When modified 200s go the dealer for repairs

[NY2LA]

Rolled into a Toyota dealer's shop in urban New Jersey this morning to get their help with my Crawl Control/MTS system, and it was an interesting experience. All heads turning to gaze upon the unicorn...

The service manager seemed very competent. I was relieved to hear he previously worked in the custom accessory business. But he warned me that accessories might have to be removed, as a last resort, as they went through the "diagnostic chain." He also warned me things could take a lot of time. I was happy I avoided the dealers in New York $ity, having been presented with repair bills from them for other vehicles in the past. Now I wait and see what happens...

How do other folks handle visits to the dealer for service? How have people's mods affected their service outcomes and costs? Any warranty issues? Any differences between getting service at a dealer in areas with less off-roading vs more off-roading?

 

[tabraha]

Ours has the infamous "Lifetime Drivetrain Warranty" which means "free" lifetime oil changes to maintain it. It's a showstopper when my 5'6" school teacher wife rolls up in the service bay with the 34" Ridge Grapplers etc. It's definitely a dude magnet LOL. They've not had to do any diagnostics on it as it's been flawless (we're at 85k now on the 2016) so haven't had any opportunity for them to balk at anything but the service manager seems to be fine with it. There's a boatload of modded Tacomas that go in and out of these places already. It's just the 200 itself that is the oddity, not the mods to me.

They always comment that they love the fact we use our Land Cruiser as intended when we show them pics and videos from all over the country.

 

[04UZJ100]

How did the gazes compare to the women of NYC?

 

[NY2LA]

@tabraha Lifetime drivetrain warranty?

 

[tabraha]

@tabraha Lifetime drivetrain warranty?

It's a thing the local dealer does. Sounds very hokey/scammish but my in-laws have a Sienna with 200k+ on it and the dealer has taken care of them on everything that's popped up on it. They "give" you oil changes for life but count on finding things non-drivetrain related and getting a return on all of that work. They also know you'll be into the dealership every 3-4 months and will on occasion make a run at you on a trade in etc.

My FIL also got a "Lifetime Tire" plan that they no longer offer but still honor. He's put at least 4 sets of Michelins on that Sienna for the up front $1k the plan cost him at purchase.

 

[Sandroad]

Some time ago @Markuson posted a photo of his truck at a dealer that was a hoot. Probably a handful of dealers ever see a cruiser that isn't just back from the mall.

 

[bentonrover]

So let's see what the fuss is all about lol. I live close to 3 (15 miles radius) dealerships and none of them ever have LC of any years for sale or service. Wonder why?

 

[Lester did that]

Curious what are the mods you have done that would interfere with diagnosing an issue with crawl control/MTS?

The only time I go to the dealership is to buy parts. There is a reason people call them the "stealership"! I just moved out of NYC. Never trusted them to work on a LC. Had a guy on Northern Blvd tell me straight to my face I am a moron. The LC does not have KDSS. I have found that rural mechanics seem to be more honest. They have a reputation to keep and generally get new clients from referrals. They also see every kind of vehicle so they know how to work outside the box. If they can't do the work they will gladly tell you someone that can get it done. And the best thing about using a rural mechanic. 98% of them have been working on cars before they hit puberty. They enjoy it and it's all they know.

 

[NY2LA]

Yes, I have a mechanic in rural New Hampshire who is one of the best!

I have a lot of electronic mods involving wires in that area, in the dash, and running through the firewall. They called me today and said my traction control switch isn't working, which they think is related to my reduced mode availability for crawl control and MTS. So now they are going to try to figure out why the traction control switch isn't working. Maybe I just nicked a wire--got a lot of them near that switch--or damaged something forcing cables through that brutally tight firewall.

 

[NY2LA]

Well, the local dealer couldn't find any error codes in Techstream. So they manually examined the circuitry for the MTS dial with a meter and found 4 "open" wires. The location of the wire damage is somewhere between the cabin side of the firewall and the SC ECU. Assuming the diagnosis is correct, I probably damaged the wires while running my accessory wiring. (My best guess is that fishing the mammoth Goal Zero charging cable through the firewall is what did me in.) The dealer refused to replace the damaged wire, because of all the aftermarket products I have with wires running through the firewall. Three other, non-dealer shops also refused the job. Apparently, opening up Land Cruiser wiring bundles running through a firewall and/or peeling apart 59-pin ECU connectors is not a popular task. But fortunately I found two audio shops who were comfortable taking this kind of work. Looks like this will be a big job: four needles in a haystack, and the haystack itself buried in a hard-to-reach hole. At least I have an excuse to get my remote starter done now. Wanted to give the shop something a little more comfortable to do at the same time.

A little disappointed with the Toyota dealer. But the service foreman, whom I can't blame for the dealer's policies, was a great guy. He printed out all the schematics and pictures from his manual for me and labelled the problem wires so that I a third-party could have a way of doing the work.

 

[HGB]

How did the gazes compare to the women of NYC?

Low blow bro

 

[04UZJ100]

I would caution you letting an audio shop begin tearing into a critical wiring harness on your Cruiser. Does 4lo work? If so, I highly doubt you’ll be in a situation where the one or two more MTS adjustment profiles means the difference between being stuck or not. Live with the defect as is and call it a learning experience.

As it stands you damaged a finite amount of wires - how are they going to locate the compromised section without re-pulling cabling through the firewall which could perhaps damage other components/wires.

 

[hickuptruck]

Low blow bro

I think OP was the same guy who posted about getting judgemental looks from women in NYC because of his built "redneck" looking 200.

 

[TN LX570]

If they know the 4 open wires, what is the needle in a haystack hunt for? From the MTS switch to the SC ECU those lines run through 3 or 4 connectors on the way there. If they narrowed it down that far it would seem much simpler to run 4 new wires from the last known connector with continuity to the SC ecu, than to peel apart the bundle.

Can you post a picture of that schematic they labeled?

 

[TeCKis300]

If they know the 4 open wires, what is the needle in a haystack hunt for? From the MTS switch to the SC ECU those lines run through 3 or 4 connectors on the way there. If they narrowed it down that far it would seem much simpler to run 4 new wires from the last known connector with continuity to the SC ecu, than to peel apart the bundle.

Can you post a picture of that schematic they labeled?

Great suggestion. That may ultimately be easier while maintaining the integrity of the main harness.

 

[NY2LA]

@thebigelf @TeCKis300 Schematics from dealer below. There are 4 wires that go through 2 intermediary connectors and then into a 59-pin connector that plugs into the SC ECU. I think the challenge lies in finding the intermediary connectors, figuring out which side of the connectors the issue is on, and potentially opening up the 59-pin connector (if necessary). Maybe for the audio shop, though, this will be straightforward? I just see a foreign language when I view the schematics.

 

[bloc]

In my experience pictures 1 & 4 are critical. Before letting the audio shop mess with it figure out a way to determine if they know how to use those effectively. Toyota’s wiring diagrams are excellent, but if the shop won’t or can’t use them they could do more harm than good.

As for the foreign language, the bottom of picture 1 shows your pin number and wire colors from the relevant switch and module, and which harness connectors (EA1, VE4) are in that circuit, then picture 4 shows where each of those connectors is. The top of picture 2 and picture 3 are your map of which pin is where on each of the relevant connectors. If the shop knows how to use these it is easy to go connector to connector and isolate the fault.

I think you are on the right track assuming it is through the firewall from your accessory install. @thebigelf is 100% correct suggesting running new wires to bypass the fault, vs opening the harness. If the shop can do this with a high quality install (soldering or even better a very high quality crimp job, protecting from vibration/weather, etc) it’ll outlast the truck. If they do a hack job it can turn into problems later.

The one advantage to opening the harness is other circuits can be inspected for damage that may not yet be evident via actual malfunction. But if a wire is damaged and barely holding on, it could be a big headache later. Fortunately everything is protected by fuse so if it does escalate you’ll know via functional issues or popped fuses before it turns into a fire or anything.

 

[NY2LA]

@bloc That makes a lot of sense; thank you.

Here's a question, though. Dealer said if those 4 wires are damaged, there could be others waiting to go. He said the firewall was overpacked and wasn't designed for all the accessory wires I have running through it. He also warned me about damaging circuits connecting to the ECU and the potential havoc that could arise. On the other hand, when the audio shop owner examined the firewall, he disagreed with the dealer and said the firewall area was not overly packed and was within reasonable limits.

Regardless of who's right about how packed/overpacked the firewall hole is, I'm thinking maybe the audio shop (which is really an audio/alarm/car electronics shop) should do a little more than bypass the bad wires? Maybe they should do their best to find the damage and check the surrounding area for other damage that could get worse over time? Or maybe that's a waste of time or an exercise that could incidentally lead to other damage?

Totally agree on doing it right. I feel in good hands with this shop. They seem to be the go-to place in the area when more generalized shops need electrical work done. They also have great reviews and a decent-size, busy facility that's been around a long time.

 

[TN LX570]

I think if I understand their handwritten notes, they are saying the line is good until EA1 and EA2. Like @bloc said you can see their location in the diagram and that would make sense with what you were told about being behind the firewall.

Both of those connectors are fairly easy to access once the bottom of the dash is popped out. (Not comfortable to reach, but not too difficult). Those are really small gauge wire, so they could run one like 4-22 awg ?cable to handle all of them.

If it were me, I think the easiest to start would be to pop the switch itself out, and run some wires from there around out the window and to the connector on the master cylinder. That way you can verify it fixes the issue quickly before running the new cable.

 

[bloc]

@bloc That makes a lot of sense; thank you.

Here's a question, though. Dealer said if those 4 wires are damaged, there could be others waiting to go. He said the firewall was overpacked and wasn't designed for all the accessory wires I have running through it. He also warned me about damaging circuits connecting to the ECU and the potential havoc that could arise. On the other hand, when the audio shop owner examined the firewall, he disagreed with the dealer and said the firewall area was not overly packed and was within reasonable limits.

Regardless of who's right about how packed/overpacked the firewall hole is, I'm thinking maybe the audio shop (which is really an audio/alarm/car electronics shop) should do a little more than bypass the bad wires? Maybe they should do their best to find the damage and check the surrounding area for other damage that could get worse over time? Or maybe that's a waste of time or an exercise that could incidentally lead to other damage?

Totally agree on doing it right. I feel in good hands with this shop. They seem to be the go-to place in the area when more generalized shops need electrical work done. They also have great reviews and a decent-size, busy facility that's been around a long time.

In a perfect world, open the harness and inspect everything. The problem is with where the damage likely is - lined up with the firewall itself - getting the room to open it and do an effective inspection probably requires removing the whole dashboard. And even then these harnesses are so thick and stiff they will likely be breaking mounting tabs and disturbing all kinds of other things. Personally letting a shop remove a dash on a new $80k vehicle is really low on my list of to-dos. There is a lot to get right when it goes back in.

But, depending on what they find that still might be the best way to proceed. Plus the dealer is correct.. the risk (I forgot to mention) is other bad wires cooking very expensive modules, not just fuses popping. Then again the wires you damaged could all be on the outside of the bundle and the shop confident nothing else is bad.

I trust an installer to know what can be put through a firewall grommet. They do that all the time.

Like I said I’d verify those diagrams aren’t a foreign language to the shop, then see what they find and what they recommend.