When replacing transfer to trans seal... (1 Viewer)

[honk]

People really do the job with the trans. left in and bolted? I'd think that the crossmember would keep the transfercase from backing out far enough to get clear of the trans. output shaft but I've never tried it. Seemed easier to drop the whole thing out of there and then fix it.

I've got a piece of old spring that's been an emergency puller before. It'll probly need some new holes added for this -a precision multipurpose tool

 

[Diescipel]

People really do the job with the trans. left in and bolted? I'd think that the crossmember would keep the transfercase from backing out far enough to get clear of the trans. output shaft but I've never tried it. Seemed easier to drop the whole thing out of there and then fix it.

I've got a piece of old spring that's been an emergency puller before. It'll probly need some new holes added for this -a precision multipurpose tool

I was recommended to remove the tranny cross piece and let the whole thing tip down. There was no way I could get to the upper bolts with my aftermarket Alu tub. However, I've yet to do it to find out how it works.

B

 

[PabloCruise]

Dang - you guys are freaking me out here!

I thought this was a quickie - pull the e-brake to make room in front of crossmemeber and seperate the two...

Will a harmonic balancer puller work?

 

[PVCruiser]

Just pull the whole thing. I've pulled T-case and Tranny out of my '55 and '40 a couple of times each to replace the clutch setup. It's not hard. Read up in a good land cruiser manual, take steroids, and you are all ready to go ( I actually have pulled and installed T-case and Tranny by muscle, but I don't recommend it). Definitely remove all linkage as it gets tangled and prevents movement just at the moment you need it most. Don't get psyched out on this one. It’s easier than you think.

 

[honk]

Dang - you guys are freaking me out here!

I thought this was a quickie - pull the e-brake to make room in front of crossmemeber and seperate the two...

Will a harmonic balancer puller work?

It really can go easy, or it can go hard. If it's been done before it should go easier than if not, but if the oil has passed between the two and got hot enough to cook onto the tranny output shaft it'll go hard. I just now finished pulling mine apart on the bench and it took the use of my makeshift but excellent puller all the way. The T/C wasn't fee to finish sliding off until the tranny output gear was all the way off the splined portion of the trans output. I've done this job twice before on other FJ40s and while different both were easier than this one.

The puller should use the cover bolt holes with bolts that thread in pretty far - more than 1/2" to lessen the chance of stripping out the holes in the soft aluminum. Whatever is to be the center of the puller should point into the trans output shaft hole so those threads will stay safe but like wesintl kinda' said above - any way that works is a good way. This transfer case started out about 1/2" and stopped. I could spin the T/c on the tranny shaft so I thought about trying a puller that would reach over the edges of the case with it's "L" shaped legs but I'm glad I didn't because I think the force could have been enough to break the edge of the case. That would have been my three legged bearing or harmonic balancer puller, size large.

BTW, you do know that two of the bolts that hold the T/C to the trans are inside under the PTO cover? This in case you didn't know that, meant to help.

 

[PabloCruise]

i just unbolt it and wedge it up on the crossmember, then drop the tcase.

in case you don't know...the seal goes in "backwards". so the flat section faces the inner portion of the tcase. i did it wrong once before i learned....never forgot that one.

Hmmm...

On this thread:

Here

they are talking about installing the seal this way (spring towards t-case)

As I recall teh correct position of the seal is "spring side towar the t-case"

not wanting to beat a dead horse, but just want to get this done right...

 

[PabloCruise]

Hmmm...

On this thread:

Here

they are talking about installing the seal this way (spring towards t-case)

As I recall teh correct position of the seal is "spring side towar the t-case"

not wanting to beat a dead horse, but just want to get this done right...

Can anyone else comment regarding seal orientation?

Ige says spring side towards transmission, others say spring side towards t-case?

Also, are staked nuts reusable?

 

[Poser]

Spring towards the trans....that is how I have found all of them...


Stake nuts are not meant to be reused, but have been when out in the field, along with red locktite..You are at home, get the right parts, and do it right....oh, and red locktite is your friend, ALONG with staking the new nuts..


Good luck!


-Steve

 

[honk]

PabloCruise,
Sorry I didn't notice that you'd asked about the whichway of the seal. I'd rely on what Poser just said - he's probly done a few hundred of them by now. Also, the seal in the one I'm doing right now was spring side toward the transmission and I haven't found anything at all in the whole job that would make me think that the tranny and transfercase had ever been seperated since it's original installation. The two previous times had it that way and that's how I installed the new ones. Neither one has leaked since so far as can be determined.

 

[PabloCruise]

Update

Well I ran out of daylight last night, so I don't have the t-case off. But it did start sliding off the shaft when I got all 5 bolts out.

FWIW, I am really puzzled by the contrasting opinions on this dam seal!

I posted the question about seal orientation at the same time on the LCML. Mark W weighed in and said

I would assume that the proper orientation is with the spring toward the T/C. This is how all are installed originally and how I always install them.

LCML

Wow! I respect both Poser and Mark, so why the diff, esp when saying, this is how I found 'em? Do you think half the orig Toyota employees put em in one way, and half the other?

Someone pointed me towards a write up of the Marlin Toybox install, says flat side towards t-case...

ToyBox install

Lastly, someone sent me a link to the LCML archives where they talked about a double lip seal for 62 t-cases...

LCML - double lip seal in 62 cases

I'll get the case off today and take a pic of how I find the seal. Still confused as to why Steve C. finds them all one way and Mark Whatley finds them all the other.

I'll also take my old seal to my favorite supply co and see if they have a double lip replacement.

 

[Recon1504]

When I took mine off, the flat side was towards the transmission. That is how I put it back on. I am getting ready to pull the body so now is the time to fix it if it needs to be changed. Minor details overlooked sometimes have the potential to cause the most grief.

 

[PabloCruise]

Got t-case off - you can drop it while leaving transmission in vehicle. (Awkward, but no more awkward than lying under there and re-installing oil pan.)

Flat side of seal was facing towards the t-case.

I have no way of knowing if this was the original seal or not. But from the looks of things, it had been overfilling the transmission for a long time. All kinds of dried gear oil on the top of trans and t-case.

Good news is my rear t-case output seal was sarting to weep a little. Parking brake components were dry though. And my brake drum does not have a groove on it...

I think I'll call my local Toy dealer tomorrow and ask what gives with this seal.

 

[PabloCruise]

When I took mine off, the flat side was towards the transmission. That is how I put it back on. I am getting ready to pull the body so now is the time to fix it if it needs to be changed. Minor details overlooked sometimes have the potential to cause the most grief.

Recon - how did it work? Any leaking into transmission?

How many miles have elapsed since you did this?

 

[PabloCruise]

Update,

The Toyota parts book, Marlin Toybox install page and Orion install instructions show spring side of seal towards the transmission. So that is the way it is going back together tomorrow.

Also, I guess for 4 spd cases, you need a puller to get the bearing off the transmission output shaft.

Apparently, the 3 spd t-case bearings are a much looser fit, no puller needed.

 

[peterb]

Hey did you ever decide which way the seal was supposed to be installed? Spring toward the tranny or T/C?
Thanks
Peter

 

[nuclearlemon]

Hey did you ever decide which way the seal was supposed to be installed? Spring toward the tranny or T/C?
Thanks
Peter

spring towards tranny

 

[peterb]

Thanks I did it wrong yesterday and ruined the seal.

 

[PabloCruise]

Hang in there Peter!

It is a PITA project, but it beats running your t-case dry all the time and having a big, gooey mess under your Cruiser!

Do you have another seal on hand?

Glad to see this thread helping someone else!

 

[SteveO]

Just wondering if anyone has the part number for the seal. I looked at two different drawings and then ordered a few different seals I found around the tranny and t-case but none of them have a spring. Any one have a Toyota number? It's for a 77 FJ40 with 2F and 4 speed. Thanks. ...Steve

 

[ducktapeguy]

I don't how Toyota installed the seals from the factory. However, I do know those spring assisted seals are meant to seal in ONE direction only. The spring side (or non-flat side for those seals without a spring) should be facing the fluid that you're trying to seal in. That is how it was designed to work. Just look at any of the other seals on your car on the steering box, axles, etc. The spring side will always face inwards, torward the fluid. The theory behind it is, the pressure of the fluid will assist in keeping the seal held tight against the shaft or wall. If the fluid pressure were coming from the flat side, it would have a tendency to easily compress the spring (or seal) and allow fluid to pass. Unlike an O-ring, which seals equally well in either direction, there is a large difference in the sealing ability for these types of seals based on which side the pressure is coming from.

So if the fluid is transferring from the transfercase to the transmission, the spring should be facing the transfer case, because that is where the pressure is coming from. I always assumed that if there were to be a leak, that the fluid would flow "downhill" into the transfercase, but apparently it's just the opposite. Not sure why that is, seems to go against conventional thinking. Maybe Toyota didn't realize that the fluid would have a tendency to flow uphill when they installed the seal in the first place?

oh yeah, just like everything else in life, make sure it's lubed up properly. Dry fitting can damage the seal.

Edit: Damn, I didn't realize this thread was so old.