Which end of the hammer do I hold? Noob knuckle rebuild

[SARCruiser]

Yes, the steering arms point out, toward the wheel. Did you end up replacing the tie rod end(s)? If so and it looks like the alignment is off, you may not have gotten the length quite right. The FSM should have the correct base length of each rod, end to end listed so you can reference that.

 

[snowboardonsnow]

I know you got it but the you have to turn the birfield until the flat spot is up.
Steering arms point out, you should be good. I would do a alignment because when you measure for alignment with bad bearings it may be different when the new ones are in and it is solid. Does that make sense? If there was play in them before. A 1/8 of a inch isnt uncommon with bad bearings.
I always seem so see a few spots of rust on the inside of diffs, if they have sat for a while. I dont know how but its always very minor.

 

[deaddrift]

How many times do I need to bleed the calipers? I have a super soft pedal. I'm still getting air and each side has been done 15-20 times (pump, crack bleeder til air stops coming out, close, repeat).

Please describe good brake bleeding procedure, it would be best if you assume I know nothing about the brake system, because i don't.

 

[FJ60Seth]

Is the bleeder at the top?

 

[deaddrift]

Bleeder's at the top. I've cycled at least two liters of brake fluid through the front lines, pouring in the MC, bleeding (with intermittent air bubbles) at the bleeder.

It's coming out green.

 

[deaddrift]

Earlier I came up with what I thought was a genius way to seat the axle seal in the hub, i used my magnetic bolt dish plus the big socket. Just the right size, magnetic so it stayed in place, soft so it won't mar, sweet dude! Pic #1.



I don't know why they paint the seal rim orange, the paint just flakes off and gets all over the place, see pic #2.



Didja see it? Didja?

















Once again Tony at LCNW to the rescue! The second time I remembered the bearing before I pressed in the seal. No orange on that seal either.


Bearing preload OK, hubs wrapped up and installed, brake shields trimmed, 4Runner calipers installed, wheels fit fine, and I can't get her on the road because I still can't seem to get the air out of the lines. (Also, I have the hump on the flat spring/anti-rattle plate/whatchamacallit up, not down, is this right and does it matter?)



I have not tried bleeding the back lines, because I've heard that it shouldn't be necessary. My son was pumping the pedal for me while I closed and opened the bleeder. I did have dead jr. pump also while the bleeder was open, as well as closed per the FSM. Occasionally I'd get solid brake fluid but then more air, over and over. Sometimes the pedal would firm up for my son, but then it would sponge again. Right now it goes to the floor, motor off or on. The front T fitting is on the left on my truck (not sure about FJ's) and I did the right caliper first. Afterwards I kept going back and forth, one to the next, same story. There are no leaks that I can find, certainly none at any of the fittings I opened and resealed. The calipers and pads were the only change. Oh yeah, what did you think about my solvent stash?

When I put brake fluid in the MC it always starts off by re-establishing a fluid level that appears the same as before I started pouring. That is, I'm adding fluid but the level doesn't go up right away. Eventually it does go up. There was fluid visible in the MC central chamber when I first opened it.

What goes on here? Any advice?

[EDIT] I just thought of something. Would it matter that the cylinders are bigger, and the rotor is thinner? (I'm RIGHT on the minimum grind thickness, in fact the inside of the DS rotor is a little pitted still.) That might cause mushiness, right? But why the air?

 

[snowboardonsnow]

I think you may be pumping too much and getting air in the resistor before you now it. I would fill the res, do say 6 pumps top it off do that again top it off and repete on the other side that should be way more then enough. It takes way less pumps then you think the bleed out the interest break line, they diameter on the inside is so small. That plus our res is tiny. And just caus it looks like there's is fluid In the res its probably running out.

But I don't know, start there I guess, I don't think the runner cals and thin rotors would be the problem, they would still stiffen up.

 

[TS888]

Likewise on the brakes, less is more. And don't pump while the bleeder valve is closed, that's not necessary.

I would bleed the rears, you could have pushed some air into those lines with the bleeding exercise. Also, how is the adjustment on the rear drums?

No criticism directed at you, Dead, but people overthink brake bleeding. I bleed simple brakes (non-abs systems like the 60) with a plastic drink bottle part full of fluid and a length of hose. I open the bleeder, stick the hose on it, and pump the pedal 4 or 5 times. The other end of the hose is submerged in the fluid in the drink bottle, so no air can come back in. Works every time.

 

[FJ60Seth]

...people overthink brake bleeding. I bleed simple brakes (non-abs systems like the 60) with a plastic drink bottle part full of fluid and a length of hose. I open the bleeder, stick the hose on it, and pump the pedal 4 or 5 times. The other end of the hose is submerged in the fluid in the drink bottle, so no air can come back in. Works every time.

That is a cheap, easy and reliable way to bleed brakes.

 

[deaddrift]

No criticism directed at you, Dead, but people overthink brake bleeding. I bleed simple brakes (non-abs systems like the 60) with a plastic drink bottle part full of fluid and a length of hose. I open the bleeder, stick the hose on it, and pump the pedal 4 or 5 times. The other end of the hose is submerged in the fluid in the drink bottle, so no air can come back in. Works every time.

This is exactly how I did it, and the pedal goes all the way down. I also tried the FSM method which involves pumping with the line closed; same pedal travel either way. I am not seeing the air today. That, combined with the very rare and very temporary firming or partial firming of the pedal that my son reported, made me think the internal MC seals were shot from having opened the lines and losing fluid from the front. I've read the plunger(?) can travel into rusty territory in these conditions and damage seals.

The fluid was dark, the MC had crap in it, the brakes just wouldn't take, so I bought a new (reman) FJ60 MC. My mom is visiting but I am going to try to install it tomorrow.

Thanks so much guys for all the suggestions. I owe you a

 

[deaddrift]

She lives!

Well at long last I have managed to procure a brake master cylinder that DOESN'T leak and have successfully installed it in the cruiser. The brakes work great, I bedded them in this afternoon.

I also thought I'd allow myself a new profile pic; I feel like I earned it. It's from the front differential, so I paid for that photo.



Still haven't engaged the front drivetrain so I've got some more investigation to do, but the clicking and grinding are gone, so some improvement anyway. Goodness knows I'd be pissed if not. Thought I'd get the front axle going tomorrow on gravel instead of pavement. If I have problems in 4wd I'll post up, naturally.

 

[deaddrift]

“If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.” – Isaac Newton, 1676

I’m not much of a wrench—though I know a little more now than when I started this thread—so I thought it would be a good idea to put all the materials I needed, and online tech resources I relied on, in one post so others could see what I found helpful. I used all of those tools, and almost all of these links (plus some others that I can’t recall). Needless to say, the fact that so many other mudders were willing to help out was absolutely invaluable. Thank you! I also leaned VERY heavily on my outstanding LC-specialist mechanics, Willamette Boulevard Service Center here in Portland OR, though looking back I see I didn’t mention it. Josh and Larry are absolutely the salt of the earth. Tony at Land Cruisers Northwest also bailed me out a couple of times, much appreciation to both excellent shops.



FSM: I have a body & chassis full service manual that I downloaded a while ago, and had my wonderful wife print and bind for me. No idea where I found the document though. But searching for it got me to the below pages. There is a TON of good tech available for download at these links:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/185322-online-manuals.html
Toyota Workshop & Repair Manuals - Page: 1
Toyota Factory Service Manuals (FSM) - all years - YotaTech Forums



For this job I referred to these webpages.

Knuckle rebuild tutorial videos (from mud user lshobie):
Land Cruiser rear hub/axle service, bearings, axle, seals, gasket etc - YouTube
Toyota Land Cruiser front Knuckle rebuild tutorial #2 installation - YouTube
And many mud threads as well. Search was my friend.

Hub rebuild thread and video (video again from lshobie):
https://forum.ih8mud.com/79-95-toyo...ng-aisin-locking-hub-locking-hub-rebuild.html
Aisin Manual hub (free wheeling hub) rebuild Toyota Land Cruiser- YouTube

4runner Brakes threads:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/84730-4runner-brake-install-pics.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...-rotors-backing-plate-eliminator-install.html
I ran into some trouble with my brake master cylinder, seems like it’s not too uncommon when replacing calipers:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/603225-rth-my-brake-mc-makes-me-want-kill-something.html
PART 1 - Brake pedal goes to floor


Other helpful links:

IH8MUD 60 series FAQs:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/13183-fj60-fj62-faq-start-here-come-back-often.html

Electronic Parts Catalog (found this after my repair was 99% done, could make ordering parts much easier):
https://forum.ih8mud.com/sc-upstate-cruisers/191314-great-cruiser-parts-link-thread.html
ToyoDIY.com

All of lshobie's tutorial video links in one post:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...-rebuild-video-tutorial-uploaded-youtube.html



This is a materials list of what I used on this job, your mileage may vary. I tried not to leave anything out, suggestions for overlooked items welcomed:

TOOLS
o Auto tools: torque wrench, sockets, breaker bar, wrenches, jack stands, etc.
o BFH and brass drifts, I used one small one and one large one. Use safety glasses.
o Snap ring pliers, very important
o Dremel with cutoff wheels, grinder wheel, and wire wheel
o hand wire brushes for parts cleaning
o torch (for stuck stuff)
o 54mm socket
o fish scale
o tie rod separator (screw type, NOT pickle fork). One trick for separating the TRE, put tension on the stud with the separator and then smack the steering arm about half-way down, the vibrations will loosen the stud. Or so I’ve read, but didn’t try…

PARTS
o new TRE boots (I used a pickle fork )
o complete front axle rebuild kit from Cruiser Outfitters, incl. Marlin axle seals instead of OEM (though I didn’t actually get these)
o also get a spare hub seal (goes over inner wheel bearing, they're hard to get in straight—or in the right order, ahem—and easy to screw up)
o Reman ’95 V6 4runner calipers, plus brake pads
o Reman fj60 brake master cylinder
o I also needed to purchase (cheap) a used short side axle and a couple of new birfield inner snap rings from Willamette Blvd. I got a free extra détente ball and spring for the hub face, plus the spare inner hub seal, from LCNW. I also bought some little stuff from the dealer. None of that was cheap though.

SUPPLIES/CONSUMABLES
o penetrating lubricant, apply early and often
o wheel bearing grease
o box of rubber/nitrile gloves, plus 2 pair heavy rubber gloves
o brake cleaner
o brake fluid
o tub of mineral spirits/gasoline for parts cleaning
o cotter pins for TRE (I reused my old ones)
o primer and paint if you repaint your axle/knuckles (though I didn’t, you might as well, they'll be as clean as they’ll ever get now)
o cheapo toothbrushes
o MANY rolls of paper towels. Like five or six. I used most of two boxes.
o I also put the whole shebang on top of a ¼” plywood sheet to keep the driveway clean.
o Gasket, and gear oil, if you open your diff like I did.

Many thanks again to all the folks willing to help. Let me know if you're in the Portland OR area and we can compare rides, and after that I'll show you why they call this place 'beervana.'

 

[60Works]

Hey Dead,

I've been watching this post and would like to say that it's great how you jumped into this project. You started with a bearing change and ended up completely rebuilding your knuckles and adding a brake mod. Kudos to you. It's also been good to see how willing Mudders were to help you.

I attached your photo from a previous post because I noticed that the new bearing cone isn't installed under the seal. Did you remedy that before installing the hub on the knuckle? If not, its got to come back off before you let the truck off the jack stands.

I hope I'm misstaken and am looking at the picture wrong. Anybody else see it the way I do?

 

[deaddrift]

I was so excited by my brainstorm about how to seat the hub seal that I did the second one right after the first. Then I looked at it again and

So I pounded the seal out, got a spare, and put that one in AFTER the bearing

I probably should have been more clear. Good looking out, thanks for the catch.

I definitely could not have finished this job without the help of the board. I know how all the stuff under the front works now, except for maybe some of the nitty gritty concerning the differential. It feels great to have a good sized task under my belt, and I'm looking forward to getting some more repairs completed bit by bit. Long term plans include a turbo, 4.11s, 33s. I'm hoping to find a good transplant body and frame so I can leave the rust behind; ideally a 62 for the reinforced frame, power accessories, and factory 4.11 diffs. If I do find a good 62 candidate I will also be doing a round eye conversion and, if it has a grey interior, a 60 dash conversion because I like it old school. Board member mel lowe is wrapping the second of two 3B-->62 conversions right now and is an inspiration to me, not that I have anything like his skill set. Here is his current thread, it's in the diesel section: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/524666-bj62-build.html

First things first though. Next week my son and I are headed off to eastern OR and northern Nevada to do some camping, fishing, etc. Been looking forward to this trip for months now.

 

[60Works]

has happened to all of us. Glad it was a simple fix.

A 'transplant body and frame'? Maybe just look for a second truck.

I look forward to seeing your build up posts.

 

[BulletHead]

What did you do about the brownish marks on your spindle? Is that just wear or pitting marks?