What have I done?? Snapped axle shaft? (1 Viewer)

[DopeyDevonBey]

Hi All,
Firstly, thanks so much to this forum and all the members for the info available to clueless people like me. I've only owned my BJ42 for a few months and I've already used lots of useful info and I'd be lost without it. Right, I've got a 1982 BJ42 imported to the UK from France. Last week I used it to pull my twin axle trailer with about 1 ton or just under of firewood on board, so total load of around 1 1/2 tons. Safe to say the truck was not pleased towing it up any incline but the big problem was a tight reverse up my steep driveway. Once I'd got myself straight at the bottom, I engaged the front lockers and used the low box to push the trailer up, and at some point I thought I heard a bang of something metallic but put it down to something on the trailer, like the brake release or even something sliding on the trailer, which it could well have been. I carried on and backed the trailer into the garage, unhooked and pulled forwards. No unusual sounds. Next day i come out and see a pool of fluid sitting in the rear wheel and running down the tyre, I presumed i had a leaking brake cylinder to deal with. I took the wheel off today and found that the leak is from the hub ( i'm no mechanic so excuse my simplicity) if I look down the back of the hub it's covered in fluid. I then remembered the noise and thought I'd snapped a rear shaft and somehow the oil seal got mangled while that happened, but if I rotate the hub the rear prop shaft spins easily with no crunchy sounds. Is it likely that it's just the oil seal that has gone and would straining to push the trailer cause that to happen? I guess I have to take the shaft out to do the seal and will inspect then, but I'm anxious to know if I've possibly done more expensive damage. I think it's a semi floating axle looking at the images in the service manual. Thanks in advance for any help. cheers Jim

 

[SteveH]

You're going to have to tear it down anyway, to inspect and replace. Get the FSM and/or start tearing it down and posting photos here. If there is a tight circle of bolts in the middle of a projecting hub body (like the front hubs) then you have a full floater.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

You're going to have to tear it down anyway, to inspect and replace. Get the FSM and/or start tearing it down and posting photos here. If there is a tight circle of bolts in the middle of a projecting hub body (like the front hubs) then you have a full floater.

Thanks for the reply Steve. I've ordered some seals for the hub and the rear diff and there's also a lot of movement in the rear UJ, so ordered bearings for that, then I can do it all at the same time. Really hoping it's just the seals. Thanks for confirming what I thought....it has a semi floating axle. Cheers

 

[Cruiserdrew]

With a semi-float, the axle walks out a bit and then no longer seals. If you persist, it will walk all the way out because there's nothing to hold it in. But you're going to have to check it all out. As a test, jack up the leaking side and try to pull the axle shaft out. If it comes out, it's broken.

I'd check your birfields too, because the recipe to break those is reverse, lockers, back up hill.

Good luck, we've all broken a semi-float rear axle. It isn't a huge deal.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

With a semi-float, the axle walks out a bit and then no longer seals. If you persist, it will walk all the way out because there's nothing to hold it in. But you're going to have to check it all out. As a test, jack up the leaking side and try to pull the axle shaft out. If it comes out, it's broken.

I'd check your birfields too, because the recipe to break those is reverse, lockers, back up hill.

Good luck, we've all broken a semi-float rear axle. It isn't a huge deal.

Thanks Cruiserdrew. I've given it a good yank and it doesn't seem to want to come out, so fingers crossed! I started to set about it earlier but was immediately stumped by the 24 mm diff drain plug! Will pick up a socket tomorrow.
Is there an easy way to check the birfields without disassembling?. The knuckle seals were just done so it's fairly clean in that area, it all looks ok from the outside, but guess that doesn't mean anything?? If I jack the front and try to spin the wheels by hand would that tell me?
When you say it's a recipe to break them, do you mean under average load it's risky too? Safe to say I won't be pushing a loaded trailer up the driveway with it again, but I always reverse up the drive, and when there's no trailer and just a few tools in the back I need the front lockers to stop rear wheel spin tearing up the loose stone driveway.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Reversing with stock Birfs even unlocked is risky! Get some proper RCV 30 spline axles and birfs and forget about the problem. Seriously the RCV thing almost permanently solves the front end problem.

It is likely you did break a rear. There would be no other reason for it to suddenly leak. If the brakes are set, or ebrake on, you won't be able to pull it off, but I think you are going to have to do some real diagnostics to figure it out. When you do pull it apart, it's a good time to replace the rear bearings and seals, maybe tighten up your carrier bearings and replace the pinion seal. Check this

You have an old truck. Many things are likely at the wear limit. Just the way it is.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

Reversing with stock Birfs even unlocked is risky! Get some proper RCV 30 spline axles and birfs and forget about the problem. Seriously the RCV thing almost permanently solves the front end problem.

It is likely you did break a rear. There would be no other reason for it to suddenly leak. If the brakes are set, or ebrake on, you won't be able to pull it off, but I think you are going to have to do some real diagnostics to figure it out. When you do pull it apart, it's a good time to replace the rear bearings and seals, maybe tighten up your carrier bearings and replace the pinion seal. Check this

You have an old truck. Many things are likely at the wear limit. Just the way it is.

Thanks again. Some straight talking there!. I've got this truck to keep things simple because I took some big cost hits on my 120 series LC with repairs and corrosion issues before finally selling her on. It left me with just enough to get the BJ42 and make it just about roadworthy, so things are now very tight! I'm hoping damage is minimal but as you say i'll only find out by pulling it all apart. The brakes were off and gear in neutral when I tried to pull it but time will tell! Thanks for the link to the carrier bearings adjustment, looks easier than working to the tolerances detailed in the FSM.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

Pleased to say, I pulled out the axle in one piece! . I need to borrow a puller to get it out, but I can't see any damage to the axle shaft seal in the hub, I guess it leaked around the outside rather than against the axle? I've got one ordered anyway but is there a way it could have just come unseated?
Since I've been lucky with this, i'm crossing everything that the front end is ok too.
I think I've convinced my wife to change her rav 4 for a strong towing vehicle so I won't ever need to put the BJ through such punishment again!

 

[John McVicker]

Depends. Tell us the steps you did to actually pull your axle shaft out.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

I removed the pinion shaft and spacer, went around to the hub, pushed it in, heard a 'plink'....got back under to the diff and the shaft lock had fallen into the bottom of the housing, went back round and carefully drew out the axle, keeping it straight.

 

[John McVicker]

Ok then, I think you are good then.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Yes-I see this as good news. Still. why the leak? Is the bearing ok?

You're going to have to check the birfs too.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

Thanks Andrew and John, Yes, I'm relieved but wondered why it leaked too. The bearing feels ok from what I could tell, smooth running all round. Hopefully there's a tell tale sign when I take it out cos I don't want to wonder what happened.
Once I've done the rear end I'll jack the front and hope there's no horrible birf crunching sounds when I spin the wheels

 

[John McVicker]

Take a close look at the shaft at the wheel end. It need to be nice and smooth, if not it can do damage to the axle seal and cause it to leak.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

Its smooth as a smooth thing.
What do you all do for bearing and seal pullers? The cheap fleabay ones either don't work for inner sleeve bearings or don't go wide enough to pull the 46 mm inner diameter one in the hub. I don't want to spend the sort of money a pro would but it'd be handy to have one as there's many seals and bearings to do down the line. I might be able to borrow one, but the favours asked of my neighbour mechanic are quickly mounting up!

 

[A10Driver]

Its smooth as a smooth thing.
What do you all do for bearing and seal pullers? The cheap fleabay ones either don't work for inner sleeve bearings or don't go wide enough to pull the 46 mm inner diameter one in the hub. I don't want to spend the sort of money a pro would but it'd be handy to have one as there's many seals and bearings to do down the line. I might be able to borrow one, but the favours asked of my neighbour mechanic are quickly mounting up!

You can use a rod and push it all the way through the housing to knock the far side out. I have done it this way a few times, but getting a good puller is better answer. Autozone has pullers that work (sometimes) if you don't want to buy one. Just take your new bearings in so you can get the correct size puller

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

All sorted. Thanks for the help from everyone. I didn't tackle anything but the seal as I needed the truck back on the road for now but all went well. I gingerly rolled the truck down the driveway and no noises coming from the front end at all, so fired her up and did a sort test run around the block. No fluid leaks or nasty sounds. Think I got lucky.
During this little repair I think I've come to terms with the fact that as much as I really love this truck, I cannot afford the time to spend fixing tired parts right now. I'll start another thread asking what price you guys on the other side of the pond think it'll fetch if I export it. LHD has not been a problem getting used to at all over here, but they do tend to be worth less. Cheers

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Just hang on to it. Do what everyone here does and get a cheap beater car to drive most of the time. Something like a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. Then cruiser projects can be done at a slower pace.

 

[DopeyDevonBey]

Just hang on to it. Do what everyone here does and get a cheap beater car to drive most of the time. Something like a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla. Then cruiser projects can be done at a slower pace.

I'd love to, I really would, but I need a truck to tow the trailer of sawmill offcuts they allow us to clear once a month to run our wood boiler heating system. It's a 12 foot flat bed trailer and we collect around a ton or just over of dry firewood each time at a very cheap rate as long as we clear it all when they ask. I thought if I got a 42 it would be ok with the trailer but even if I could get a bit more power out of it with a tune up it's going to really punish it. I smelt clutch when towing up even a slight incline and then the fiasco getting up the driveway... That was always the plan, a cheap to keep truck (it's nearly road test and tax exempt over here) which I can fix and a runabout car for work and daily stuff. The reality is I'd end up with 3 vehicles if I keep the 42 as I'd need a stronger towing truck and a car in case i'm working further away and don't want the fuel cost of running a big truck. There are other factors such as a house to finish renovating and plans for a new build soon, I think it's just not the right time. Having it back on the road makes it much harder to be certain that's what I should do though. Such fun trucks.