to "bright orange" depending on the model) after 15 to 20 seconds to give a visual indication that your plugs are hot enough for you to start cranking your engine.

Fixed delay 23V
Toyota 19850-68020, Denso DG233, EIKO GT213
Bosch GPT213, HKT PT108, MAY PT108, JKT PT108,

Here the busbar receives approximately the full battery voltage during pre-heating (because no glow controller or other type of resistor is fitted upstream). There is a glow-light (pre-heat light) on the dashboard that illuminates during pre-heating and extinguishes after a fixed time delay of between 15 and 20 seconds to tell you when to start cranking.

Owners often create a similar set-up that requires the same plugs (where the busbar again gets connected directly to the battery without any resistance device fitted inbetween) when their factory-wired pre-heating systems become troublesome. In such cases the dash-mounted momentary switch used to manually energize the glowplug busbar is commonly referred to as a “Wilson Switch”. And because no timer is used, the driver must estimate the pre-heat duration themselves.
A big advantage here is that the Wilson Switch allows the driver to smooth out a rough cold-idle by providing "After Glow". (The Wilson Switch can be used to re-energise the busbar once the engine is running.)

Super glow 14V
Toyota 19850-68060, NGK Y-197R, Denso DG222
Bosch GPT217, Champion CH104, HKT PT141

Here the Toyota engineers sped-up the pre-heating procedure by using faster heating plugs (lower voltage plugs). They also installed two stages of pre-heat, and automated both these pre-heating durations according to coolant/block temperature and other factors. The first stage connects the busbar directly to the battery (24V) and the second stage (after-glow) drops this voltage to somewhere close to the plugs nominal voltage (14V).
Like the "Fixed Delay system" there is again a glow light (pre-heat light) that is extinguished to tell you when to crank. However here it illuminates for a much shorter time. (Typically just 2 or 3 seconds.)



Exceptions:

Toyota lists Aug 1988 to Jan 1990 12V BJ70, BJ73, HJ60, and HJ75 cruisers as running 11V plugs (Part number 19850-64031)

Originally I had listed more "exceptions" here (copied from various plug catalogs) but my research of the Toyota EPC didn't clearly back them up.

However I suspect pre-1975/76 diesels (BJ40 & HJ45) may not comply with this guide. But even then, non-compliance may really be limited to simply pre-June 1973 HJ45 (H) models ---- My research isn't conclusive.


Note:
If anyone at all (not just the owners of pre 1975/76 diesels) finds their engine doesn't run the plugs in this guide ... then PLEASE add a post to this thread so we can work out why (and so we can have real evidence for others to take note of).

This thread is basically about "factory wiring". But even if a previous owner has tampered with it, I'm hoping information here will still offer useful guidance.

As far as I know, all of the very early diesels ran "Glow Controller pre-heat" and this form of pre-heat ceased for most models in late 1982 (but may have remained in some till late 1984) when Fixed Delay and Super Glow took over.

 

[lostmarbles]

I have an lj 73 1989 with a 2lt, I've changed my glow plug system to the Wilson switch type. I need to change my glow plugs, originally they were the super glow system, now I will be feeding 12v direct battery from relay, original plug # is 19850-54071 should I change and use 19850-68010? Are they the same fit into head?

Hi Chimo

I'm not familiar with the 2LT engine but 19850-54071 is a 6V plug and 19850-68010 is a 10.5V plug so on that basis you're on the right track.

However unfortunately I don't expect 68010 to fit your engine because I think 68010 is equivalent to PT145 in the following pic and 54071 is equivalent to PT147:

So on nthis basis I reckon the dimensions of 68010 are incompatible with your engine..

 

[Tasmanic]

Gday lostmarbles/Tom and gang, many thanks for an excellent thread/archive of invaluable info.
I fit into the 'global- transfer' category in that I brought my early 2H HJ60 with me from Tas when I moved to Germany. A 12v cruiser in 24v Europe is just the start of the confusion! Glowing problems solved thanks to info herein. Cheers (Wish it could be a Cascade Pale but it's a Fürstenberg Pils.. still,mustn't grumble)

 

[jzilla]

Great thread!
I picked up an 84 BJ60 (12 volt) a couple years back and have just started working on it.
The previous owner had wired in a manual glow button that has a wire running to the glow plug relay on the fender.
Anyhow, I thought I might as well pull a glow plug just to see which one he had in there...(I tested them all and they all had no continuity.)

Well someone put in the 14V plugs! 19850-68060. Obviously not the right plugs, they should be the 10.5 if going for a manual set-up.
Now I am debating...should I get the 19850-68050, which would be the correct ones for superglow to see if the system works? Or just go with the 10.5V and stick with the manual set-up.