So you're saying I should quit being lazy and build a shroud then.
What have you been doing with your Toyota? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter JohnnyOshow22
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JohnnyOshow22
KK0TEQ
- Thread starter
- #782
Yes! It will help I promise!
on the radiator we put in sam's pu the shroud has a square cut out of each corner with a rubber flap on the engine side. at low speed it keeps the flaps pulled tight but at highway speed they open up and let more air thru. ingenious
I agree, Toyota’s all come with shrouds for a reason. I can’t think of a true adverse affect even at speed. If you add a simple shroud I bet you’re good to go.
Is there no off the shelf aftermarket version? I would think with how many 40s have had a SBC swap their might be a bolt in? Anyhow, I think that is the easiest way to move forward.
JohnnyOshow22
KK0TEQ
- Thread starter
- #787
There's a few off the shelf options that bolt right up to a stock 40 radiator. Most of it depends on spacing and location of a mechanical fan which is almost always different with swapped 40's. If your going to run electric fans there's a few options there as well for a 16" fan + shroud built already. @pigmony is it mechanical or electrical at the moment?
It's currently mechanical. If I can get it work with the mechanical fan and a shroud, then I'd prefer to keep it that way. No reason to add complexity if it isn't needed. It's a clutch-less, large diameter, aftermarket fan, so I doubt any of the off the shelf options would work without modification. Often times it's easier to just build from scratch rather than try to make something work.
bagochips76
SILVER Star
Centered left to right, but below centerline top to bottom. @elkun1 had previously recommended that I drop the radiator 1-2 inches, which makes logical sense to me but also looks like a significant fabrication job that I'm hoping not to need to do.
bagochips76
SILVER Star
Is there a kit you recommend or is retrofitting the '95 Taurus LS fan with a thermostat relay still the recommended DIY method?
After chatting with @JohnnyOshow22 at the meeting last night I went ahead and ordered the shroud and fan kit from Champion Radiators that goes specifically with my radiator. I should have just ordered it all together right from the start, but hindsight is 20/20. With luck, that'll be the end of my low-speed cooling issues.
bagochips76
SILVER Star
What Johnny told you is the way to go.
Hope so. If Fedex tracking can be trusted, I'll be installing on Saturday. But we all know that shipping to Bozeman is never on time, so sometime in the next 3-14 days.
hopefully
Was the back side down to B Canyon clear? Thinking about taking the 40, two kids, a dog, and a cooler today
I have not done the pass yet.
Sorry I missed this. It was a busy weekend. Yes, it was totally clear, but you already know that.Was the back side down to B Canyon clear? Thinking about taking the 40, two kids, a dog, and a cooler today
I ordered a Ledfoot Racing Aluminum Fan Shroud, a SPAL 16” High Performance -2049 electric fan, and a Thermostat/Relay Kit from Champion Radiators. It’s described on the website as being a direct fit to the radiator that I ordered from the same place previously. Fedex actually delivered it on time, which I found to be pretty amazing. I had a full Saturday afternoon to install it. Should be easy.
I started out by removing the mechanical fan and spacer from the water pump. I realized immediately that I would need shorter bolts to keep the pulley on the water pump which means a trip to the hardware store. So, rather than spend all day making trips back and forth to the hardware store, I laid everything out on my bench and looked over the engine compartment to figure out what else I would need. The list came out to the 4 water pump bolts and 4 bolts and lock nuts to attach the fan to the shroud. Curiously, the Thermostat/Relay Kit did not include a thermostat switch, but no worries because I figured I’d just tie into the temp sender on the side of the block. (More on this later.) I made my hardware store run and got my parts. All is good.
I mount the fan on the shroud then unbolt the radiator from the core support. I go to mount the shroud and fan but I’m having some trouble fitting it all between the water pump, radiator, core support braces, and upper radiator hose. No worries. I remove the fan from the shroud and mount the shroud first, figuring I’ll just fish the fan in next, and this is where things start to go poorly. The fan doesn’t fit between the shroud and the water pump. It’s not even close. Like, inch and a half of interference.
Whoever did the engine swap on my vehicle positioned the engine quite far forward. This was probably done to accommodate the length of the transmission and transfer case and allow for the longest rear driveshaft possible. It would have also put the mechanical fan relatively close to the radiator, which is probably why there was no fan shroud. It worked “well enough” for driving around, even though it was totally inadequate for off road driving. What it means for me though is that there isn’t enough room between the engine and the radiator for an electric fan and shroud. I put a straight edge on the back face of the shroud and measured to the closest part of the water pump: 1-7/8”. SPAL doesn’t make a 16” fan that thin. So I’m feeling pretty defeated. I started looking into GM short-shaft water pumps, which would gain me about 1-5/8”, but would require a complete rework of the accessory drive. I pulled everything back out of the truck and set it on the bench, then I just stared at the empty space in the engine bay for a few minutes and I got an idea.
I made a trip to the auto parts store and bought a plastic zip rod fan/cooler mounting kit. These are the plastic rods that are used for mounting transmission coolers and such to the radiator. I used these zip rods to mount my fan directly to the radiator without a shroud. Then I wired it up following the instructions in the kit. Like I mentioned earlier, the kit did not include the thermostat switch, but I was able to splice into the line going to my temp gauge. I tidied up the wiring a bit, started the engine, and...the fan immediately came on. Hmm. That shouldn’t happen. Not until the engine gets warm. Oh. Right. The temperature sender isn’t a switch. It gives a signal all the time. Which is probably why I can hear my fan relay clicking every couple seconds. I definitely need to find a thermostat switch, but the fan works.
I unplugged the temp sender and let the engine warm up without the fan on. When I plugged it back in, the fan came on and the relay stopped clicking every couple seconds. I assume this is because the sender is allowing more current through at the higher temperature and this is enough to hold the relay closed. The fan was able to keep the temperature at the first mark on the gauge on the dash, which is where it tends to run at highway speeds on warm days. Normally it would go beyond the second mark on the gauge when left idling for more than five minutes. It was a pretty hot day, so I think this test was a success.
On Sunday, I tried to find a thermostat switch at the auto part stores in town. I didn’t have any luck. I found one on Amazon and placed an order. My “2-day Prime Shipping” is going to take 5 days to get here, assuming the shipping is on time. So, with some luck, I’ll be able to properly test the system next weekend. I also want to put in a switch to turn the fan off for water crossing or if it’s too loud at a drive thru, so I have some time to work on that before the thermostat switch arrives.
My thermostat switch arrived on time. It didn't include the thread adapter that it was described as coming with, so another trip to town. I installed the adapter and the switch into a port in the intake manifold between the thermostat and the line that runs to the heater using some teflon tape to make sure everything was sealed up properly. Then I drove out towards Amsterdam to build up some heat and...the fan never kicked on. I pulled over and checked on things a couple times, and eventually pulled the wire off the switch to touch it directly to ground, figuring that the teflon tape was insulating the switch from grounding to the engine. (That's how I tested my wiring before, and it worked at that time.) No fan. So I touch the wire to the positive battery terminal and it immediately trips the relay and I have a fan.
I really hate wiring and problems like this are why. I think I have multiple problems:
1) The teflon tape is insulating the thermostat switch and the thread adapter from making a ground to the engine. I'll get some Permatex copper sealant tonight and verify continuity with a multimeter. If there is a better product than the Permatex copper sealant, please let me know.
2) I think (have not verified yet) that the key-on circuit that I tapped into to provide 12 volts for the triggering side of the fan relay may be a timed circuit? Maybe an alternator exciter? Any ideas here?
3) Touching the ground wire to the negative battery terminal did not trip the relay, but touching it to the positive battery terminal did. This is opposite of how it worked when I tested it in the driveway before taking it out for a road test. If the circuit I tapped into to provide 12 volts is a timed circuit there's probably a timer switch somewhere. That timer switch would break the circuit once it timed out. So how did touching the ground wire to the positive battery terminal make a complete circuit?
4) I hate wiring.
Any help you all can give me would be super appreciated. My wife is taking me out for dinner tonight to celebrate my last day of work at the current job and I'm volunteering with Montana Search Dogs this Saturday up in Hyalite. So I probably wont be able to work on the 40 much, if at all, until Saturday afternoon/evening.
EDIT:
Lets assume for a moment that I did find a timed circuit. Do those circuits generally go to ground once the timer trips? The reason I ask is that putting the ground wire to the positive battery terminal shouldn't have tripped the relay unless the other side of that circuit had a path to ground.
Right? Or am I totally in the weeds here?
Update:
The fan works. The switch works. I still hate wiring. It's important to periodically change the batteries in your multimeter. Not all crimp connectors are created equally. The $40 wiring pliers are worth every penny.
I really hate wiring and problems like this are why. I think I have multiple problems:
1) The teflon tape is insulating the thermostat switch and the thread adapter from making a ground to the engine. I'll get some Permatex copper sealant tonight and verify continuity with a multimeter. If there is a better product than the Permatex copper sealant, please let me know.
2) I think (have not verified yet) that the key-on circuit that I tapped into to provide 12 volts for the triggering side of the fan relay may be a timed circuit? Maybe an alternator exciter? Any ideas here?
3) Touching the ground wire to the negative battery terminal did not trip the relay, but touching it to the positive battery terminal did. This is opposite of how it worked when I tested it in the driveway before taking it out for a road test. If the circuit I tapped into to provide 12 volts is a timed circuit there's probably a timer switch somewhere. That timer switch would break the circuit once it timed out. So how did touching the ground wire to the positive battery terminal make a complete circuit?
4) I hate wiring.
Any help you all can give me would be super appreciated. My wife is taking me out for dinner tonight to celebrate my last day of work at the current job and I'm volunteering with Montana Search Dogs this Saturday up in Hyalite. So I probably wont be able to work on the 40 much, if at all, until Saturday afternoon/evening.
EDIT:
Lets assume for a moment that I did find a timed circuit. Do those circuits generally go to ground once the timer trips? The reason I ask is that putting the ground wire to the positive battery terminal shouldn't have tripped the relay unless the other side of that circuit had a path to ground.
Right? Or am I totally in the weeds here?
Update:
The fan works. The switch works. I still hate wiring. It's important to periodically change the batteries in your multimeter. Not all crimp connectors are created equally. The $40 wiring pliers are worth every penny.
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