12HT into 40 swap questions

[Kmehr]

Gearing up for my above mentioned swap and I cannot seem to find a definitive answer on a couple of items:

1) I have a 24v motor and am swapping to 12v. Are there any interchangeable alternators from other series? I’m having a heck of a time finding one in the states and the idiotic tariff situation has apparently put an embargo on all of these coming in from Australia, which appaers to be the only place you can find them.

2) rubber engine isolators- I have hj61 mounts and hj47 mounts. It appears the hj47 are the critical engine side to use in the 40, but what about rubber isolators? Do I need the correct “pin” or can I reuse the isolators from my 1F that don’t have any sort of “index pin” like the 60 series mounts, just a center bolt.

 

[duncanrm]

Gearing up for my above mentioned swap and I cannot seem to find a definitive answer on a couple of items:

1) I have a 24v motor and am swapping to 12v. Are there any interchangeable alternators from other series? I’m having a heck of a time finding one in the states and the idiotic tariff situation has apparently put an embargo on all of these coming in from Australia, which appaers to be the only place you can find them.

2) rubber engine isolators- I have hj61 mounts and hj47 mounts. It appears the hj47 are the critical engine side to use in the 40, but what about rubber isolators? Do I need the correct “pin” or can I reuse the isolators from my 1F that don’t have any sort of “index pin” like the 60 series mounts, just a center bolt.

Alternators
HJ60, or HJ47 alternators will fit - it requires the vacuum pump on the back. If you fitted an electric vacuum pump you could fit up any standard 12V alternator that you can mcgyver into position.

Mounts
For a trouble free fitment you'll need the HJ47 or early HJ60 Engine Mounts Arms - these are the steel arms that bolt to the side of the engine and which then sit on the rubber mounts. To match these you'll need the HJ47 bell housing too. The rubber mounts from an HJ47/Early HJ60 will then be required. My 2H/12HT site has pictures of all of this - scroll down to "Mounts/Bellhousing".. Toyota Diesel Documentation - https://sites.google.com/view/toyotadiesel/home

If you use all HJ47/Early HJ60 stuff the mount positions on your chassis will be correct. If you choose to use "Late HJ60" mount arms and bell housing you're on your own.

What is the heritage of this 12HT, what is bolted to it in the way of mount arms now?

 

[Kmehr]

Alternators
HJ60, or HJ47 alternators will fit - it requires the vacuum pump on the back. If you fitted an electric vacuum pump you could fit up any standard 12V alternator that you can mcgyver into position.

Mounts
For a trouble free fitment you'll need the HJ47 or early HJ60 Engine Mounts Arms - these are the steel arms that bolt to the side of the engine and which then sit on the rubber mounts. To match these you'll need the HJ47 bell housing too. The rubber mounts from an HJ47/Early HJ60 will then be required. My 2H/12HT site has pictures of all of this - scroll down to "Mounts/Bellhousing".. Toyota Diesel Documentation - https://sites.google.com/view/toyotadiesel/home

If you use all HJ47/Early HJ60 stuff the mount positions on your chassis will be correct. If you choose to use "Late HJ60" mount arms and bell housing you're on your own.

What is the heritage of this 12HT, what is bolted to it in the way of mount arms now?

I believe my motor is out of an hj61, and is a 1986 block. I do have a set of the hj47 block arms, so think I’m set there, just more curious what I need engine isolator wise. I am planning to reuse the HJ61 bellhousing and fabricate a trans crossmember in lieu of the bellhousing mounts.

That’s what I was afraid of on the alternator. I’m trying to Mcguiver as little as possible on this install, so guess I’ll need to keep the hunt up. Was hooping there was another series that could be fitted easily.

Thanks!

 

[duncanrm]

I am planning to reuse the HJ61 bellhousing and fabricate a trans crossmember in lieu of the bellhousing mounts.

Things may be a little skewed with that combination of bellhousing and engine mount arms.. the HJ61 bell housing "clocks" the transmission a little, I guess with a customised cross member it will all work.

With regards to the rubber mounts, I would be very surprised if you cant find the correct ones (early HJ60s will work) . If you can make the 1F ones work there's no downside but are they near new?

(I re-read your original post and you covered off some of what I said - sorry about that.)

 

[Kmehr]

Things may be a little skewed with that combination of bellhousing and engine mount arms.. the HJ61 bell housing "clocks" the transmission a little, I guess with a customised cross member it will all work.

With regards to the rubber mounts, I would be very surprised if you cant find the correct ones (early HJ60s will work) . If you can make the 1F ones work there's no downside but are they near new?

(I re-read your original post and you covered off some of what I said - sorry about that.)

all good! I was actually hoping you'd be the one to weigh in as you're the undoubted authority in this area.

My engine isolators on my current motor are about a month old, so brand new! They're the updated style that looks very similar to the HJ61 in thickness, though the HJs are a bit broader it looks like.

 

[duncanrm]

all good! I was actually hoping you'd be the one to weigh in as you're the undoubted authority in this area.

My engine isolators on my current motor are about a month old, so brand new! They're the updated style that looks very similar to the HJ61 in thickness, though the HJs are a bit broader it looks like.

I'd really make an effort to find the early HJ60 ones if you can.. I just took a look at some photos.. I think the F mounts have an offset top and bottom pin - whilst the 2H mounts are nearly straight through. With the reduced height of the F mounts you may also introduce some challenges in your radiator shroud.

With your mismatched bellhousing/engine arms - the introduction of another mismatch in the mounts just adds even more uncertainty and misalignment in everything.

 

[Greek Cruiserhead]

I'd really make an effort to find the early HJ60 ones if you can.. I just took a look at some photos.. I think the F mounts have an offset top and bottom pin - whilst the 2H mounts are nearly straight through. With the reduced height of the F mounts you may also introduce some challenges in your radiator shroud.

With your mismatched bellhousing/engine arms - the introduction of another mismatch in the mounts just adds even more uncertainty and misalignment in everything.

Followed @duncanrm suggestions and "made the effort" to find all the early HJ60 stuff.
Not bludy easy here in Europe, but been successful at he end. Now I can say that I have everything for my future 2H swap in my BJ45 pickup.
Thank you mate and greetings from Greece!

 

[Kmehr]

Couple more questions-

The rear of my block has three heater hoses, but I’ve only got an inlet and outlet from the heater core on my truck. Which do I cap?

Next- there are about a million vacuum lines on my motor- I’m planning an accumulater tank for brakes, and as I understand the shutoff is accomplished via vacuum, is there anything else I’d need? Or can I start eliminating lines?

 

[duncanrm]

• You can just plug up one of those coolant outlets with a brass fitting, its for a 60 series with a rear heater.
• With regards to the vacuum lines the following two images will be useful:
  • Image 1
  • Image 2

The 12HT is looking good! If you havent already, consider changing the front and rear main seals (use genuine) and the spigot bearing, get the flywheel refaced and change the input seal on the transmission before you button it all back up.

I have a variety of 2H/12HT related stuff at my Toyota Diesel site here: Duncan's Toyota Diesel Documentation - https://sites.google.com/view/toyotadiesel/home

 

[Kmehr]

• You can just plug up one of those coolant outlets with a brass fitting, its for a 60 series with a rear heater.
• With regards to the vacuum lines the following two images will be useful:
  • Image 1
  • Image 2

The 12HT is looking good! If you havent already, consider changing the front and rear main seals (use genuine) and the spigot bearing, get the flywheel refaced and change the input seal on the transmission before you button it all back up.

I have a variety of 2H/12HT related stuff at my Toyota Diesel site here: Duncan's Toyota Diesel Documentation - https://sites.google.com/view/toyotadiesel/home

Perfect! I replaced the rear main seal and will do so on the input of my transmission. I had an h55 redone by valley hybrids that I was going to use, but now that this is going in my troopy and not my 40, I’m going to stick with the h41. Don’t think overdrive really means that much to me. I’ll put the h55 in my 40 that still has the 3spd. I hate the 3spd!

Thanks for the resources Duncan! I always forget you have that super informative website!

 

[duncanrm]

I’m going to stick with the h41. Don’t think overdrive really means that much to me. I’ll put the h55 in my 40 that still has the 3spd. I hate the 3spd!

Good choice on the H41. My own HJ47 Troopy has the H41 and I see zero need for the 5 speed upgrade. Its an overrated upgrade. I'm perfectly happy with the 4 speed. My HJ60 has the H55F and I rarely get into fifth, its a weak gear and I really only use it on a flat road at > 100kph. The H41/2H combination works so well, the H55F/2H not so much.

 

[Kmehr]

Good choice on the H41. My own HJ47 Troopy has the H41 and I see zero need for the 5 speed upgrade. Its an overrated upgrade. I'm perfectly happy with the 4 speed. My HJ60 has the H55F and I rarely get into fifth, its a weak gear and I really only use it on a flat road at > 100kph. The H41/2H combination works so well, the H55F/2H not so much.

Yeah with my current 2F in the troopy, it’s rare I can ever even get into 4th on a flat road! I’m so glad to not have to be making a new crossmember and shortening driveshafts and even clearancing my brand new under cab fuel tank. Now I will say I wish reverse was on the other side. I’m probably going to have to bend my shift cane away from my leg a bit. With my foot on the brake, shifting into reverse pins my thigh to the steering wheel!

 

[duncanrm]

With my foot on the brake, shifting into reverse pins my thigh to the steering wheel!

Less than optimal! Not a struggle I have in my Right Hand Drive Troopy!

 

[Kmehr]

Any one with a 12HT in a 40 want to post up some photos of their exhaust? Specifically interested in seeing what folks have done for a downpipe.

 

[Kmehr]

Also interested in what folks have done for a throttle cable. I found @Michael B used a Lokar universal but I wish it had more photos.

My motor is in by the way, now just all the tedious small stuff!

 

[Kmehr]

Another question I can’t seem to find an answer to- my motor is a 24v but I’ve put a 12v alternator and starter on it. The intake grid heater however is still 24v. Can I run 12v to it and it work? I understand running 24v to a 12v would likely melt it, but the other way around, is that ok? Would it be so weak it wouldn’t be worth it? I live where it gets pretty cold, so I’d definitely like to have it working.

 

[Kmehr]

@duncanrm here are some more photos you might add to the collection. I’m using a newer (4 bolt?) power steering pump. Had to clearance the motor mount a tad and while you can see that a banjo fitting will fit and seat, I’m going to change out to a 90 degree AN adapter because I think the mount wil touch the fatter banjo when the motor gets to shaking.

 

[Kmehr]

I grafted the rear power steering mount ear from th HJ61 mount onto the HJ47 mount, but the front holds it really solidly on its own that I don’t know that it’s actually necessary.

 

[samc2447]

I did this exact swap in my own 40 a couple years ago using the mounts and information from @duncanrm website. Thanks for those Duncan.

I did however decide to cut the frame mounts to raise them slightly higher and move them back to gain a bit of clearance between the front diff and PS pump. I trimmed the motor mount you show interfering above.

For the radiator, I had a local radiator shop move the lower inlet and it comes out at about 45deg. and closer to the frame rail. This allowed me to find a suitable hose at my local auto parts store that easily went around the PS pulley. I made some pretty significant changes to the radiator support to allow the new location of the lower inlet.

 

[Kmehr]

Just fyi- McKinnon cruisers appears to be making repop hj47 block mounts

HJ47 Block Mounts

HJ47 block mounts to suit fitment of 2H/ 12HT into 40 series chassis’s (non power steering) Kit to come bare steel

www.mckinnonscruisers.com