What Tranny behind 4BDT in FJ40 and other questions..

[twoturtlesracing]

Hello Guys!

I want to begin making the list of what parts to get to fit a 4BDT into my FJ40, and could use all of your thoughts and expertise.

DieselTim is getting ready to put conversion bellhousings into production for Dodge, GM, and Ford transmissions. Here is a link to this innovative product for 4BDT swaps: All New Adapter Housings for the 4BD

I am thinking of going with the GM adapter because I think that it would help with some clearance issues on the drivers side that others trying to put a 4BD into an FJ40 have encountered. Am I remembering correctly?

At this point, the GM adapter clocks the engine slightly like most 4BT adapters, but I believe that may get corrected after reading through the thread.

Am I missing anything up to this point?

-The Cruiser facts:

• 2F
• 4:11 gearing
• SOA
• 35's so I already have some overdrive.
• H41 with the 4.95:1 first and 1:1 final drive

-Questions:

• Could I make my current tranny work or do I need an overdrive to keep everything happy on the highway?
• Would you guys recommend a GM tranny?
• Auto or manual if GM?

I am sure there are other questions I should be asking, but one has to start somewhere right?

Thanks for everyones input!

 

[doug720]

Hey Tort,

I did a 4BD2tc swap into my 60 and used the H55 trans already in the Cruiser. I think there are pro and cons to any trans behind these engines, but I'm happy with mine.

These engines are happy around 2000-2150 cruise and any overdrive trans really helps, along with a little rubber overdrive (Taller tires). Theres also a lot of discussion about auto trans behind these engines.

If you search the diesel section of Mud for; dirtgypsy, flcruiser, longbow and many more, you will find great info and advice for these swaps. You can read about my swap on the link below my sig.

Also go to 4BT swaps and check out the Isuzu section for great info.

As for dieseltims new housing, it looks great, but the old adapter ring really helped my swap by moving the engine forward and keeping the trans/transfer and driveshafts in the stock locations. This also helps with driveline vibrations and saves a bunch of money too!

Looking forward to some pictures soon.

Doug

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Hey Tort,

I did a 4BD2tc swap into my 60 and used the H55 trans already in the Cruiser. I think there are pro and cons to any trans behind these engines, but I'm happy with mine.

These engines are happy around 2000-2150 cruise and any overdrive trans really helps, along with a little rubber overdrive (Taller tires).

If you search the diesel section of Mud for; dirtgypsy, flcruiser, longbow and many more of these swaps. You can read about my swap on the link below my sig.

Also go to 4BT swaps and check out the Isuzu section for great info.

As for dieseltims new housing, it looks great, but the old adapter ring really helped my swap by moving the engine forward and keeping the trans/transfer and driveshafts in the stock locations. This also helps with driveline vibrations and saves a bunch of money too!

Looking forward to some pictures soon.

Doug

Hello!

DirtGypsy's swap has always been the main motivation for my desire to go with a 4BDT. Great Rig! I have also read a few of the other threads but I don't believe that I have read yours so will absolutely do so.

Good thoughts on where the engine mounts. I will probably have to mod DS lengths no matter what tranny I use since I will more than likely have to a tranny with an overdrive, but if I could get away with out doing that, it would be awesome.

I really like the idea of an H55f, but they are spendy!

If you don't mind me asking, what is you're approximate distance from rear surface of engine to face of tranny?

Also, I still run into issues of starter to frame clearance in a 40 with the IDS ring...

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Actually... Take that back... I have read your swap, but will read it again!

 

[doug720]

There are ways to reclock the starter to help with clearance, and I've read on 4Bdswapws about other Isuzu starter options that are smaller and laid out differently. Just idea's, I had a 40 a long time ago, but don't recall the frame areas in relation toyour swap.

I moved my engine towards the passenger side a little, maybe 1.25 - 1.5", to help clear the steering box, as flcruiser and I think the others did also. I just kept the front to rear measurements stock.

The H55 is an overdrive trans, not the greatest overdrive ratio, but it is way better than the 4 speed. If you find a H55, your drive train stays stock, so that money can offset some of the trans costs, and you have to have some trans transmission anyway.

With 4:10's, 35" tires and H55, you should be close gearing wise. Do a gear calculator search and enter you numbers with H55 final OD ratio, which I don't remember, and try to get in 2000 - 2150 RPM range at the cruise speed you want.

Doug

 

[twoturtlesracing]

To swap to an h55f in an older 40 isn't neccessarily a bolt in affair:

Oh my, oh my. I just did this to my 1969 FJ40 and suspect your install will be about the same.



1. You will need a split transfer case to go along with the H55F



2. You will need a body lift. I have a 1 inch. I was told it was to clear the body from the rear of the tc, but it actually was to clear the passanger side of the split case. It's still very close.



3. You will need to remove the frame crossmember behind the tc. This combo is long. I installed a new one further back.



4. You might need to modify your doghouse. On mine, even with the 1 inch body lift, I don't have enough clearance on the top of the shifter housing. I've already cut a 5" hole (same size as the shifter boot) and it still doesn't clear. Some fabrication will be needed to raise up the middle of the doghouse. I don't know if a tranny tunnel from a later model will work.



5. You will need to retrofit the parking brake to the back of the split case. There are kits out there from several vendors. I did not go with the SOR kit, and I wish I had.



6. I haven't gotten to the point of even trying to see if the parking brake cable will hook up yet with this longer setup. I believe BTB Products carries a longer cable, and they are very proud of it ($$$).



7. You need a 4-speed bellhousing.



8. You will need to modify your drivelines.



9. pic here: Comcast



Good luck. Jon

 

[doug720]

The H55 has the same case size, but used a spacer between the it and the transfer case later models *at least in 60's). My understanding is you can use a H55 as a direct replacement of your H41/42.

Doug

 

[twoturtlesracing]

I like the idea of an H55F and you might be right, if I could get it to the stock location, it might be cheaper than buying the adapters, driveshafts, etc but preliminary research hasn't shown that to be very easy!

 

[longbow]

Hey Twoturtles,

Good to see you heading forward on this project!

I am in the middle of building my second 4BD1T and I plan to put it in a 40. Earlier in your thread you mentioned others having problems with the starter and frame clearances. I'm not to worried about that because others have found ways to clock the starter to take care of this or use one from the hitachi excavators or one of the 6BD1T generator starters. Who are the others that have had problems putting this engine into a 40? I searched all over and can't find anything except people looking for info and considering this swap, no actual swaps. Post up some links if you have any.

Thanks,

Don

PS. I think this guy has a better, more precise adapter for the GM trannys.Isuzu 4BD1T 4BD2T GM transmission adapter kit NOT 4BT | eBay
Personally I would go with the NV4500 tranny if I was to do it again. 27% overdrive versus the 16% of the H55 and it is a bigger more robust tranny and they can be had for around $1300 rebuilt with the 5th gear upgrade. Even with the AA adapter to mate it to the split case, you are still less than a new H55.
Just my 2c

 

[cult45]

Can't help, but sounds like a sweet swap.

Good luck man.

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Hey Twoturtles,

Good to see you heading forward on this project!

I am in the middle of building my second 4BD1T and I plan to put it in a 40. Earlier in your thread you mentioned others having problems with the starter and frame clearances. I'm not to worried about that because others have found ways to clock the starter to take care of this or use one from the hitachi excavators or one of the 6BD1T generator starters. Who are the others that have had problems putting this engine into a 40? I searched all over and can't find anything except people looking for info and considering this swap, no actual swaps. Post up some links if you have any.

Thanks,

Don

PS. I think this guy has a better, more precise adapter for the GM trannys.Isuzu 4BD1T 4BD2T GM transmission adapter kit NOT 4BT | eBay
Personally I would go with the NV4500 tranny if I was to do it again. 27% overdrive versus the 16% of the H55 and it is a bigger more robust tranny and they can be had for around $1300 rebuilt with the 5th gear upgrade. Even with the AA adapter to mate it to the split case, you are still less than a new H55.
Just my 2c

I'm on my phone right now so searching isn't practical, but I will try to find the thread where I thought I read the info about the starter.

Good info about the NV4500 rebuilt prices. That is one of the main trannies I have been considering. And the final overdrive would be good for fuel economy!

Where can I find more info on the starter options?

Sent from my iPhone/ IH8MUD app

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Links:

So in the long run, I would like this thread to be a go-to thread for Isuzu 4bdt into the FJ40 series, so I am going to link other threads that have valuable content here also. I will update with links as I find them.

The "Bible" for 4BD1/2T swaps/info:

• Isuzu 4BD1T swap?!

(Post #506 has downloads of Isuzu engine/tranny manuals, #641 has dyno chart for the U.S. version of the 4BD2-TC, )

Some good reading about tranny's and the 4BD:

• Isuzu 3.9 ( Auto conversion)

Gearing calculator:

• Gearing calculator

You know, I forget stuff because I try to remember it all in my head... I ran across this thread by Rhino, and all of a sudden remember what I had been seriously thinking about in terms of a Transmission! The R150 out of a Tacoma! Rhino has been running one in his FJ55 for 5 years now and hasn't had a probelem with it! He is using an IDS ring, an AA GM to R150 adapter, Crawl box, 4 spd tcase. Pretty long when it's all put together, So I need to start getting measurements put together and see if it would fit in my extended wheelbase 40...

• enough talk!!

 

[longbow]

Well, you got me curious. I remember Carcrafter on 4BTswaps clocked his starter on his built twin turbo ford and only used two of the starter bolts. I just went out and played with mine and it will work with only minor mods to one of the mounting lugs on the starter (the lug that is not used when you clock it upward). This will get you plenty of clearance and two mounting lugs will be plenty of holding power since this starter centers on a round boss on the flywheel housing and the mounting bolts are about .400" in size.

Also, if you want to go with a properly clocked Isuzu starter, here is a link to a thread on 4BTswaps that has a links to other info on starter compatibility. http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?15935-Isuzu-Starter-Info&highlight=starter

The Isuzu part # for the industrial starter with the proper clocking is 5811001081
If you do a google search for that part # you will come up with a few places that sell it for around $200

Hope this helps,

Don

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Don,

Thanks for the info, but no link?

I'm looking for the other thread about the starter issue, but no luck yet... Maybe I dreamed it? But I don't think so... I'll keep looking...

 

[longbow]

Ok, I fixed it.

Don

 

[twoturtlesracing]

Don,

Here is one mention of starter clearance- Post #690 in the "Isuzu 4BDT1 swap?!" thread:

hey guys... just thought i'd chime in here. Was at a local Cruiser shop, and they were working on an ultra clean FJ40 with a 4BD2t. Was a tight fit in the FJ40... but it fit nearly perfect. Lots of room between the axle and sump... only tricky thing they had to do, was find a different starter. They brought the original starter to a starter shop, and had one built that twisted the starter closer to the block.

Which I suppose would be another way around the issue...

 

[folsom50]

4BD1T in a 1982 Chevy Dually

Post #13 for the starter info in the above link.

The #6 cyl. on my 2f in my 40 has lost comp. so I'm going diesel.

I've got a 4bd2t sitting in the garage with a b-series h55/splitcase. The h55 was popping out of gear, so I got it cheap. I really don't know if I want to mess around fixing it. I've been thinking about a nv4500/splitcase. With my 3.7s and 33s, 60 mph gives 1650 rpm in OD with the nv4500. That sounds really low.
Am I going to enjoy super MPGs on the flat, but have to downshift on hills all the time?

 

[longbow]

Folsom,

That gearing should be just about perfect. I am running 3.70 gears with 35" tires and almost the exact ratio of overdrive as the NV4500 in my A440 auto. I don't have to downshift going up hills and my RPMs at 75mph are right at 2150. With 33s you will be slightly lower geared and will have no problems at all and will have a little more power in the hills compared to mine with slightly higher RPMs. Plus, the 40 weighs less than my 60, so it will have even more power for those hills!

Don

 

[folsom50]

Folsom,

That gearing should be just about perfect. I am running 3.70 gears with 35" tires and almost the exact ratio of overdrive as the NV4500 in my A440 auto. I don't have to downshift going up hills and my RPMs at 75mph are right at 2150. With 33s you will be slightly lower geared and will have no problems at all and will have a little more power in the hills compared to mine with slightly higher RPMs. Plus, the 40 weighs less than my 60, so it will have even more power for those hills!

Don

Thanks!

Are you finding these nv4500 rebuilds on flea-bay? I'll go back in and search, but I've done it in the past and it seems there are always a few things missing, like the shifter etc.

 

[twoturtlesracing]

So here is the adapter I mentioned above from GM to R150/R151...

• GM to Toyota V6 R150/151

I also have it from a good source that the gear sets of the 5 speeds Aisans from certain years of Heeps can be swapped out with the gears sets of the R150/151s if different ratios are so desired...